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The challenge of Surah 4:82 - Do they not then meditate on the Quran?...

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  • #76
    I further add that I can easily show that the Romans stole their ideas for the storylines found in their new testament from the Old Testament. Clearly those Hebrew slaves had a good laugh at that as they would be the ones teaching the Romans about the Old Testament. I have already established that to be a fact amongst the Christian congregations and their religious scholars never were in a position to dispute that fact and neither could you. That adds even more fuel to a fire when the Romans new testament that Muhammad believed in so much was a fraud also. It was because of Muhammad's belief in the Romans new testament that led to all his claims and why 11 Chapters of the Quran glorify Jesus and also quote the Romans invented storylines in the text of the Quran.

    It is unfortunate for Islam that you could not say Oh Jesus was a fraud when Muhammad already caused 11 Chapters of the Quran or be speaking in such re worded depth of the Romans deceptions. History now shows it was a serious error.

    It is most odd how one day Muhammad was a moon worshipper of hubal al ilah then was converted into Christianity and then claims to be a prophesied prophet from the Hebrews religion. How odd is all that.

    Let me explain to you that there is only one way a soul can be established as being a Prophet that came from the "Living God".

    The first is they must establish that they are a genuine Prophet and those prophecies must come true. The only other way is to perform a miracle here on earth and for each of those accounts you need two or three actual witnesses to the prophecy and that miracle. Then Deuteronomy law will establish the matter.

    Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
    Deuteronomy 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
    Deuteronomy 19:17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
    Deuteronomy 19:18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
    Deuteronomy 19:19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.
    Deuteronomy 19:20 And those which remain shall hear, and fear, and shall henceforth commit no more any such evil among you.
    Deuteronomy 19:21 And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
    That is how things are done.

    Saying you believe this or that religion is just not enough. The "Living God" says you need two or three actual witnesses to prophecy and a miracle. Then the matter cannot be disputed as nobody can stand against the actual word of the "Living God".

    Of course to claim that you are the long awaited Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verse's 18 prophet. The descendant's of Abraham would have to be scattered to the four corners of the globe and all the many prophesied signs in the heavens would have to appear in conjunction with each other at the time of that Deuteronomy Prophets arrival and further he would have to establish that he had given genuine prophecy that did come to pass and have a hand in a miracle right here on earth and in front of more that 2 witnesses.

    You may think that is an impossible task. Yet this was done by the Deuteronomy Prophet way back in 1994 when that evidence was presented to the Kabbalists Merton park London here in Britain. Did they not mention it to you.
    Last edited by Starjade; 31-07-21, 06:46 AM.

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    • #77
      As Muslims do not grasp the full Deuteronomy Prophecy here are just a few more of the many prophesied signs in the heavens that were foretold to occur when the actual Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verses 18 prophet would appear on this Planet. Of course nobody would expect any Muslims or roman christian to have been aware of these signs in the heavens. Its a Hebrew religion thing.

      Verse 133:
      Beginning in 1996 with the light from the Sun not shining on the Moon and for many hours the Moon itself did not cause its light to shine. 1999 a very rare eclipse darkened the light from the Sun. Some of these astronomical events fulfilled an old prophecy made by the Prophet Isaiah. The Prophet Isaiah said in Chapter 13 verse 9: Look the day of Jehovah is coming cruel both with fury and with burning anger. In order to make the land an object of astonishment and that it may annihilate the lands Sinners out of it. Verse 10: For the very Stars of the heavens and their constellations of Kesil will not flash forth their light. The Sun will grow dark at its going forth and the Moon itself will not cause its light to shine.

      Verse 134: In the spring of 1996, there have been consecutive sackcloth and blood red lunar eclipses on every major full Moon feast days of the descendants of Israel. The first eclipse fell on the celebration of the Passover on April 3rd 1996. The second fell on the eve of the Tabernacles on September 27th 1996. The third fell on Purim on March 23rd 1997. A fourth eclipse fell on 16th September 1997 in the middle of the days of Teshuva meaning repentance. Three of these lunar eclipses took place within the span of one biblical year and this is a very rare sign in the heavens of space drawing attention to the holy days of the descendants of Israel.

      Verse 135: Talmudic traditions consider the Moon as a representation of the prophesied Deuteronomy Prophet. December 21st 1999 on the day of the winter solstice, which is the longest night of the year, the Moon was at its closest point to Earth in its orbit and at the same time, it was as close as it gets to the Sun. The Moon was at its brightest for 133 years. These astronomical events continued to show as signs in the heavens beyond the year 2,000. There will be two solar eclipses in September of 2014 and September of 2015. The light from the Sun will once again grow dark. Four more lunar eclipses will be seen on the celebration of the Passover on April 15th 2014 and on the feast of Tabernacles on October 8th 2014, and on the Passover of April 4th 2015, and also again on the feast of the Tabernacles, September 28th 2015. There are many more signs of the arrival of the Deuteronomy Prophet in the heavens.

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      • #78
        This just gave me a giggle. Remember what I said about the Moon god Sin and Deuteronomy law.

        annihilate the lands Sinners out of it. Verse 10: For the very Stars of the heavens and their constellations of Kesil will not flash forth their light. The Sun will grow dark at its going forth and the Moon itself will not cause its light to shine.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Starjade View Post

          Let me explain to you that there is only one way a soul can be established as being a Prophet that came from the "Living God".

          The first is they must establish that they are a genuine Prophet and those prophecies must come true. The only other way is to perform a miracle here on earth and for each of those accounts you need two or three actual witnesses to the prophecy and that miracle. Then Deuteronomy law will establish the matter.

          [FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#333333]

          That is how things are done.
          What is the textual basis for the first part? The criterion that you put forth for the Prophet being genuine and requirement of miracles. Also interesting how you took the number of witnesses required for a miracle from a verse talking about immorality and sin and arbitrarily attached them together.


          Saying you believe this or that religion is just not enough. The "Living God" says you need two or three actual witnesses to prophecy and a miracle. Then the matter cannot be disputed as nobody can stand against the actual word of the "Living God".
          Arbitrarily quoting texts isn't enough either. You need to first prove the authenticity of the text to the audience you are appealing to (i.e. Muslims) before you jump to quoting it and using it as evidence. So let's start with step 1, how did you come to know that the Biblical texts you are quoting is authentic, divine and has not been tampered with?
          Last edited by notEVOLVED; 31-07-21, 09:00 AM.

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          • #80
            As for "prophecies", you can start here and show why they are insufficient, if you wish to contend them.

            https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/mi...f-muhammad-ﷺ

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Starjade View Post
              Let me explain to you that there is only one way a soul can be established as being a Prophet that came from the "Living God".

              The first is they must establish that they are a genuine Prophet and those prophecies must come true. The only other way is to perform a miracle here on earth and for each of those accounts you need two or three actual witnesses to the prophecy and that miracle. Then Deuteronomy law will establish the matter.

              [FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#333333]

              That is how things are done.

              Saying you believe this or that religion is just not enough. The "Living God" says you need two or three actual witnesses to prophecy and a miracle. Then the matter cannot be disputed as nobody can stand against the actual word of the "Living God".

              [FONT=Verdana][COLOR=#333333]Of course to claim that you are the long awaited Deuteronomy Chapter 18 verse's 18 prophet. The descendant's of Abraham would have to be scattered to the four corners of the globe and all the many prophesied signs in the heavens would have to appear in conjunction with each other at the time of that Deuteronomy Prophets arrival and further he would have to establish that he had given genuine prophecy that did come to pass and have a hand in a miracle right here on earth and in front of more that 2 witnesses.
              You know what? I agree. One criteria for Prophethood (Nubuwwat) is to perform miracles, and I will agree for sake of argument with Deutronomy's criteria of a miracle to be established via at least two or three actual witnesses.

              We have multiple such miracles from the Prophet Alayhis Salam that are Mutawatir (Mass-transmitted).

              E.g.

              Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

              "The moon was split during the time of the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ). So the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'Bear witness.'"


              - Jami'at Tirmidhi Vol. 5, Book 44, Hadith 3288, Hadith Mutawatir
              And another Riwayah, with a different companion:

              Narrated Anas:

              That the Meccan people requested Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) to show them a miracle, and so he showed them the splitting of the moon.

              - Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith 3637, Hadith Mutawatir
              This was witnessed by a large number of companions (in the hundreds) and we have countless Riwayat (transmissions) of this same event from huge amount of Sahabah written in different Hadith collections to (even of rival sects of Islam like the Shi'a).

              Here I'll name the minimum three for you since you require three:

              Abdullah Ibn Umar (Radiyallahu Anhu) - Hadith above.
              Abdullah ibn Mas'ud (Radiyallahu Anhu) - Sahih al-Bukhari 4864
              Ibn Abbas (Radiyallahu Anhu) - Sahih Muslim 2803

              There you have your three.

              Incidentally this miracle was also witnessed by an Indian king...

              Full biographies and the chain of narrators can be provided, more narrators can be provided from different collections if you wished.

              Now according to your very lax criteria, you have to accept the Prophethood of RasulAllah Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam (by Islamic standards we are more strict, a miracle performed by a Prophet must be established upon certainty which according to the majority necessitates mass-transmission with an unbroken chain of narrators with at least ten narrators narrating the event - which the above miracle more than easily fulfils).

              Other examples include the tree that cried for him Alayhis Salam, the blessing of providing food during a shortage, RasulAllah Alayhis Salam exorcising a demon (which will be awkward for Christians who are familiar with their scripture), healing the sick, water from his hands and one of my favourite miracles:

              Our Prophet Alayhis Salam threw some dust at the enemy army, at once a sandstorm hit them!

              For it was not youpl who killed them, but it was Allah who killed them. And yousg threw not when you threw, but it was Allah who threw, and so that He might test the believers with a goodly test(of victory) from Him; indeed, Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

              (Fadil Solimani's Interpretation of al-Qur'an, Surah al-Anfal, Ayah 17)
              We also have such countless miracles and many are mass-transmitted.

              So according to your own old testament criteria that you - not I - established, you must now become a Muslim.

              Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 31-07-21, 03:43 PM.

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