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  • Church supports martyrdom

    Dr. Attallah Hana (right) during his lecture at the Zayed Centre for Co-ordination and Follow-Up yesterday in Abu Dhabi. Mohammed Khalifa Al Murar, Executive Director, ZCCF, is also shown.

    Martyrdom by Palestinian men and women is part of intifada, which serves their struggle against Israeli atrocities and cannot be separated from their liberation movement, said a visiting official of the Orthodox Church in occupied Jerusalem and the Holy Land.

    Addressing a packed crowd at the Zayed Centre for Coordination and Follow-Up in the capital, Father Dr Attallah Hanna, official spokesman of the Orthodox Church in Jerusalem and the Holy Land, said last night he supported martyrdom by Palestinian men and women to fight for their just rights.

    Father Attallah said the basic principle of all Palestinian political parties is the continuation of intifada against Israeli atrocities. Therefore, he said, the Church fully supports the uprising to achieve the objectives of freedom from Israel.

    Giving his full support to martyrdom, the spokesman of the Orthodox Church in the Holy Land said: "As you know, political parties in Palestine agree to the continuation of the intifada, which includes different approaches of struggle.

    "Some freedom fighters adopt martyrdom or suicide bombing, while others opt for other measures. But all these struggles serve the continued intifada for freedom. Therefore, we support all these causes."

    He said Palestinian people should be steadfast in their struggle to be heard by the world community.

    The veteran prelate said Palestinian people have been forced to adopt martyrdom by Israeli aggressors.

    "It is the Israeli Zionist regime that is committing genocide in Palestine by killing innocent women and children. Palestinian people have the right to defend themselves from the Israeli barbarism and atrocities," Father Attallah said.

    "We are part of the intifada, so you don't expect us to keep distance and watch. We are in the struggle, whether it's martyrdom or any other means, we are part of it," he said.

    Referring to the Christian community in Palestine, he said it was the Israeli conspiracy to show the world that it was a Muslim struggle and Christians and other community members had nothing to do with it.

    "Let me make it clear that Muslims and Christians are one and cannot be separated from the struggle for the liberation of Palestine. We are Palestinians and Arabs," he said.

    The Orthodox Church official further said Palestinian Christians have suffered under Israeli Zionist rule as much as Muslims. He said Israeli troops have been committing genocide against Palestinian Christians since 1948.

    He said an Orthodox Church has been occupied by Israeli settlers for more than 15 years, which itself shows how Palestinian Christians are suffering under Israeli occupation.

    "We are one people. Whether Muslims or Christians, we are Palestinians and Arabs and we will continue our struggle till we achieve freedom," he assured the Church supporters.

    Referring to the number of Christians in Palestine, he said the number had decreased due to forceful migration by Israeli troops since the occupation of Arab lands.

    "The current two per cent Christians in Palestine are an integral part of our Muslim brothers. They are as loyal to the struggle as they are. There have been pioneering leaders in the struggle for the freedom among Christians in Palestine," he said.

    "Our main aim is liberation of the occupied land with Jerusalem as the Capital city of an independent Palestine. All the Arabs are Palestinians, whether Muslims or Christians," Father Attallah said.

    He said Israel, with its Western allies, portrays Palestinian issue as a conflict between Jews and Muslims. "Let me tell the world that it is not the issue. The conflict is between the truth and Israeli lies. If it was a religious conflict, the Christians would not have come to the picture. Christians are part and parcel of the Palestinian struggle for the freedom," he said.

    Source: Gulf News
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  • #2
    Father Hanna seems to have no credibility
    ...and has lost his job....

    Greek Orthodox Church Spokesman
    Replaced for Supporting Suicide Attacks
    http://www.gulf-news.com/articles/n...rticleID-55045, June 20, 2002.

    [2] www.zccf.org.ae/LECTURES/A2_lectures/231.htm

    [3] Al-Sennara (Israel), July 5, 2002.

    [4] Al-Sennara (Israel), July 5, 2002.

    [5] Al-Quds (Palestinian Authority), July 11, 2002.

    [6] Al-Sfir (Lebanon), July 12, 2002.

    [7] Al-Zaman (London), July 13, 2002.

    [8] Al-Sfir (Lebanon), July 12, 2002.

    [9] A term for the Ottoman Sultan.

    [10] Al-Sharq Al-Awsat (London), July 12, 2002.

    http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.c...ihad&ID=SP40502
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    • #3
      I didnt realise he was forced out of the church. Let alone for that statement considering he is a big and important figure in Palestine, international politics and the Christian religion.
      Here a case study that was produced on how matyrdom operations are valid in Chrsitianity. I'm not sure thpugh if it was the basis for Father Dr Attallah Hanna's stance on Matyrdom operation.

      Suicide Bombing in the Bible:

      The sections of this article are:

      1- Suicide Bombing in the Bible.
      2- The story of the Mighty Samson.
      3- The story of Saul and his Children.
      4- But the Palestinians today target Israeli women and children. See how
      the Bible is the real "Homicide Bomber".
      5- What about Jesus' command to not resist the evil people? To turn the other
      cheek to the offender.
      6- Conclusion.

      Jewish and Christian knowledgeable ministers are really clear hypocrites! They condemn the Palestinian Suicide Bomber Martyrs who are defending their lands and trying to drive the Israeli occupation out of their lands with every way they can, while intentionally ignoring the fact that their very own Bible allows suicide bombing.



      The story of the Mighty Samson:

      "Self sacrifice" and giving your life away intentionally and taking as many enemy lives with you as possible for the sake of GOD Almighty and your people exists in the Bible. Let us look at the story of the Mighty Samson in the Bible:

      "Samson said to the servant who held his hand, "Put me where I can feel the pillars that support the temple, so that I may lean against them." Now the temple was crowded with men and women; all the rulers of the Philistines were there, and on the roof were about three thousand men and women watching Samson perform. Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD , remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes." Then Samson reached toward the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other, Samson said, "Let me die with the Philistines!" Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived. (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:26-30)"

      Note: I called him "Mighty Samson" because he was extremely powerful. He was far much more stronger than all men in his time.

      As we clearly see from the Bible, Samson gave his life for his people by killing as much from the enemy as possible.

      Samson prayed to GOD to give him back his power (Samson lost his power after the seven braids of his hair were shaven by Delilah and her people while he was sleeping, Judges 16:1-20), and GOD Almighty granted him that revoked power back. Samson then was able to bring the temple down upon him and his enemies.

      Question was raised to me: I was asked to show a proof that GOD Almighty approved of Samson's suicide that killed himself and his enemies. Well, GOD Almighty apparently knew what Samson was up to and thus He decided to grant him his revoked power back to enable him to kill himself and his enemies. So therefore, GOD Almighty did approve of Samson's action. Otherwise, why would GOD give back Samson his power after revoking it from him? And didn't He know about Samson's plan and intentions of suicide?

      Another Question raised to me: I was asked to show from the Bible where did GOD Almighty indeed grant Samson his power back so he can commit suicide in the intention of taking his enemies with him. Well, let us read Judges 16:19-22:

      "Having put him to sleep on her lap, she called a man to shave off the seven braids of his hair, and so began to subdue him. And his strength left him. Then she called, "Samson, the Philistines are upon you!" He awoke from his sleep and thought, "I'll go out as before and shake myself free." But he did not know that the LORD had left him. Then the Philistines seized him, gouged out his eyes and took him down to Gaza. Binding him with bronze shackles, they set him to grinding in the prison. But the hair on his head began to grow again after it had been shaved. (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:19-22)"

      Now let us read Judges 16:28:

      "Then Samson prayed to the LORD, "O Sovereign LORD , remember me. O God, please strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes." (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:28)"

      Here we see that GOD Almighty apparently gave Samson the chance to get his power back through growing his hair back. GOD Almighty wanted for Samson to take his own life and the life of his enemies with him. He willed for him to die this way. He could've simply willed for Samson to die on the spot after his enemies gouged his eyes for him. But no, instead, GOD Almighty decided for Samson to die while enabling him to take as many pagan Philistines with him as possible.

      GOD in the Bible actually makes the point very clear: "Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived. (From the NIV Bible, Judges 16:30)"

      My challenge to all Jews and Christians: Show me in the Bible where GOD Almighty condemned the actions of Samson.

      So to all of those hypocrites from Jewish and Christian Rabies and Ministers who call the Palestinian Suicide Martyrs as "Homicide Bombers", how are the Palestinians today different from what Samson did before?

      I don't blame the regular Jews and Christians because they don't know much about their Bible. But I do have a great deal of problem with the hypocrites and the Pedophiles of the Churches who know everything about their porn-full bible, the book of women's breasts and vaginas taste like wine, and brothers and sisters sleeping with each others (see the proofs and quotes for yourself from the porn-full bible), because they clearly have double standards. They are clearly contradicting themselves and their porn-full bible.



      The story of Saul and his Children:

      Let us read the following from the Bible:

      "Now the Philistines fought against Israel; the Israelites fled before them, and many fell slain on Mount Gilboa. The Philistines pressed hard after Saul and his sons, and they killed his sons Jonathan, Abinadab and Malki-Shua. The fighting grew fierce around Saul, and when the archers overtook him, they wounded him critically. Saul said to his armor-bearer, "Draw your sword and run me through, or these uncircumcised fellows will come and run me through and abuse me." But his armor-bearer was terrified and would not do it; so Saul took his own sword and fell on it. When the armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he too fell on his sword and died with him. So Saul and his three sons and his armor-bearer and all his men died together that same day. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Samuel 31:1-6)"

      As we clearly see, Saul decided that he would rather die than be abused by his enemies, and so he decided to stab himself by his sword by purposely falling on it.

      So, was Saul a Martyr according to the Jewish and Christians Rabies and Ministers? Or is he going to burn in Hell for committing suicide?

      The point here is that no where in the Bible do we see any prohibition or promise for punishment by GOD Almighty for those believers who intentionally take away their own lives while confronting their enemies. So in reality, suicide bombing or self-sacrifice is not really prohibited in the Bible, but on the contrary, it is allowed.



      But the Palestinians today target Israeli women and children:

      Even though Islam prohibits targeting innocent children at all time and people in general except in some exceptional cases, but the Palestinian Martyrs don't purposely target children. They target public cafes, night clubs and restaurants. They never targeted schools. They also once targeted the fanatic worshipers after they finished their prayers. These are the racist Jews who call for the death to all Arabs and consider everyone who is non-Jewish as an animal.

      Please visit The Jews' Holy Book, the Talmud's offensive views toward Jesus, Mary, women and people in general. Their Holy Book says: Jesus is burning in hell in "boiling hot semen (The Talmud, Gittin 57a)".

      Also, when Westerners say "women and children", this to me sounds like an insult to men, because men too have a human value just as much as women do!

      Anyway, again the Jewish and Christian Rabies and Ministers are still hypocrites when calling the Palestinian Martyrs "Homicide Bombers", because their very own bible ordered for the direct killing of "women and children":

      "Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (From the NIV Bible, Numbers 31:17)"

      So my point is, before you go and criticize the Palestinians, you should first criticize your own Bible. You should first mention that your very own Bible is a "Homicide Bomber".

      Now as to the Palestinians, given the circumstances that they live in from lack of advanced weapons, having limited amount of very light weapons such as bullets and dynamite, and most of all having suffered a failure of the Oslo agreement for 12 years now (since 1991), they have no choice but to retaliate.

      Please spare us the hoax of the "Ehud Barak generous offer" to Yaser Arafat during the final times of president Bill Clinton's presidency, because the offer didn't include returning our holy sites to us. The Jews believe that they must demolish the holy sites to build their holy temple on the same place. That's what caused for the offer to be rejected by the Palestinians.

      Also, Ehud Barak's offer to return 92% of the occupied lands was not accepted by the Israeli Parliaments anyway! So even if the Palestinians accepted it, the Israelis would've rejected it.



      What about Jesus' command to not resist the evil people?

      Let us look at what Prophet Jesus peace be upon him said:

      "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 5:38-39)"

      This beautiful Saying from Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is a great one on a personal level only, but not on nations' level. I personally apply this law to myself. I am very forgiving to people. Islam by the way teaches me this too, but in a slightly different way. (Read the "Repel Evil with Good" section).

      Some might say that Samson rather revenged from the pagan Philistines by killing himself along with them, while the Bible commands him "an eye for an eye" as shown above in Jesus' Saying, and in Exodus 21:24, Leviticus 24:20, and Deuteronomy 19:21 in the Old Testament. I agree that Samson revenged for himself, but he had no other choice to have the pagan Philistines pay back for he was under their control in imprisonment.

      Anyway, Jesus' Saying above doesn't nullify the Bible's guilt of the "Homicide Bombing" analogy in the "But the Palestinians today target Israeli women and children" section above, nor does it nullify Saul's suicide and martyrdom in the battle field. The Saying doesn't really apply to wars and nations' conflicts. It only applies to personal ones.

      So therefore, Jesus' Saying in Matthew 5:38-39 above doesn't disprove my theory of "Suicide Bombing" being allowed in the Bible.

      Conclusion:
      Before you decide to call the Palestinian Martyrs as "Homicide Bombers", you should first call the Bible for killing children and women, and Samson the same thing, because he did to his enemies exactly what the Palestinian Martyrs are doing to the occupying Israelis. The same principle applies to Saul and his children for taking away their own lives except that they didn't take any enemy with them. Otherwise, you will be as much of a hypocrite as your Church Ministers.

      As I said above, the point here is that no where in the Bible do we see any prohibition or promise for punishment by GOD Almighty for those believers who intentionally take away their own lives while confronting their enemies.

      Therefore, Suicide Bombing or Self-sacrifice is allowed in the Bible.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Dhzokhar
        I didnt realise he was forced out of the church. Let alone for that statement considering he is a big and important figure in Palestine, international politics and the Christian religion.
        I said this on your other thread, in Christian Churches, individual clerics do not make policy.

        Churches have a hierarchy, and this priest was not speaking for his Church, but for himself.

        So he was fired for overstepping his authority.
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        • #5
          I said this on your other thread, in Christian Churches, individual clerics do not make policy.
          Yes I realise that.

          Churches have a hierarchy, and this priest was not speaking for his Church, but for himself.
          by my previous post maybe his point of view is the correct one.
          according to some of my reports he isnt onely speaking for himslef.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Dhzokhar
            Suicide Bombing in the Bible:

            The sections of this article are:

            1- Suicide Bombing in the Bible.
            2- The story of the Mighty Samson.
            3- The story of Saul and his Children.
            4- But the Palestinians today target Israeli women and children. See how
            the Bible is the real "Homicide Bomber".
            5- What about Jesus' command to not resist the evil people? To turn the other
            cheek to the offender.
            6- Conclusion.
            Regarding Samson and Saul; while it's obvious God supported Samson, there's no evidence He supported Saul's suicide, and in any event Saul didn't take his enemy's kids with him (keep in mind that the Old Testament is a historical document, not just a list of laws; actions recorded in it or not necessarily held up for emulation). For Christians, it isn't relevent anyway, since they don't consider the OT binding on them. And anyway, I'd think twice before seeking justification by the way war was waged 3,000 years ago. As I pointed out in another thread, does that mean you would say Israel would be justified in dealing with the Palestinians as the Romans would have done?

            Even though Islam prohibits targeting innocent children at all time and people in general except in some exceptional cases, but the Palestinian Martyrs don't purposely target children. They target public cafes, night clubs and restaurants. They never targeted schools.
            And who exactly goes to night clubs (a lot of which are intended for youths, e.g. the Dolphinarium)? What about the attacks on school buses? Or the suicide bombers who strike malls during the holidays (when they are packed with children)?

            Now as to the Palestinians, given the circumstances that they live in from lack of advanced weapons, having limited amount of very light weapons such as bullets and dynamite, and most of all having suffered a failure of the Oslo agreement for 12 years now (since 1991), they have no choice but to retaliate.
            Oslo was in 1993. So let me get this argument straight: if you don't have military power, you're morally justified in attacking civilians? Have you though the implications through?

            Please spare us the hoax of the "Ehud Barak generous offer" to Yaser Arafat during the final times of president Bill Clinton's presidency, because the offer didn't include returning our holy sites to us. The Jews believe that they must demolish the holy sites to build their holy temple on the same place. That's what caused for the offer to be rejected by the Palestinians.
            First of all, they're our holy sites as well; given that the Palestinian leadership refuses to acknowledge that, I think Israel has a justified concern in handing those over to the Palestinians' full control. As for the "demolishing the holy sites" claptrap, that's a stance held by a very small group of Jews, who have been consistently forbidden (by the Israeli authorities) from entering the Temple mount, and their plans to reestablish the temple are considered more-or-less heretical by mainstream Judaism anyway.

            Also, Ehud Barak's offer to return 92% of the occupied lands was not accepted by the Israeli Parliaments anyway! So even if the Palestinians accepted it, the Israelis would've rejected it.
            As far as I recall, it was never brought before the Knesset, so naturally they "didn't accept" it.
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            • #7
              Maybe this is my fault for not editing the Palestinian references in the Article. Thatnks for your reply eyl and although alot of what you said i would normally dispute, my intention for posting the article was not to get into an Isreal/Palestine debate with someone. It was to get Christian responses to the points made in the article about the basis for matyrdom operation being acceptable in Christianity. After all this is the Comparative Religions forum rite? I absolutly understand your political stance in your response, the fault is on my side on not making it clear that this was suppose to be religiously motivated. Although i did post if in the comparative religons section of this site.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Dhzokhar
                Maybe this is my fault for not editing the Palestinian references in the Article. Thatnks for your reply eyl and although alot of what you said i would normally dispute, my intention for posting the article was not to get into an Isreal/Palestine debate with someone. It was to get Christian responses to the points made in the article about the basis for matyrdom operation being acceptable in Christianity. After all this is the Comparative Religions forum rite? I absolutly understand your political stance in your response, the fault is on my side on not making it clear that this was suppose to be religiously motivated. Although i did post if in the comparative religons section of this site.
                Actually, I didn't notice it was on comparative religion (I read the posts through "view new posts"), so I'll take half the blame if you take the other half .:D

                Anyway, my first paragraph is relevent to the religous question, at least from the Jewish POV.
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                • #9
                  eyl what is jewish view on the state of isreal? Most of my Jewish contacts are vehemently against the state of Isreal, not because of its human rights record but because they say it is jewsh beleif that the jews are not meant to have a state until the coming of your Messiah. Is that true?
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                  • #10
                    not because of its human rights record but because they say it is jewsh beleif that the jews are not meant to have a state until the coming of your Messiah. Is that true?
                    ______________________________

                    Actually from what I understand from Christian ministers; Israel is suppose to become its own State in the Last Generation, right before the return of Jesus, and that was suppose to have happened in 1948.
                    Being a Christian myself; I have to study the Bible more on that subject as I haven't read it anywhere, Cause I don't believe everything I hear.

                    Jael
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                    • #11
                      Thanks Jael. But I was hoping to get the Jewish perspective on my post rather then the Christian one. The Christian perspective is quite clear that Isreal is for the jews so are the teachings in the Bible and so are the elements that motivate western nations, that are mostly Christian, to support Isreal e.g America and Britain.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dhzokhar
                        eyl what is jewish view on the state of isreal? Most of my Jewish contacts are vehemently against the state of Isreal, not because of its human rights record but because they say it is jewsh beleif that the jews are not meant to have a state until the coming of your Messiah. Is that true?
                        <shrug>

                        The short answer is "depends who you ask". There isn't any one definitive opinion on the subject. Remember that Judaism, like Islam and unlike Christianity (or at least Catholic Christianity) has no single central religious authority, so different scholars may reach different conclusions from the texts. Some of the ultra-orthodox sects believe as you say; other denominations are indifferent to the issue to various degrees; others are indifferent from a religious standpoint, but strongly supportive from the secular standpoint; some see the existence of Israel as a religious imperitive (the extreme fringes of the last are where the more fanatical of the settlers mostly come from).
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