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  • #76
    Originally posted by Momof6 View Post
    ...(It doesn't seem logical to me that God of the universe would limit His infallible, excellent Word to a single language when there are untold people groups representing the 1+ billion muslims in the world.)
    Do you claim that the Bible was revealed in several different languages? If not, how is it logical?

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

      Before even seeing the evidence, you suggest you will not find it convincing? And you ask why I doubt your sincerity?

      Are you no different from the arrogant disbelievers of old?

      Even when they were shown literal miracles they disbelieved, and it would seem you are likewise. You have made your judgement without even looking at the evidence, as Pharoah made his judgement before he saw Moses throw down the staff. And when it became a snake, Pharoah accused him of common magical trickery, though there were magicians in his presence who realised, "This is the Truth" and fell into prostration, worshipping the God of Moses. Pharoah concocted an explanation for he would not believe the truth.

      You accuse me of doing this - reaching a conclusion and passing judgement, when you have done it yourself. In your doing so, have you already proven my observation true?
      That’s not what I said at all. I said I could not promise I would find it convincing. Main reason for that I find your explanations a little difficult to follow. The links you have taken time to kindly provide for information are in Arabic, then you helpfully suggested I google translate it. Have you ever used google translate for Arabic to English? It just doesn’t work.

      Arrogant disbelievers of old! Ok thanks for that. I will just mention in passing I not aware I accused you of anything. We’re having a discussion here are we not? Maybe we should start afresh or call it a day 🤔

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

        Evidences against you in the other Thread, and what should happen if you deny

        As for me I will convey some of the evidences of my religion to you and to the other Christian on here. I don't do it thinking you will believe - that is between you and your Lord, but I will do it simply to establish evidence against you, so you have no excuse on the day of judgement. I will insha'Allah (God-willing) be rewarded for conveying the message regardless of whether you believe.

        For the nations were destroyed after they rejected the evidences of the Prophets Alayhim Salam, so too shall you be destroyed if you deny. If you deny, you will live your life in doubt and when you die the angels of frightening appearance shall seize you. Then, if it is the case that you deny, on the day of judgement your treasonous blasphemy against The Lord Most High will be known. Then, if it is the case that you deny, you will be thrown into eternal torture. You would neither live nor die - for how can it be said that the inhabitant of Hell lives?

        Seven evidences.

        That will be enough to seal your fate.

        If you believe

        Then if you believe, then you will have believed in the religion of Isa Alayhis Salam and Muhammad Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam. That is the religion of worshipping one God alone, associating nothing with Him in divinity, not even his noble Prophets such as the two aforementioned, nor the angels, nor any other noble creation nor ignoble creation. Then you will attain everlasting bliss.

        If you believe, you will enter into Paradise in the hereafter, for even if you sin (and the Most Capable decides to punish you) then you will enter it eventually. In their you will have whatever you desire, whatever you wish for you will get. If you believe, you will live in gardens under wich rivers flow, rivers of Honey and Milk. Such rivers that even mentioned in the scriptures of old. The least of them in Paradise shall have a Kingdom, fifty times that of the Kingdoms of Earth. You will look beautiful and of majestic appearance, pleasing to your spouse. You will reside therein, drinking the Elixiers of Paradise, and anything you request. You will be able to change your form to whatever you desire, as mentioned in some traditions. You will eat the flesh of fouls that you desire and the fruits of Paradise will eternally taste better. Your private desires will too be met, and far in excess of the pleasure of this world will you feel. You will have children if you wish for them. You will never feel pain or tiredness, you will not need to even defecate. You will never hear nor speak ill. You will reside there and do whatever you wish, being able to even explore large trees the journey time of which is five hundred years. Perhaps you wish for yourself to be lost in some alternate world, not unlike the worldy enjoyment present today. But what is in Jannah is ever-greater than the weak concoctions of man. You can wish in Jannah for even sentimental things - a person who enjoyed farming will be given a farm if he wishes for it. You will reside there for eternity, never will you will.

        You will have one other reward aside from Paradise itself. That is to see and gaze upon the One and Only God, the Beautific Vision. That is such a reward that it is said a man will stare at the Most Merciful for five hundred years, not wanting to do anything else. Can you imagine this? He who is absolutely nothing else. Nothing you mind can concoct even if you had seen everything else that could possibly exist. He who transcends even the physical, trasncends even the dimensions, transcends even space and time. You will see Him.

        That is if you believe.

        If you disbelieve

        If you disbelieve, then you will have what I already described as the punishment for those who deny: Eternel Damnation. You will reside in Hell (Jahannam). You will never leave, for you have disbelieved in the one who created you despite clear evidences being brought to you. You will drink boiling lead, and you will taste it and feel it inside you. Whenever your skin roasts, you will be given fresh skin so you can feel the pain forever. There are specific punishments for the crimes you have commited besides disbelief too, such as the smashing of one's head, one's face ripped apart from the mouth, swallowing stones and being forced to swim with them etc. In all of this the criminal shall be healed and then made to repeat the punishment. You will burn in a searing fire and be tortured in an icy cold region of Hell (Zamharir). You will find no respite. You will drink the bodily fluids of the other disbelievers, all of you ugly creatures. You will eat disgusting "fruits" shaped as the heads of devils from a cursed tree. What room will you have in Jahannam? No privacy will you have in your eternal abode. And never, ever will it end.

        This is all if you disbelieve.
        I’m unsure how to respond to this as evidence of your truth of the religion of Islam. Did you choose this as its within the scope of the post “Heaven”? How is it proof? Am I supposed to measure it against the idea of Heaven V Hell in Christianity?

        As Christians already believe in the One True God, who has no need of partners etc. The difference then has to be in accepting Prophet Mohammed as the final a prophet for all mankind. Is this a fair assessment?

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

          Musa Alayhis Salam complained that his chest would constrict in such discussions with the arrogant and rebellious disbelievers. If I have that trait, then I am happy to have the trait of a noble Prophet. Allah strengthened him with Harun Alayhis Salam, his brother and minister. He was eloquent in speech and patient.

          We will see how you react to the evidences I provide you.

          Please accept my humble apology. I said in my post to you that you provided links in Arabic and suggested I translate them using google. Sorry, that wasn’t you. It was another member. 🙏

          Comment


          • #80
            I’m thinking it would be better if I just continued to read posts on the forum and find out info that way. Rather than entering into discussion. :)

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

              Do you claim that the Bible was revealed in several different languages? If not, how is it logical?
              The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, the New Testament (injeel) in Greek because that was the language of the authors. It has been translated into many languages from these original manuscripts since then, to make it accessible to all language groups. God's inspired Word is for every tribe and people and nation and tongue. You could read it in arabic if you like.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Searcher View Post

                I’m unsure how to respond to this as evidence of your truth of the religion of Islam. Did you choose this as its within the scope of the post “Heaven”? How is it proof? Am I supposed to measure it against the idea of Heaven V Hell in Christianity?

                As Christians already believe in the One True God, who has no need of partners etc. The difference then has to be in accepting Prophet Mohammed as the final a prophet for all mankind. Is this a fair assessment?
                Did you think that my post you quoted contains the 7 evidences I am promising you?

                So this tells me you're so terrified of what I may say, that you don't even read my posts fully.

                I am pre-empting given them to you, by telling you what happens if you deny and what happens if you accept. No I have not given the seven evidences to you, they will be clear and obviously marked in a completely seperate discussion.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Searcher View Post
                  I’m thinking it would be better if I just continued to read posts on the forum and find out info that way. Rather than entering into discussion. :)
                  No, no you're not getting away, when I provide you two with those seven proofs, I want a response.

                  I will insha'Allah also challenge you to a Mubahala afterwards if you disbelieve.
                  Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 29-07-21, 08:50 PM. Reason: Some frightened skim-reader will read two proofs.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Momof6 View Post

                    The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, the New Testament (injeel) in Greek because that was the language of the authors...
                    How is it logical to you that the OT was written in Hebrew only and the NT in Greek (lol) only when there were/were other languages around?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Momof6 View Post

                      The Old Testament was written in Hebrew, the New Testament (injeel) in Greek because that was the language of the authors. It has been translated into many languages from these original manuscripts since then, to make it accessible to all language groups. God's inspired Word is for every tribe and people and nation and tongue. You could read it in arabic if you like.
                      Quran has also been translated into most languages, certainly all major languages.

                      https://quran.com/ - Good website to access various translations from multiple languages online, contains multiple good quality English translations. I would recommend Abdul Haleem, Pickthall, Sahih International and Fadel Solimani, those are the ones I typically quote on here.

                      If you want to be more involved though:

                      https://corpus.quran.com/ - Good website for grammar/word analysis of verses.

                      https://lexicon.quranic-research.net/ - Arabic Dictionary by word root.
                      Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 29-07-21, 09:26 PM. Reason: Add. Sahih International

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Excellent! Thank you very much Muhammad.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Momof6 View Post
                          Excellent! Thank you very much Muhammad.
                          Oh there are three christians posting on here, I mistook you for MCBridge.

                          Well what I said to the other two about soon (insha'Allah - God willing) providing them with 7 proofs of Islam on a seperate thread will also apply to you.

                          Review the following:

                          Evidences against you in the other Thread, and what should happen if you deny

                          As for me I will convey some of the evidences of my religion to you and to the other Christian on here. I don't do it thinking you will believe - that is between you and your Lord, but I will do it simply to establish evidence against you, so you have no excuse on the day of judgement. I will insha'Allah (God-willing) be rewarded for conveying the message regardless of whether you believe.

                          For the nations were destroyed after they rejected the evidences of the Prophets Alayhim Salam, so too shall you be destroyed if you deny. If you deny, you will live your life in doubt and when you die the angels of frightening appearance shall seize you. Then, if it is the case that you deny, on the day of judgement your treasonous blasphemy against The Lord Most High will be known. Then, if it is the case that you deny, you will be thrown into eternal torture. You would neither live nor die - for how can it be said that the inhabitant of Hell lives?

                          Seven evidences.

                          That will be enough to seal your fate.

                          If you disbelieve

                          If you disbelieve, then you will have what I already described as the punishment for those who deny: Eternel Damnation. You will reside in Hell (Jahannam). You will never leave, for you have disbelieved in the one who created you despite clear evidences being brought to you. You will drink boiling lead, and you will taste it and feel it inside you. Whenever your skin roasts, you will be given fresh skin so you can feel the pain forever. There are specific punishments for the crimes you have commited besides disbelief too, such as the smashing of one's head, one's face ripped apart from the mouth, swallowing stones and being forced to swim with them etc. In all of this the criminal shall be healed and then made to repeat the punishment. You will burn in a searing fire and be tortured in an icy cold region of Hell (Zamharir). You will find no respite. You will drink the bodily fluids of the other disbelievers, all of you ugly creatures. You will eat disgusting "fruits" shaped as the heads of devils from a cursed tree. What room will you have in Jahannam? No privacy will you have in your eternal abode. And never, ever will it end.

                          This is all if you disbelieve.

                          If you believe

                          Then if you believe, then you will have believed in the religion of Isa Alayhis Salam and Muhammad Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam. That is the religion of worshipping one God alone, associating nothing with Him in divinity, not even his noble Prophets such as the two aforementioned, nor the angels, nor any other noble creation nor ignoble creation. Then you will attain everlasting bliss.

                          If you believe, you will enter into Paradise in the hereafter, for even if you sin (and the Most Capable decides to punish you) then you will enter it eventually. In their you will have whatever you desire, whatever you wish for you will get. If you believe, you will live in gardens under wich rivers flow, rivers of Honey and Milk. Such rivers that even mentioned in the scriptures of old. The least of them in Paradise shall have a Kingdom, fifty times that of the Kingdoms of Earth. You will look beautiful and of majestic appearance, pleasing to your spouse. You will reside therein, drinking the Elixiers of Paradise, and anything you request. You will be able to change your form to whatever you desire, as mentioned in some traditions. You will eat the flesh of fouls that you desire and the fruits of Paradise will eternally taste better. Your private desires will too be met, and far in excess of the pleasure of this world will you feel. You will have children if you wish for them. You will never feel pain or tiredness, you will not need to even defecate. You will never hear nor speak ill. You will reside there and do whatever you wish, being able to even explore large trees the journey time of which is five hundred years. Perhaps you wish for yourself to be lost in some alternate world, not unlike the worldy enjoyment present today. But what is in Jannah is ever-greater than the weak concoctions of man. You can wish in Jannah for even sentimental things - a person who enjoyed farming will be given a farm if he wishes for it. You will reside there for eternity, never will you will leave or die.

                          You will have one other reward aside from Paradise itself. That is to see and gaze upon the One and Only God, the Beautific Vision. That is such a reward that it is said a man will stare at the Most Merciful for five hundred years, not wanting to do anything else. Can you imagine this? He who is absolutely nothing else. Nothing your mind can concoct even if you had seen everything else that could possibly exist. He who transcends even the physical, trasncends even the dimensions, transcends even space and time. You will see Him.

                          That is if you believe.
                          And as I've said above to your accomplice, if you then deny those seven then we will move onto a Mubahala. I am happy to do so alone against you three, but if other Muslims on the forum wish to join me then they can do so - I will insha'Allah state how we will do it after I make that new topic and only if you disbelieve.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Thank you Muhammad. I can see you are sincere.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

                              Oh there are three christians posting on here, I mistook you for MCBridge.

                              Well what I said to the other two about soon (insha'Allah - God willing) providing them with 7 proofs of Islam on a seperate thread will also apply to you.

                              Review the following:



                              And as I've said above to your accomplice, if you then deny those seven then we will move onto a Mubahala. I am happy to do so alone against you three, but if other Muslims on the forum wish to join me then they can do so - I will insha'Allah state how we will do it after I make that new topic and only if you disbelieve.
                              Why on earth are you threatening a mubahala? Do you want them to be cursed.

                              Your weak attempt at dawah in which you lose patience the second you aren't agreed with does not constitute an evidence. What you are doing is throwing a cup of water in there face then saying see I gave you a drink of water now let's curse each other if you believe I didn't

                              Remember how rasullah sallaho alayhi wa Sallam dealt with taif and compare that to the tantrum you are throwing

                              If something doesn't work keep trying until you find something that does.

                              If you can't call people to Islam without being so immature I suggest you find something more suited to your temperament.

                              Each person has inside a basic decency and goodness. If he listens to it and acts on it, he is giving a great deal of what it is the world needs most. It is not complicated but it takes courage. It takes courage for a person to listen to his own goodness and act on it.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Salaam eesa, you honour Islam by respecting the power of mubahala and holding a brother accountable.

                                Since I already sit under the protection of Isa and He is stronger than anything evil jin or even satan can throw at me, I am not afraid of Muhammad's curse, but I thank you for speaking up.

                                Comment

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