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Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

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  • Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

    Originally posted by candyapple View Post
    Ich vorne in England, nicht deuchland ... did I get that right :D
    well, "vorne" means "in front"

    most likely, you meant "Ich wohne" ( I live). You're studying German ?

    Comment


    • Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

      Originally posted by ExNihilo View Post
      At some point you have to say that the Quran must be capable of being understood properly in other languages or something is very wrong.
      I basically agree. This idea of God speaking to us in Arabic contradicts the universality of religious message.

      Actually, the Quran is transmitted in several slightly different "recitations", which accommodate for dialectal variants of Arabic (seven+three "qiraat", each in two "riwayat" - transmissions ; making for a total of 20 slightly different texts)

      It would have been much more logical, instead of accommodating 20 slightly different brands of Arabic, to transmit also in Greek, Latin, Coptic, Chinese, Hindi, Maya, Nahuatl etc etc; better still, in all languages and dialects.

      How is the truth to "clearly stand out from error", if we don't have access to the "authentic" message ?

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      • Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

        Originally posted by olrac View Post
        I basically agree. This idea of God speaking to us in Arabic contradicts the universality of religious message.

        Actually, the Quran is transmitted in several slightly different "recitations", which accommodate for dialectal variants of Arabic (seven+three "qiraat", each in two "riwayat" - transmissions ; making for a total of 20 slightly different texts)

        It would have been much more logical, instead of accommodating 20 slightly different brands of Arabic, to transmit also in Greek, Latin, Coptic, Chinese, Hindi, Maya, Nahuatl etc etc; better still, in all languages and dialects.

        How is the truth to "clearly stand out from error", if we don't have access to the "authentic" message ?
        Actually the foreignness of Arabic gives it an aura of "language of Allah"

        Many Muslims of other nations are eager to learn Arabic and take it a matter of pride in reciting Quran

        Muslims in general don't prefer translations, even those who are newly converting
        Not knowing what one doesn't know will lead to difficulty

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        • Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

          Originally posted by olrac View Post
          I basically agree. This idea of God speaking to us in Arabic contradicts the universality of religious message.

          Actually, the Quran is transmitted in several slightly different "recitations", which accommodate for dialectal variants of Arabic (seven+three "qiraat", each in two "riwayat" - transmissions ; making for a total of 20 slightly different texts)

          It would have been much more logical, instead of accommodating 20 slightly different brands of Arabic, to transmit also in Greek, Latin, Coptic, Chinese, Hindi, Maya, Nahuatl etc etc; better still, in all languages and dialects.

          How is the truth to "clearly stand out from error", if we don't have access to the "authentic" message ?
          Put in the effort to learn. One of the miracles of Quran is its easy to grasp.
          "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

          "Nothing protects the rights of the minority like the tyranny of the majority"

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          • Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

            Originally posted by olrac View Post
            well, "vorne" means "in front"

            most likely, you meant "Ich wohne" ( I live). You're studying German ?
            Lol yeh I got the spelling wrong hehe... I did for gcse :)
            "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

            "Nothing protects the rights of the minority like the tyranny of the majority"

            Comment


            • Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

              Originally posted by olrac View Post
              e.g. Galen's medicine manuals and Erathostenes' calculations about the spherical Earth's dimensions etc have been available for centuries.

              In fact, Galen's manuals circulated widely in the Middle East (they were translated first into Syriac, then into Arabic - mostly by Nestorian Christians - and then into Latin).

              What is this story about "duplication of records" ? any more precise information about that ?
              So why did Greeks followed Claudius Ptolemy's theory untill 9th century , confused themselves. confused the Christians who sadly believed him distorted their books to the wrong Geocentric theory thinking that it was true & scientific just to make the holy book appear more scientific And imprisoned Sir Galileo{ who supported the correct Heliocentric Theory} to Suppress the fact that they had copied from the Greeks, which was a 100% erroneous Theory )

              So why they did not follow Aristarchus of Samos 's correct correct Heliocentric Theory ?

              Its like saying we had a car running on Petrol during 200 BC but we used only the Bullock cart untill the 900 AD . lol

              Originally posted by olrac View Post
              What is this story about "duplication of records" ? any more precise information about that ?
              There are many history books (from Greek etc) saying Prophet Muhammad(saw) did not exit or Mecca did not exist .(lol) so do you believe them well ? liars. they can create any history ant time and destroy history as well. I ve written a post about 'Distorted history' answering to Panthere tigiris with VERY CLEAR PROOF how anti muslims create or destroy records. Ibn sabah , the founder of Shia a hypocrite Jew is one of many examples of duplication of records to divide Muslim ummah. A great muslim commented ' we have won many wars against the book of the scripture (jews & christ) but never could win a war with them , thats the war of TREACHERY ''
              My sect - No Sect

              My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

              Just a Muslim

              Comment


              • Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

                hello talibilm

                I'll try to answer your questions - in a very concise manner. Excuse therefore my historical shortcuts. What follows is a hatchet job.
                Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                So why did Greeks followed Claudius Ptolemy's theory untill 9th century , confused themselves. confused the Christians who sadly believed him distorted their books to the wrong Geocentric theory thinking that it was true & scientific just to make the holy book appear more scientific And imprisoned Sir Galileo{ who supported the correct Heliocentric Theory} to Suppress the fact that they had copied from the Greeks, which was a 100% erroneous Theory )
                why did the ancient Greeks follow the geocentric model (Ptolemy) instead of the heliocentric model (Aristarchus) ? well, most surely not because they wanted to support the Bible - in the 3rd century BC there were no Christians in Greece (and anywhere else, for that matter) and the Jews did not exert any particular influence on classical Greek culture - not until Hellenistic times, at least - and then more so in centers such as Alexandria, Antioch, Cyrene etc than in Greece proper.

                As to the "Sir Galileo" controversy (Sir ? he wasn't a baronet, as far as I know), it took place when the heliocentric theory had already been hotly contested (by Copernicus, Kepler). Galileo however had the misfortune of living in Italy, where the Catholic Church wielded a very strong power, and still stuck to Aristotelian science (as reinterpreted by Thomas Aquinas). It is however not historically correct to speak of "Christianity" as if there ever was some sort of united Christian authority or political/cultural programme. By Galileo's time, not only were Western and Eastern Chritianity at odds with each other, but Protestant Churches of all shapes and sizes were flourishing, most of them much more open to scentific research and modernity

                Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                So why they did not follow Aristarchus of Samos 's correct correct Heliocentric Theory ?
                who knows ? my guess would be that the geocentric theory prevailed because the proof given by Aristarchus for heliocentrism was not considered as sound enough - and, most surely, Aristotle's influence played a huge role. In fact, Aristotle's authority on scientic matters was not contested in Europe until the Renaissance - and Aristotle had supported geocentrism
                Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                There are many history books (from Greek etc) saying Prophet Muhammad(saw) did not exit or Mecca did not exist .(lol) so do you believe them well ?
                it's rather like the opposite. We have some Greek texts from the first century hijra which are actually the first written records about Muhammad (including some fragments apparently written within 10 years of Muhammad's death). These Greek (but also Coptic, Armenian, Syriac texts) pre-date the oldest hadith collections and sirahs by quite a few decades.

                The theory that Muhammad never existed, and that Islam did not develop in Mecca, is a rather recent development, and has nothing to do with Greeks. If you are interested, you could google the names of some University Professors who have popularised this theory (Wansbrough, Crone, Cook, Puin, Ohlig, Nevo etc); it was developed, mostly, after 1975 at SOAS (London) and University of Saarbrucken (Germany)
                Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                liars. they can create any history ant time and destroy history as well. I ve written a post about 'Distorted history' answering to Panthere tigiris with VERY CLEAR PROOF how anti muslims create or destroy records.
                the non-existence of Muhammad theory has not become mainstream. It remains a minority view. I am not aware however of any book fabricated by them. It is, by now, very difficult to popularise an outright forgery of an ancient text in academia - at best, you can try to distort interpretations, but that's a different story
                Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                Ibn sabah , the founder of Shia a hypocrite Jew is one of many examples of duplication of records to divide Muslim ummah. A great muslim commented ' we have won many wars against the book of the scripture (jews & christ) but never could win a war with them , thats the war of TREACHERY ''
                interesting. I'll have a look at this Ibn Sabah guy

                thank you for your post

                Comment


                • Re: Why doesn't God deliver the same revelation of Himself to all nations?

                  Originally posted by candyapple View Post
                  Lol yeh I got the spelling wrong hehe... I did for gcse :)
                  I had a German grandmother - she taught me German. There is an amazing literature in German (my favourite : Franz Kafka)

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