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Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

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    #31
    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

    Originally posted by FAREED1952 View Post
    The 'catching away' theory is something Paul devised not Jesus (as). I also answered your 'questions' in another post.
    Jesus said one will be taken and the other left

    Comment


      #32
      Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

      Originally posted by AJ4u View Post
      You must have not read what I wrote carefully. The prophet and king David said he was sinful at birth in sin he was conceived. No one has a natural inclination toward God. We are natural rebellious. God transforms us as we learn obedience and as proverbs state there is no purposes established without time and judgment
      It is not that we are born with out doing sin. It is that we are born with a inclination toward Allah. When we sin we turn to him and ask him to forgive us and he does Inshallah.

      Comment


        #33
        Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

        Originally posted by Witwoa View Post
        It is not that we are born with out doing sin. It is that we are born with a inclination toward Allah. When we sin we turn to him and ask him to forgive us and he does Inshallah.
        Then why do people who were never Muslims say they reverted to Islam from other religions?

        Comment


          #34
          Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

          Originally posted by AJ4u View Post
          Then why do people who were never Muslims say they reverted to Islam from other religions?
          Because as a baby we are born summited to Allah and our parents or things around us pull us away from his guidance.
          But as a muslims we sin. It is simple we ask god to forgive us. That's it. You will sin you ask god to forgive you. He is the most merciful.

          Comment


            #35
            Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

            How do you explain how we as humans have this inate consciousness of right and wrong? I am sure that when you were a youngster you knew instinctively that it was wrong to steal or cheat? Where did it come from? human nature or the creator? Of course you believe in original sin that imputed sin upon mankind while I do not. There is a vast difference between you and I. I do not believe in the attonment of Jesus because in the messages of the Final Messenger Muhammad (PBUH) it is clearly revealed it was not necessary because "no man cab bear the burden of another" and further ALLAH (swt) revealed in the Taurat that The sins of the father cannot be imputed to the son and neither cna the sins of the son be imputed on the father". The sin nature you talk of is real when someone can realize they are doing wrong but to say we are born in sin is wrong. Quote me where the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said he was born into sin? AJ4u?
            Last edited by FAREED1952; 10-02-15, 04:32 AM.

            Comment


              #36
              Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

              Originally posted by Witwoa View Post
              Because as a baby we are born summited to Allah and our parents or things around us pull us away from his guidance.
              But as a muslims we sin. It is simple we ask god to forgive us. That's it. You will sin you ask god to forgive you. He is the most merciful.
              You are contradicting yourself/ You said, "It is not that we are born with out doing sin" and now you say, "we are born summited to Allah and our parents." Don't you see the contradiction?

              Comment


                #37
                Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

                In the 70's Campus Crusade for Christ and the Jesus Movement leading teachers used to say that every person is born with a heart shaped void. This is the natural inclination toward a supreme being placed within the hearts of all mankind. If one is raised in a home where God is not part of the equation one can quickly have that inclination masked by other things such as secular humanism, atheism, paganism or as Jesus (as) taught "the cares of the world.' To Christians that void can only be filled by 'accepting Jesus' to act as a mediator to establish a relationship with God. Which is never mentioned in the scriptures in that form. Islam teaches us that void can only be filled by a direct relationship with God through declaring the Kalima or declartion of faith.. We believe we need no mediator that ALLAH (swt) hears and answers the earnest prayer of those who believe. We keep that direct relationship through prayer and repentance. while I was not born into an Islam or Muslim home, I see fruits of Brothers and Sisters that were raised in this environment. From the moment of birth those born into Islamic families are reminded of their duty to ALLAH (swt). I have heard that when a child is born into such a family the first words they hear is the Adhan or call to prayer. These children are taught to respect others and moreover to serve ALLAH (swt). The same can be said of some Christian household where the scriptures are taught and honored above the teachings of man. The anabaptists ( Mennonites and Amish) are very strong on this. Raise up a child in the way he should go and he shall not depart from it the OT says. We in Islam are taught that natural inclination towards God ALLAH (swt) is called fitrah.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

                  Originally posted by AJ4u View Post
                  You are contradicting yourself/ You said, "It is not that we are born with out doing sin" and now you say, "we are born summited to Allah and our parents." Don't you see the contradiction?
                  Go back and read what I wrote.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

                    Originally posted by Witwoa View Post
                    Go back and read what I wrote.
                    Why? I quoted you verbatim in the post. I responded to and proved your contradiction using your words, Why tell me to reread it. Read what I quoted from you exactly and see my point.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

                      Originally posted by AJ4u View Post
                      Why? I quoted you verbatim in the post. I responded to and proved your contradiction using your words, Why tell me to reread it. Read what I quoted from you exactly and see my point.
                      The thing is you don't understand the islsmic view of human sins. We were not made perfect. Muslims sin but unlike other we believe in Allah and his messagers. We worship him and we turn to him in repentance.



                      يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا تُوبُوا إِلَى اللَّهِ تَوْبَةً نَصُوحًا عَسَىٰ رَبُّكُمْ أَنْ يُكَفِّرَ عَنْكُمْ سَيِّئَاتِكُمْ وَيُدْخِلَكُمْ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِنْ تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ يَوْمَ لَا يُخْزِي اللَّهُ النَّبِيَّ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مَعَهُ ۖ نُورُهُمْ يَسْعَىٰ بَيْنَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَبِأَيْمَانِهِمْ يَقُولُونَ رَبَّنَا أَتْمِمْ لَنَا نُورَنَا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا ۖ إِنَّكَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

                      O you who have believed, repent to Allah with sincere repentance. Perhaps your Lord will remove from you your misdeeds and admit you into gardens beneath which rivers flow [on] the Day when Allah will not disgrace the Prophet and those who believed with him. Their light will proceed before them and on their right; they will say, "Our Lord, perfect for us our light and forgive us. Indeed, You are over all things competent."


                      Sin we submit to Allah but we still sin. He did not make us perfect

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

                        Originally posted by Witwoa View Post
                        O you who have believed, repent to Allah with sincere repentance. Perhaps your Lord will remove from you your misdeeds and admit you into gardens beneath which rivers flow [on] the Day when Allah will not disgrace the Prophet and those who believed with him. Their light will proceed before them and on their right; they will say, "Our Lord, perfect for us our light and forgive us. Indeed, You are over all things competent."


                        Sin we submit to Allah but we still sin. He did not make us perfect
                        Yes , I agree we are not perfect and sin, but I don't need to depend on maybe Allah will forgive my sin when in Christianity I know God forgives my sin; Why should I step down my faith to uncertainty when I can know that I have already been forgiven and saved from my past misdeeds, present and future sins? That is not a license to live in sin, it is the freedom to do what is good and right altogether and Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Those who depend on God for an uncertain outcome regarding their misdeeds will receive uncertainty and death.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

                          Bismillah Arahman Araheem.
                          Witwoa don't let anyone deceive you with the teachings of Paul as they are noit Authoritative or binding on Muslims. You have spoken the truth and ALLAH will reward you for that.
                          AJ4u: once again we meet. You seem to think that all your "past misdeeds present and future sins" are already forgiven? Since you claim to be a bible believing Christian I will remind you that what John wrote in his first epistle "If we confess our sins he (God) is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us for all unrighteousness" and again "If we say we have no sin we make God a Liar".
                          We all need to repent daily. We muslims do it in our daily prayer and we are to to say when we catch ourselves falling into something questionable to say "astafurAllah" ALLAH forgive me.
                          Isa (as) taught that repentance is necessary for forgiveness. So If as you state all your Misdeeds past present and future are forgiven do you reject the biblical teaching of repentance?
                          Uncertainty and death? Hardly. we Muslims are promised Paradise if we live Righteously and upright before ALLAH (swt). We live in hope of Paradise and fear the other outcome. \

                          In Surah Al-Kahf we find comfort and we also find the outcome for those who are hypocrites. (I take shelter from the accursed satan with ALLAH)

                          v 103 " say: shall we tell you the greatest losers in respect to deeds?

                          v 104: Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life
                          while they thought that they were acquiring good
                          by their deeds.

                          v 105: They are those who deny the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs
                          revelations etc) of their Lord and the Meeting with Him in the Hereafter. So their works are in vain
                          and on the Day of Resurrection we shall assign no weight for them.

                          v106: That shall be their recompense, Hell; because they disbelieved and took
                          My Ayat and My Messengers by way of jest and mockery.

                          v 107: verily those who believe (in the Oneness of ALLAH, Islamic Monotheism)
                          and do Righteous deeds shall have the Gardens 9f Al-Firdaus for (Paradise) their entertainment.

                          v 108: Wherein they shall dwell (forever) and have no desire to
                          be removed therefrom.

                          From the Noble QUR'AN a translation of the meaning of the QUR'AN

                          So from this we can see the certainty of Heaven (Paradise ) for the believer in Islamic Monotheism. And in contrast it shows the true destiny of those who reject the clear teaching in the QUR'AN.
                          Of course some Christians might say that verses 103 througn106 don't apply to them but a careful open and honest reading shows that it does.
                          Last edited by FAREED1952; 10-02-15, 08:29 PM.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

                            Originally posted by FAREED1952 View Post
                            Bismillah Arahman Araheem.
                            Witwoa don't let anyone deceive you with the teachings of Paul as they are noit Authoritative or binding on Muslims. You have spoken the truth and ALLAH will reward you for that.
                            AJ4u: once again we meet. You seem to think that all your "past misdeeds present and future sins" are already forgiven? Since you claim to be a bible believing Christian I will remind you that what John wrote in his first epistle "If we confess our sins he (God) is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us for all unrighteousness" and again "If we say we have no sin we make God a Liar".
                            We all need to repent daily. We muslims do it in our daily prayer and we are to to say when we catch ourselves falling into something questionable to say "astafurAllah" ALLAH forgive me.
                            Isa (as) taught that repentance is necessary for forgiveness. So If as you state all your Misdeeds past present and future are forgiven do you reject the biblical teaching of repentance?
                            Uncertainty and death? Hardly. we Muslims are promised Paradise if we live Righteously and upright before ALLAH (swt). We live in hope of Paradise and fear the other outcome. \

                            In Surah Al-Kahf we find comfort and we also find the outcome for those who are hypocrites. (I take shelter from the accursed satan with ALLAH)

                            v 103 " say: shall we tell you the greatest losers in respect to deeds?

                            v 104: Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life
                            while they thought that they were acquiring good
                            by their deeds.

                            v 105: They are those who deny the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs
                            revelations etc) of their Lord and the Meeting with Him in the Hereafter. So their works are in vain
                            and on the Day of Resurrection we shall assign no weight for them.

                            v106: That shall be their recompense, Hell; because they disbelieved and took
                            My Ayat and My Messengers by way of jest and mockery.

                            v 107: verily those who believe (in the Oneness of ALLAH, Islamic Monotheism)
                            and do Righteous deeds shall have the Gardens 9f Al-Firdaus for (Paradise) their entertainment.

                            v 108: Wherein they shall dwell (forever) and have no desire to
                            be removed therefrom.

                            From the Noble QUR'AN a translation of the meaning of the QUR'AN

                            So from this we can see the certainty of Heaven (Paradise ) for the believer in Islamic Monotheism. And in contrast it shows the true destiny of those who reject the clear teaching in the QUR'AN.
                            Of course some Christians might say that verses 103 througn106 don't apply to them but a careful open and honest reading shows that it does.
                            Why would you say that to Witwoa he is already a Muslim, and you as a Christian should know I don't believe since past, present and future sins are forgiven that repentance is not an option. You should have known as once being a Christian that God is not mocked for whatever a man sows so shall he reap.

                            God knows the hearts of men and knows how to deliver the godly man out of temptation and reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment. If any is attempting to deceive Witwoa it is you, because you know in Christianity we have assurance of salvation because it is not based on works. It is by God's grace through faith we are saved. If we have faith in Christ, God will do the good deeds through us that will last. If we don't have the faith that God has already saved us through Christ, we will attempt to do good in our own strength and be judged a failure by God . Paul or anyone doesn't have to be an authoritative figure in you life to speak truth you need to hear. You have fallen from God's grace and Witwoa is in better shoes than you, because he wasn't once a Christian like you

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

                              I mean repentance is not an option period. Why did you know that as once being a Christian?

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Re: Yusha Evans : Fallacies of the New Testament

                                Originally posted by AJ4u View Post
                                Yes , I agree we are not perfect and sin, but I don't need to depend on maybe Allah will forgive my sin when in Christianity I know God forgives my sin; Why should I step down my faith to uncertainty when I can know that I have already been forgiven and saved from my past misdeeds, present and future sins? That is not a license to live in sin, it is the freedom to do what is good and right altogether and Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Those who depend on God for an uncertain outcome regarding their misdeeds will receive uncertainty and death.
                                You are not aware of what you wrote. You believe that you have been saved from "my past misdeeds prsent and future sins" do you not?
                                As far as what i said to Witwoa was not out of line. Why do you believe it was? As a Christian don't you believe in giving compliments when somebody says something true?

                                Comment

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