Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Errors in Quran ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: Errors in Quran ?

    Originally posted by redtilt1 View Post
    I take an interest in the history of astronomy I think the quote about the seven heavens is likely to be referring to the concept of classical planet.
    Can you give me the quote/verse you are talking about.
    Documentin operssion against muslims
    Memorization methods for the Qur'an
    Learn arabic for free
    IOU - free courses, SeekersHub - free courses
    sunnah.com

    Comment


    • Re: Errors in Quran ?

      thread came alive after 2 years.. interesting.
      My heart has secrets to tell you.. I'll tell you with my eyes..
      http://lost-inthecall.blogspot.com

      Comment


      • Re: Errors in Quran ?

        Originally posted by Akhdar View Post
        Can you give me the quote/verse you are talking about.
        Seven Heavens is mentioned frequenlty in the Qur'an , here is an example, but there are many others.


        http://quran.com/23/17

        And We have created above you seven layered heavens, and never have We been of [Our] creation unaware.

        Comment


        • Re: Errors in Quran ?

          Originally posted by redtilt1 View Post
          I read your reply, its clearly not consistent with the facts, you said:
          “Example if it was clearly mentioned in Quran Earth was spherical , just imagine what would have happened ? The Pagan Arabs then would have constructed THE tallest tower to climb and see was it real ? That would lead them only to waste their Precious TIME only thinking on this single word and still cannot come to any conclusion untill they had a Modern Astronomical Telescope ..”

          The Greeks had worked out , not only that Earth had a sphere like shape but Erateosthenes has detemriend the cirucmference of the Earth by looking at shadows. He got the answer pretty much correct to todays measreuments:
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratost..._circumference
          Its evident you know nothing about the history of science, so Again I will repeat the point. The Qur’an shows evidence of repeating the error of ancient people that there are seven heavens.
          Hey Redtilt1,
          I really appreciate that you're looking for the truth and you are finding what you believe to be errors/mistakes within the Quran and you're addressing your concerns. Alhamdulilah (All praise is due to God).

          I'll address the first problem here very briefly Translations - When the Quran is translated it has lost a lot of it's meaning and understanding. This is why you will find on a lot of translations it says "Meaning of the Quran in English" - It can't be the perfect copy of the Quran due to the restrictions of the English language compared to the classical Arabic

          As for the Earth being flat or sphere...
          The Muslims historically had a huge part of Science due to two reasons (at least that I know) 1) Locating Mecca from anywhere on Earth and 2)They loved understanding-exploring God's creation.
          You will find that it was very early on that Muslim scholars agreed the world was sphere and this never effected their belief. Why would that be? Would it be because they were masters of the Arabic language and they knew the complete linguistical understanding of the Quran..? You get my point right bro? :)

          Anyhow, if you look further you'll find that In the 800s, Muslim astronomers in Baghdad calculated the circumference of the Earth and were off by just 0.46%.
          The convert story that has been read 15,000+ times
          "In the Ottoman Empire, Muhammadﷺ's descendants formed a kind of nobility with the privilege of carrying green turbans."

          Comment


          • Re: Errors in Quran ?

            Originally posted by AidanUK View Post
            Hey Redtilt1,
            I really appreciate that you're looking for the truth and you are finding what you believe to be errors/mistakes within the Quran and you're addressing your concerns. Alhamdulilah (All praise is due to God).

            I'll address the first problem here very briefly Translations - When the Quran is translated it has lost a lot of it's meaning and understanding. This is why you will find on a lot of translations it says "Meaning of the Quran in English" - It can't be the perfect copy of the Quran due to the restrictions of the English language compared to the classical Arabic

            As for the Earth being flat or sphere...
            The Muslims historically had a huge part of Science due to two reasons (at least that I know) 1) Locating Mecca from anywhere on Earth and 2)They loved understanding-exploring God's creation.
            You will find that it was very early on that Muslim scholars agreed the world was sphere and this never effected their belief. Why would that be? Would it be because they were masters of the Arabic language and they knew the complete linguistical understanding of the Quran..? You get my point right bro? :)

            Anyhow, if you look further you'll find that In the 800s, Muslim astronomers in Baghdad calculated the circumference of the Earth and were off by just 0.46%.
            You say that the Qur’an’s meaning is lost in translation. I find that a rather inconsistent view. When people tell us of the so called “miracles” in the Qur’an they rely on a English translation. Now when I find what looks like a major error, I’m told its not the right translation.
            Your complaint is too vague, you don’t specifically say that the seven heavens is not in the classical Arabic, are you a classical Arabic scholar? The problem is many other classical Arabic scholars think that’s exactly what it says. If classical Arabic scholars cant agree with what it means , how can it be miraculous book. A miraculous book should have a clear meaning. If they do agree the seven heavens is mentioned in the Qur’an , then it looks like a clear error.

            Your point about Muslim scholars agreeing the world is a sphere is irrelevant. If you follow the conversation, a previous poster had said the spheroid like shape of the Earth is not mentioned in the Qur’an because it would have wasted the time of the Arabs, as I pointed out this is not true. So your point simply backs mine.

            Comment


            • Re: Errors in Quran ?

              The 7 heavens are referred to in a way that suggests that people were already familiar with the concept:

              'See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another,' (Trans. Yusuf Ali)

              This is something they can see for themselves - a known fact. But how can this be?

              That's because the concept of the 7 heavens comes from the Greeks. They theorised that there were seven levels of heavens occupied by the 5 planets then discovered, plus the sun and the moon. Each of these was in its own 'sphere' or orbit. Thus, all 7 can actually be seen by anyone and could be regarded as an observational 'fact'.

              The significant or 'new' claim in the sura is not that there were 7 heavens, but that they were made by Allah.

              Obviously, the underlying claim of 7 heavens is incorrect.

              Comment


              • Re: Errors in Quran ?

                ^^
                In addition, there were similar concepts in Babylonian culture and Judaism.

                Comment


                • Re: Errors in Quran ?

                  This is the concept of seven heavens in Islam. You should studu the concept before you claim something that's not true:
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYYP1K4omwM
                  Documentin operssion against muslims
                  Memorization methods for the Qur'an
                  Learn arabic for free
                  IOU - free courses, SeekersHub - free courses
                  sunnah.com

                  Comment


                  • Re: Errors in Quran ?

                    Originally posted by Akhdar View Post
                    This is the concept of seven heavens in Islam. You should studu the concept before you claim something that's not true:
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYYP1K4omwM
                    Im sorry i dont have access to youtube whwere I am, its blocked, perhaps you could explain yourself what your objection is

                    Comment


                    • Re: Errors in Quran ?

                      Originally posted by redtilt1 View Post
                      Im sorry i dont have access to youtube whwere I am, its blocked, perhaps you could explain yourself what your objection is
                      http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1d...-hd_shortfilms
                      Documentin operssion against muslims
                      Memorization methods for the Qur'an
                      Learn arabic for free
                      IOU - free courses, SeekersHub - free courses
                      sunnah.com

                      Comment


                      • Re: Errors in Quran ?

                        Im sorry but all video sites are blocked at my office, that inlcudes youtube, dialy motion, vimeo etc. IS there some reaosn you cant explain this issue yourself?

                        Comment


                        • Re: Errors in Quran ?

                          Originally posted by ExNihilo View Post
                          The 7 heavens are referred to in a way that suggests that people were already familiar with the concept:

                          'See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another,' (Trans. Yusuf Ali)

                          This is something they can see for themselves - a known fact. But how can this be?

                          That's because the concept of the 7 heavens comes from the Greeks. They theorised that there were seven levels of heavens occupied by the 5 planets then discovered, plus the sun and the moon. Each of these was in its own 'sphere' or orbit. Thus, all 7 can actually be seen by anyone and could be regarded as an observational 'fact'.

                          The significant or 'new' claim in the sura is not that there were 7 heavens, but that they were made by Allah.

                          Obviously, the underlying claim of 7 heavens is incorrect.
                          Obviously, this is slippery slope fallacy.
                          Alla the known universe is contained in the lowest heaven.
                          Muslims Search Engine !
                          And those who disbelieved will then say, " Our Lord, show us those who misled us of the jinn and mankind ,so we may put them under our feet that they will be among the lowest."

                          Comment


                          • Re: Errors in Quran ?

                            Originally posted by redtilt1 View Post
                            Im sorry but all video sites are blocked at my office, that inlcudes youtube, dialy motion, vimeo etc. IS there some reaosn you cant explain this issue yourself?
                            According to this source (http://www.al-islam.org/philosophy-i...far-subhani-35), islamic scholars have made a number of different claims for this concept including one akin to the Greek/Babylonian version but also others:

                            'Islamic scholars and commentators have narrated some clarifications regarding 'seven heavens' (towards which indication are made in the Holy Qur’an also).

                            1. Here by seven is meant to be multiplication (to be more). It means that He has created many heavens, i.e. He has created a number of times. And mostly it so happens that, in Arabic, Persian, Urdu or other languages, the mention of numbers is done in the sense of plenty. It means that a number is mentioned but no definite quantity is meant. The purpose of saying is to convey plenty.

                            For example, generally we say in Urdu that, I said this to you fifty times, or I have demanded from him ten times. However, it is not necessary that, the act should have been done for exactly fifty or ten times. But it is meant that I have said this many times or I have demanded that thing a number of times. The Holy Qur’an says about the word of Allah and the things known to Allah in this way:

                            “And were every tree that is in the earth (made into) pens and the sea (to supply it with ink), with seven more seas to increase it, the words of Allah would not come to an end…”1

                            It is obvious, here seven indicates excess, otherwise as we know, if there is an addition of ten or hundred oceans also, then too the unfathomed knowledge of Allah cannot be written, because Allah is by all means beyond words.

                            In the same way many other numbers 'sabeen' 'seventy', etc. also, are used in the sense of excess in the Holy Qur’an or other words (either in speech or writing) in Arabic and other languages. And the meaning of those numbers is not some definite number, but it is intended to point towards the excess of something.

                            2. By seven heavens it was meant to be those planets, which were known to the people of that period or they are those planets, which the general public of the present age can see with naked eyes.

                            3. By seven heavens are meant the multiple layers of different airs and gases that encircle the earth.

                            4. Still, according to the views of some great intellectuals, those small stars, galaxies and Milky Way, which are seen, all are part of the first heaven and beyond that six still bigger worlds are there. And by seven heavens the Holy Qur’an means all those seven worlds, which exist in the Universe. '

                            Comment


                            • Re: Errors in Quran ?

                              Originally posted by dollyparton
                              Also why does Allah talk to heaven and the earth and commands them? Do they have free will?

                              Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly." 41:11
                              Only humans and jinns have free will. Only those with free will will be rewarded and punished with Heaven and Hell.
                              [SIZE=4][COLOR="#FF0000"][FONT=Book Antiqua][CENTER][B][URL="http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?459504-Immensely-rewarding-dhikr!!!&highlight="]IMMENSELY REWARDING DHIKR!!![/URL][/B][/CENTER][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

                              [FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=4][COLOR="#2F4F4F"][CENTER]Before you post, think..."Will this help me when I stand before Allah?" If it doesn't, then you're wasting time....[/CENTER][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

                              Comment


                              • Re: Errors in Quran ?

                                Originally posted by dollyparton
                                If all the known universe is contained in the lowest heaven then can you please explain these Quranic verses?

                                See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp? 71:15-16
                                Lo! We have adorned the lowest heaven with an ornament, the planets; 37:6

                                I don't see your point at all.
                                Some disbelievers say that God says that the moon is located in the middle of the universe based on this ayat:



                                Sahih International
                                Do you not consider how Allah has created seven heavens in layers



                                Sahih International
                                And made the moon therein a [reflected] light and made the sun a burning lamp?
                                http://quran.com/71/15-16

                                The reason for their laughable claim is that some english translators used the word midst 'And made the moon a light in their midst' (which is a wrong translation).
                                The Arabic words 'Fihaa', 'Fihinna', 'Fihim' and 'Fihi' (i.e. 'in it' or 'in them') etc. are used to imply 'within', which does not necessarily imply 'lying at the middle/center' as they want to portray.
                                The point that would truly establish the said 'scientific' error is that the referred Arabic words for 'within' cannot be used for something that lies at the periphery of something else. In other words, what disbelievers needs to establish is that the referred Arabic words for 'within' cannot be used for the situation depicted in Square B, as shown in the diagram.

                                So, as we can see, like many of other refuted claims, the straw man fallacy is commonly committed..

                                God chose the language of the Arabs as the medium for relaying His final and most important message to mankind. Among the many languages of humanity, Arabic has a very high level of subtlety and eloquence. When we study carefully the words Allah chooses to describe things, the miraculous nature of the Quran becomes quite clear.

                                Originally posted by dollyparton
                                Also why does Allah talk to heaven and the earth and commands them? Do they have free will?

                                Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly." 41:11
                                we see in this ayah of the Quran, that whether it willingly submits, or is compelled to do so. The ayah answer your question. If you can't grasp it, It would be just your comprehension problem.

                                Originally posted by ExNihilo View Post
                                According to this source , islamic scholars have made a number of different claims for this concept including one akin to the Greek/Babylonian version but also others:
                                Your source is not credible i.e of no value.
                                Muslims Search Engine !
                                And those who disbelieved will then say, " Our Lord, show us those who misled us of the jinn and mankind ,so we may put them under our feet that they will be among the lowest."

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X