Correcting misconceptions re Christians eating pork

[macoooo]

I am completing my normal topic
I'm not just talking about the pig
It was the administration that changed the topic title
Original title, correcting errors

[Searcher]

Why do you feel you need to correct errors - as you believe them to be - could be you’re just misinterpreting the scriptures of others. Or trying to destroy a persons faith. Either way I don’t know what you hope to gain. In all honesty, your misconception around the whole Christian’s eating pork issue show it’s a case of misinterpretation rather than deliberately trying to destroy one’s faith. Christianity is still the largest of the Abrahamic religions in the world. It’s stood firm for 2000 years it’s not going anywhere, I’m really not sure who your target audience is.

I came here to understand more about Islam in comparison to Christianity but it seems Muslims are too wrapped up in dissing Christianity instead of giving a good account of Islam.

A member here once gave me a link to another site about Islam and that has been more helpful as you can actually talk to a real Muslim and ask questions.

To a Christian, these efforts to “correct errors” are meaningless. Because if one can’t trust the biblical message then one can’t trust the Quran message either. So leaving one in the dark so to speak.

[AbuNajm]

Why do you feel you need to correct errors - as you believe them to be - could be you’re just misinterpreting the scriptures of others. Or trying to destroy a persons faith. Either way I don’t know what you hope to gain. In all honesty, your misconception around the whole Christian’s eating pork issue show it’s a case of misinterpretation rather than deliberately trying to destroy one’s faith. Christianity is still the largest of the Abrahamic religions in the world. It’s stood firm for 2000 years it’s not going anywhere, I’m really not sure who your target audience is.

I came here to understand more about Islam in comparison to Christianity but it seems Muslims are too wrapped up in dissing Christianity instead of giving a good account of Islam.

A member here once gave me a link to another site about Islam and that has been more helpful as you can actually talk to a real Muslim and ask questions.

To a Christian, these efforts to “correct errors” are meaningless. Because if one can’t trust the biblical message then one can’t trust the Quran message either. So leaving one in the dark so to speak.

Searcher As a former Catholic who fulfilled the first 4 sacraments and graduated from a Jesuit College Prep Cum Laude with 4 years of Latin study- I can say that macoooo is not "misinterpreting" Christian scripture in suggesting that the consumption of pork is not simply an "OT/mosaic law" issue but rather an issue of Paulinian doctrine differing with the practice of Jesus during his lifetime.

It should not be a comfort to anyone to boast of the number of followers who hold the same beliefs and practices that they do. On the contrary, seeking "the truth" and asking critical questions about one's practices and beliefs is how all "seekers" begin their journey.

[macoooo]

When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”
◄ John 8:7 ►


The story of the harlot in the Bible is fabricated and incorrect and was not found in early manuscripts

There is complete consensus that this story is added to the Gospel of John among scholars


The Gospel of John is the only one of the 4 Gospels of the New Testament to have retained this episode of the adulterous woman, and this selection was not unanimous since the episode is absent from several manuscripts



The fact is there are 40,000 Christian sects. We can fill a football stadium with Christians, every one of them can have different beliefs. Every one of them calling themselves Christian. Every one of them having Different beliefs then you.
Can you not wrap your head around how insane this is?

How anyone can argue the Bible is not changed today is amazing honestly. Seriously, they literally continue to change it even today!

Consider the prophets, some who actually spoke to God, committing incest and worshiping idols.


“’How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? (Jeremiah 8:8)



20,000 changes!!
Why do you chose to live in denial? What does the Bible say about bearing false witness?
we are at a point where Biblical scholars say the Bible is changed.




Indeed the Bible remains but how much of it is original? I can personally guarantee God did not give the Jews permission to lend on interest.

While whats in it that is original, how much of that is ignored? Such as 32 separate verses forbidding the consumption of pork?



How about all those verses where Jesus says he can do nothing but still you ascribe divinity to him?
90 Biblical verses refute your core beliefs Red. God is not the author of confusion.


Im not surprised . Go back to 300 AD and the council of Nicea declared the prophet Jesus to be god incarnate. Shouldering right up with other pagan, 3 in 1 faiths in the vicinity.

This was the day when the devil took the reigns.. So why would i be surprised that 1700 years later there are more then 2000 Bibles?

Wanna hear something interesting ? Did you know Jews are allowed to pray in a masjid... But are forbidden to pray in a church?

. Jews consider you pagan and thier prayers to the God of Abraham would not be accepted if offered in a church.

Facinating. Isnt it? Kinda like you with your Christmas tree while the Bible calls it futile.

People hear what they want to.

The Bible has been changed and changed and mistranslation are 2 completely different things. Don't the 10 commandments forbid lying? Why is it that so many Christians try to deceive? Honestly it is changed even today as we live and breathe.

The truth is you worship a man who is constantly referred to as prophet in your book. A man who literally cried to God to save him in your book. A man who literally worshiped God in your book




ليس هناك مشكله في زنا المحارم _انجليزية ، هاشم وزائر - ركن المتحدثين - Speaker's corner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYZV-82NpqE


أنصار المثليين حاولو *يهاجمو الإسلام - شمسي Speaker's corner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAxRRGkbCMo



كيف تجرؤ أن تقل لي هذا؟ - شبير أحمد ويهودي


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmJ2EylFfgk

شاب محترم يسأل عباس عن مِلك اليمين في الإسلام وإجابة رائعة

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSV-yRbZinI

[Searcher]

Searcher As a former Catholic who fulfilled the first 4 sacraments and graduated from a Jesuit College Prep Cum Laude with 4 years of Latin study- I can say that macoooo is not "misinterpreting" Christian scripture in suggesting that the consumption of pork is not simply an "OT/mosaic law" issue but rather an issue of Paulinian doctrine differing with the practice of Jesus during his lifetime.

It should not be a comfort to anyone to boast of the number of followers who hold the same beliefs and practices that they do. On the contrary, seeking "the truth" and asking critical questions about one's practices and beliefs is how all "seekers" begin their journey.

Thank you and I take this opportunity to congratulate you on finding your path through Islam. I see there are a lot of similarities with Catholicism and Islam.

I feel I have to disagree with you regards the matter of Pork being forbidden to Christian’s. The Christ Jesus, Paul etc were Jews so obviously would not have eaten pork. The issue is, what was the stance on the gentiles. You mention Paulinian Doctrine - Paul was commissioned to take the Gospel message to the Gentile nations . In Acts chapter ten in preparing Peter to go to minister in a Gentile’s house which was forbidden of the Jews, God gave him a vision. In that vision he was requested to eat of meats described as unclean in the Old Testament among which pork was numbered. After Peter refused calling them unclean God informed him three times that He had cleansed them (Verses 10–16). Now it can be thought that this was only in reference to the inclusion of the gentiles in the new covenant but there are other relevant accounts.

In the fifteenth chapter of the same book a dispute arose among the Gentile converts whereby the Pharisees argued that they needed to be circumcised and follow Moses’ Law which would have included these dietary restrictions. A council was called and the counsel that resulted limited the dietary restrictions to meats offered to idols, to blood and to things that were strangled to death (verses 28 and 29).

A further injunction was given by Paul in the fourteenth chapter of Romans where it is stated that if this dietary liberty enjoyed by the Christian were to cause another who is weak in the faith to stumble it would be prudent to abstain for the brother’s sake (see specifically verses 13 to 17).

Colossians 2:16 and 1 Timothy 4:3 also strengthen the above arguments.

Jesus Himself said in -
Mark 7:17-23 ¹⁷ After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable.¹⁸ “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? ¹⁹ For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

²⁰ He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. ²¹ For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, ²² adultery, greed,malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. ²³ All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

The Gentiles were not under the Mosaic Law. The practice of Jesus as a Jew was to adhere to the Mosaic Law during His lifetime. By His death the Law was fulfilled we are not under the law but live under the covenant of Grace. Or those that choose to are.

I am searching because I feel it’s beholden on myself to be sure and certain in my faith. I’m not looking for a religion. I’m looking how best to have relationship with God. The Christ offers me the way to that as yet I’m not certain Islam can match what I already have. Obviously for yourself the journey was easier than mine.

[Searcher]

When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”
◄ John 8:7 ►


The story of the harlot in the Bible is fabricated and incorrect and was not found in early manuscripts

There is complete consensus that this story is added to the Gospel of John among scholars


The Gospel of John is the only one of the 4 Gospels of the New Testament to have retained this episode of the adulterous woman, and this selection was not unanimous since the episode is absent from several manuscripts



The fact is there are 40,000 Christian sects. We can fill a football stadium with Christians, every one of them can have different beliefs. Every one of them calling themselves Christian. Every one of them having Different beliefs then you.
Can you not wrap your head around how insane this is?

How anyone can argue the Bible is not changed today is amazing honestly. Seriously, they literally continue to change it even today!

Consider the prophets, some who actually spoke to God, committing incest and worshiping idols.


“’How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? (Jeremiah 8:8)



20,000 changes!!
Why do you chose to live in denial? What does the Bible say about bearing false witness?
we are at a point where Biblical scholars say the Bible is changed.




Indeed the Bible remains but how much of it is original? I can personally guarantee God did not give the Jews permission to lend on interest.

While whats in it that is original, how much of that is ignored? Such as 32 separate verses forbidding the consumption of pork?



How about all those verses where Jesus says he can do nothing but still you ascribe divinity to him?
90 Biblical verses refute your core beliefs Red. God is not the author of confusion.


Im not surprised . Go back to 300 AD and the council of Nicea declared the prophet Jesus to be god incarnate. Shouldering right up with other pagan, 3 in 1 faiths in the vicinity.

This was the day when the devil took the reigns.. So why would i be surprised that 1700 years later there are more then 2000 Bibles?

Wanna hear something interesting ? Did you know Jews are allowed to pray in a masjid... But are forbidden to pray in a church?

. Jews consider you pagan and thier prayers to the God of Abraham would not be accepted if offered in a church.

Facinating. Isnt it? Kinda like you with your Christmas tree while the Bible calls it futile.

People hear what they want to.

The Bible has been changed and changed and mistranslation are 2 completely different things. Don't the 10 commandments forbid lying? Why is it that so many Christians try to deceive? Honestly it is changed even today as we live and breathe.

The truth is you worship a man who is constantly referred to as prophet in your book. A man who literally cried to God to save him in your book. A man who literally worshiped God in your book




ليس هناك مشكله في زنا المحارم _انجليزية ، هاشم وزائر - ركن المتحدثين - Speaker's corner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYZV-82NpqE


أنصار المثليين حاولو *يهاجمو الإسلام - شمسي Speaker's corner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAxRRGkbCMo



كيف تجرؤ أن تقل لي هذا؟ - شبير أحمد ويهودي


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmJ2EylFfgk

شاب محترم يسأل عباس عن مِلك اليمين في الإسلام وإجابة رائعة

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSV-yRbZinI

I don’t feel we have anything further to discuss on this issue. But thank you for sharing your opinions. Peace

[aMuslimForLife]

Thank you and I take this opportunity to congratulate you on finding your path through Islam. I see there are a lot of similarities with Catholicism and Islam.

I don't see anything similar between Catholicism and Islam. Please expound upon that thought. What similarities do you see?

[AbuNajm]

Thank you and I take this opportunity to congratulate you on finding your path through Islam. I see there are a lot of similarities with Catholicism and Islam.

Thank you. There are definite similarities and that is not a coincidence. Both are religions that have their source in Divine Revelation.

I feel I have to disagree with you regards the matter of Pork being forbidden to Christian’s.

I may have misspoke. It is clear that pork is not forbidden in Christianity. However, what is also clear is that Jesus never consumed pork. So, there is a discrepancy, from a logical perspective, that Christianity is based on the teachings and life of Jesus, yet Paulinian doctrine and the gospels as approved and conceived of as "canonical" by the early church hold pork to be permissible.

That's all I intended to say but perhaps did no do so clearly. Apologies.

As far as the quotes you cited which appear to approve of previously prohibited food, they are clear reflections of a de facto change in adherence to "Mosaic" law by Christians AFTER the worldly life of Jesus. Sure, there are claims of "visions" and "revelations" to different people after Jesus' stay among the apostles, however, no one is obligated to accept the authority of those claims from a historical perspective. As adherents to Catholicism, the "church" and the pope as its representative are infallible sources with regard to the Divine. That's why the claims of abrogation for dietary restrictions in Mosaic law are accepted by most Christians.

As Muslims, we have a much more strict sense of "who" speaks for the Divine, who receives revelation, and who can alter religious law. All of these matters are strictly limited to Prophets and Messengers AS of which there are none aside from those mentioned in the Old Testament, John the Baptist, Zacharias, Jesus, and Muhammad AS. There can be no others who speak for the Divine aside from them. Thus, religious law cannot be altered by "visions", new "revelations", or any kind of religious authority not derived directly from revelation to Prophets and Messengers AS.

The Gentiles were not under the Mosaic Law. The practice of Jesus as a Jew was to adhere to the Mosaic Law during His lifetime. By His death the Law was fulfilled we are not under the law but live under the covenant of Grace. Or those that choose to are.

The abrogation of Mosaic law was a decision made by those who came after Jesus. They claimed authority through some kind of communication with Jesus or with God directly.

We do not accept that God intended for Divine Revelation to be altered by the death or after the death of a Prophet or Messenger AS. The whole purpose behind Prophets and Messengers AS being born and living among their respective people is to inform them of the Divine Message which could not come to them otherwise. To allow others beside Prophets and Messengers AS to convey the Divine Message, i.e. abrogate or confirm Divine Law, is to make the need for Prophets and Messengers obsolete. Of course, the Jews claim that the need for a Messiah was rendered obsolete by the completeness and fulfillment of Mosaic law through Old Testament Prophets and Messengers. While Christians made the same mistake and claimed the need for the Prophet Muhammad SAWS is obsolete because of the completeness and fulfillment of the Divine Will through the figure of Jesus AS. If those claims were true then there would be no need for further "revelation" and alterations to Divine Law by rabbis, popes, apostles, etc. after the lives of those Prophets and Messengers.

Thus, Muslims do not acknowledge alterations/abrogation to Divine Law- whether revealed to Moses or Jesus- because only a Prophet or Messenger can receive revelation leading to the abrogation or confirmation of Divine legislation.

I am searching because I feel it’s beholden on myself to be sure and certain in my faith. I’m not looking for a religion. I’m looking how best to have relationship with God. The Christ offers me the way to that as yet I’m not certain Islam can match what I already have. Obviously for yourself the journey was easier than mine.

In that we have a common goal- how best to a have a relationship with God.

Where we differ, fundamentally, is that I have learned in Islam not to allow anyone, no matter their status, or anything get in between me and my Creator. Muslims suffer from the same things that Catholics and Christians suffer from in terms of their allowing things and even their love for the Prophet Muhammad SAWS to get in between them and their Lord. That's a whole other discussion, I'm afraid.

Islam is not a proselytizing religion despite the fact that some Muslims behave like missionaries. We are all at some stage in the process of ascertaining and learning "the Truth". However, we only have this life to figure it out and there will always be some part of us that knows we haven't quite reached this ultimate goal. How far we feel from that goal often determines whether we look at other religions or not. Then, the closer we get to it, the more we focus and narrow that search. The only paradox is that when God has decided to misguide a person, then they will think they're close to "the Truth", when, in fact, they're moving further away from it.

May God not make us among those who confuse Truth for falsehood and falsehood for Truth. Ameen.

[Searcher]

I don't see anything similar between Catholicism and Islam. Please expound upon that thought. What similarities do you see?

The importance of good works for salvation. Also a similar definition of good works.

The idea of purgatory and Hell has some similarities

The use of Prayer beads.

For me I think the whole subject of Mary and how she is revered in both Catholicism and Islam, is one of the most obvious. How Mary is revered in Catholicism is not Biblical it seems to me how she is portrayed in the Quran is kind of like a reaction to the Catholic POV not the Biblical one. So if you say the Quran is correcting errors I find it a difficulty when the errors it’s correcting come from Catholic Church teaching and not Biblical teaching.

Autocratic form of church government. The Pope and Prophet Muhammad both are seen as Gods representatives on earth. Followers of both religions show a similar admiration and veneration for a human leader who dictates their beliefs and practices.

I don’t expect you to see these as similarities, but it’s my take on my comparisons so far. I can understand why Catholic Christian’s who convert to Islam find a comfort and reassurance in these similarities. For myself it’s less easy as I see Catholicism is based so much on church teaching not as much on Christ or the Bible Scriptures. Of course I would not expect my Catholic brothers to agree with that either.

[Searcher]

Thank you. There are definite similarities and that is not a coincidence. Both are religions that have their source in Divine Revelation.

That’s your belief I can respect that. Though personally I don’t feel the shared divine source is quite that obvious.

I may have misspoke. It is clear that pork is not forbidden in Christianity. However, what is also clear is that Jesus never consumed pork. So, there is a discrepancy, from a logical perspective, that Christianity is based on the teachings and life of Jesus, yet Paulinian doctrine and the gospels as approved and conceived of as "canonical" by the early church hold pork to be permissible.

That's all I intended to say but perhaps did no do so clearly. Apologies.

As far as the quotes you cited which appear to approve of previously prohibited food, they are clear reflections of a de facto change in adherence to "Mosaic" law by Christians AFTER the worldly life of Jesus. Sure, there are claims of "visions" and "revelations" to different people after Jesus' stay among the apostles, however, no one is obligated to accept the authority of those claims from a historical perspective. As adherents to Catholicism, the "church" and the pope as its representative are infallible sources with regard to the Divine. That's why the claims of abrogation for dietary restrictions in Mosaic law are accepted by most Christians.

As Muslims, we have a much more strict sense of "who" speaks for the Divine, who receives revelation, and who can alter religious law. All of these matters are strictly limited to Prophets and Messengers AS of which there are none aside from those mentioned in the Old Testament, John the Baptist, Zacharias, Jesus, and Muhammad AS. There can be no others who speak for the Divine aside from them. Thus, religious law cannot be altered by "visions", new "revelations", or any kind of religious authority not derived directly from revelation to Prophets and Messengers AS.

Jesus was a Jew of course He never consumed pork. However, He never taught that non Jews ( the gentiles) were to avoid it. The message is more important then emulating the messenger. I can dress like Jesus, try my best to emulate His behaviours that does not make me like him. By following His teachings I can hopefully become as He wished me to be, and in doing so be closer to God, which was His aim - to bring us closer to God.

The Law was fulfilled in Jesus, what need was there after that to change anything. Prophet Mohammed wasn’t mentioned in the OT or the NT. I’ve yet to see a verse that can without any doubt prove he was.

The abrogation of Mosaic law was a decision made by those who came after Jesus. They claimed authority through some kind of communication with Jesus or with God directly.

We do not accept that God intended for Divine Revelation to be altered by the death or after the death of a Prophet or Messenger AS. The whole purpose behind Prophets and Messengers AS being born and living among their respective people is to inform them of the Divine Message which could not come to them otherwise. To allow others beside Prophets and Messengers AS to convey the Divine Message, i.e. abrogate or confirm Divine Law, is to make the need for Prophets and Messengers obsolete. Of course, the Jews claim that the need for a Messiah was rendered obsolete by the completeness and fulfillment of Mosaic law through Old Testament Prophets and Messengers. While Christians made the same mistake and claimed the need for the Prophet Muhammad SAWS is obsolete because of the completeness and fulfillment of the Divine Will through the figure of Jesus AS. If those claims were true then there would be no need for further "revelation" and alterations to Divine Law by rabbis, popes, apostles, etc. after the lives of those Prophets and Messengers.

Thus, Muslims do not acknowledge alterations/abrogation to Divine Law- whether revealed to Moses or Jesus- because only a Prophet or Messenger can receive revelation leading to the abrogation or confirmation of Divine legislation.

The point still stands. The Gentiles were never under the mosaic Law. So seeing as there was no abrogation of the Mosaic law, as the Jews still follow it today. What Muslims acknowledge or not is of little consequence except how it effects Muslims who surely don’t see themselves under the Mosaic law meant for the children of Isreal. I would have thought the Quran has its own authority on that.

In that we have a common goal- how best to a have a relationship with God.

Where we differ, fundamentally, is that I have learned in Islam not to allow anyone, no matter their status, or anything get in between me and my Creator. Muslims suffer from the same things that Catholics and Christians suffer from in terms of their allowing things and even their love for the Prophet Muhammad SAWS to get in between them and their Lord. That's a whole other discussion, I'm afraid.

If people are honest with themselves, that’s all we all want a closer relationship with Almighty God. Well, people of faith at least. But should that be through One single religion. Is it possible as there myriad of nations and cultures that share this world God makes Himself known to us according to our understanding.

Islam is not a proselytizing religion despite the fact that some Muslims behave like missionaries. We are all at some stage in the process of ascertaining and learning "the Truth". However, we only have this life to figure it out and there will always be some part of us that knows we haven't quite reached this ultimate goal. How far we feel from that goal often determines whether we look at other religions or not. Then, the closer we get to it, the more we focus and narrow that search. The only paradox is that when God has decided to misguide a person, then they will think they're close to "the Truth", when, in fact, they're moving further away from it.

I do agree many Muslims do behave like missionaries but so do other religions. I never have understood the need for that. It’s not a race, one doesn’t get a reward from God for persuading one to change their path to travel yours. I see it as a personal journey. The information is given through Scripture it’s up to us to decide what path to take. I search because I want to be sure what I have as a Christian offers me enough information to make decisions. True, we only have this life to do so. For me Islam has to offer me better than what I already have I can’t see that it does. I’ve gleaned some good info on this site by reading through threads. I’m just not sure it’s anywhere near enough. It leaves so many questions unanswered. Maybe I’m done with my search .

God decides to misguide a person ! Seriously, for why! Think on that to misguide is to deceive. There is only one deceiver and It’s not God.

May God not make us among those who confuse Truth for falsehood and falsehood for Truth. Ameen.

I will add - May God in His Mercy and Wisdom guide us to His path, Amen

[Abu Sulayman]

The importance of good works for salvation. Also a similar definition of good works.

The idea of purgatory and Hell has some similarities

The use of Prayer beads.

For me I think the whole subject of Mary and how she is revered in both Catholicism and Islam, is one of the most obvious. How Mary is revered in Catholicism is not Biblical it seems to me how she is portrayed in the Quran is kind of like a reaction to the Catholic POV not the Biblical one. So if you say the Quran is correcting errors I find it a difficulty when the errors it’s correcting come from Catholic Church teaching and not Biblical teaching.

Autocratic form of church government. The Pope and Prophet Muhammad both are seen as Gods representatives on earth. Followers of both religions show a similar admiration and veneration for a human leader who dictates their beliefs and practices.

The noble Qur`an corrected the belief in trinity and the belief that Jesus (peace be upon him) is "God" and this belief is shared by both Catholics and Protestants.

We admire and venerate the noble Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the last Messenger of God sent to all mankind, while you and the Catholics worship a noble Messenger of God (meaning: Jesus, peace be upon him) as "God Himself" and let created beings define what is right and wrong.

[macoooo]

Famous vote:

In the year 325 AD, that is, about three centuries after Jesus Christ, the men of the church held a meeting to discuss the nature of Jesus: Is he a human being, a messenger or a god embodied in a human being? After long discussions, the meeting concluded that he was an apostle. But the decision did not please the Emperor of Constantinople at the time, so he dissolved the Synod and appointed new priests. Discussions took place and they came to the decision for which the emperor appointed them; It is that Christ is a human God. Thus, Jesus attained the rank of gods by voting, and at that time, Jesus was the first to be appointed as a god by voting!

Finally, the evil of the scourge is what laughs!

revised edition:

There is an edition of the Christian book editions called the "Revised Edition" that is: revised and amended. How is it permissible to revise a book that is the word of God?! How do they fix it?! The word of God is not tampered with by anyone, neither revision nor revision nor addition..

الشيخ عثمان ابن فاروق وهروب المسيحي من الرد المفحم

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt85_Ul-O3U

النصراني في الفخ - أحمد ديدات صغير يغير موازين النقاش Speaker's corner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUCNOIjD2HQ

غير مسلم يسأل الداعيه المسلم شمسي عن الخمر والجنة

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTM_swOOO-M

لماذا اعتنقت الإسلام؟ - حمزة في حوار مع زائر
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcJWY0iXZGc

[Abu Sulayman]

I feel I have to disagree with you regards the matter of Pork being forbidden to Christian’s. The Christ Jesus, Paul etc were Jews so obviously would not have eaten pork. The issue is, what was the stance on the gentiles. You mention Paulinian Doctrine - Paul was commissioned to take the Gospel message to the Gentile nations . In Acts chapter ten in preparing Peter to go to minister in a Gentile’s house which was forbidden of the Jews, God gave him a vision. In that vision he was requested to eat of meats described as unclean in the Old Testament among which pork was numbered. After Peter refused calling them unclean God informed him three times that He had cleansed them (Verses 10–16). Now it can be thought that this was only in reference to the inclusion of the gentiles in the new covenant but there are other relevant accounts.

In the fifteenth chapter of the same book a dispute arose among the Gentile converts whereby the Pharisees argued that they needed to be circumcised and follow Moses’ Law which would have included these dietary restrictions. A council was called and the counsel that resulted limited the dietary restrictions to meats offered to idols, to blood and to things that were strangled to death (verses 28 and 29).

A further injunction was given by Paul in the fourteenth chapter of Romans where it is stated that if this dietary liberty enjoyed by the Christian were to cause another who is weak in the faith to stumble it would be prudent to abstain for the brother’s sake (see specifically verses 13 to 17).

Colossians 2:16 and 1 Timothy 4:3 also strengthen the above arguments.

Jesus Himself said in -
Mark 7:17-23 ¹⁷ After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable.¹⁸ “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? ¹⁹ For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

²⁰ He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. ²¹ For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, ²² adultery, greed,malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. ²³ All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

The Gentiles were not under the Mosaic Law. The practice of Jesus as a Jew was to adhere to the Mosaic Law during His lifetime. By His death the Law was fulfilled we are not under the law but live under the covenant of Grace. Or those that choose to are.

We believe that Allah - the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth - alone has the right to decide what is lawful and what is unlawful.
The Prophets and Messengers of God inform their people regarding God's commands and prohibitions for them.

As for giving this right to the creation, then this is taking them as Lords besides God in the Islamic understanding.

This means that in our view Christians are guilty of declaring a Messenger of God as "God Himself" and as taking their priests / scholars as Lords besides God:

{ They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allāh, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him. }

[English interpretation of the Aya 9:31 of the noble Qur`an]

[Searcher]

We believe that Allah - the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth - alone has the right to decide what is lawful and what is unlawful.
The Prophets and Messengers of God inform their people regarding God's commands and prohibitions for them.

As for giving this right to the creation, then this is taking them as Lords besides God in the Islamic understanding.

This means that in our view Christians are guilty of declaring a Messenger of God as "God Himself" and as taking their priests / scholars as Lords besides God:

{ They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allāh, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him. }

[English interpretation of the Aya 9:31 of the noble Qur`an]

If that were a true fact I would indeed be worried. I accept it’s your understanding as a Muslim. Thankfully, I don’t have to unduly worry how you as a Muslim interpret the beliefs of others. You’re not my judge in this world or the next. I put my faith in the Lord my God who is my judge.

I would like to thank you and others for the information provided in shared discussion, you personally have always been helpful and courteous, I appreciate that. I shall continue to celebrate the positive similarities between our respective faiths, there are plenty if you take the time to look. Also, reading through other sections of the forum has been enlightening in many ways.

Ultimately, I feel we are all searching for the same thing, which is relationship with The Creator God. Maybe it’s a case of searching too hard. Peace ☮️

[macoooo]

Now

pilgrimage in Mecca and visit the grave of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him in Medina


One of the five pillars of Islam central to Muslim belief, Hajj is the pilgrimage to Mecca that every Muslim must make at least once in their lifetime if they are able; it is the most spiritual event that a Muslim experiences, observing rituals in the most sacred places in the Islamic world. Mecca is the birthplace of the Prophet Muhammad. The sanctuary there with the Ka‘ba is the holiest site in Islam. As such, it is a deeply spiritual destination for Muslims all over the world; it is the heart of Islam.
At the heart of the sanctuary at Mecca lies the Ka’ba, the cube-shaped building that Muslims believe was built by Abraham and his son Ishmael. It was in Mecca that the Prophet Muhammad received the first revelations in the early 7th century.

Therefore the city has long been viewed as a spiritual centre and the heart of Islam. The rituals involved with Hajj have remained unchanged since its beginning, and it continues to be a powerful religious undertaking which draws Muslims together from all over the world, irrespective of nationality or sect.


Even before Islam, Mecca was an important site of pilgrimage for the Arab tribes of north and central Arabia. Although they believed in many deities, they came once a year to worship Allah at Mecca. During this sacred month, violence was forbidden within Mecca and this allowed trade to flourish. As a result, Mecca became an important commercial centre. The revelation of Islam to the Prophet Muhammad (d. 632) restored the ancient religion of the One God to the Arab people and transformed Mecca into the holiest city in the Islamic world.



www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTJZXfaY54w



Dr Zakir Naik about Hajj e badal and Does stonning during hajj hurt shaitan?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjoQ5-mn2rU



بث مبهج للمسلمين الجدد وفيه يردون على أسئلتكم ويتحدثون عن صعوباتهم بعد النطق بالشهادة

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5jEMbBrGng
مسيحيون سئموا من صراخ هذا المبشر - منصور في حوار مع مسيحيين
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK-J7brmUTw
الشرطة تتجاهل طلب عدنان بإيقاف مضايقات مبشر مسيحي للمسلمين

www.youtube.com/watch?v=713Xm8QTinM