Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Jake Brancatella and James White

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Jake Brancatella and James White

    Assalamu alaykum,

    Thought I would share this for those who weren't aware and might be interested.



    Brother Jake's YouTube channel:

    https://youtube.com/c/TheMuslimMetaphysician

  • #2
    Skip to 24:30:

    https://youtu.be/rsfeGtV3Wpo

    Comment


    • #3
      Not directly related but it involves James White:

      https://youtu.be/BRQA5qaH7LQ

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
        Assalamu alaykum,

        Thought I would share this for those who weren't aware and might be interested.



        Brother Jake's YouTube channel:

        https://youtube.com/c/TheMuslimMetaphysician
        Interesting, perhaps our brother reads Ummah forum from time to time. Allahu Alam.

        This is the first time I am coming across this channel apart from mention in other videos I've watched (ones that a brother linked before). I look forward to any debate between our brother and this christian theologian. And insha'Allah, as Allah's decree was for one whom Shaykh Deedat debated, this christian theologian will accept Islam.

        Comment


        • #5

          Comment


          • #6
            Dividing Line featuring Jake Brancatella:

            https://youtu.be/yd1kILnZOLw

            Comment


            • #7
              Let's hope this session will be more fruitful than the previous one.

              Comment


              • #8
                James White attempts to explain the discrepency between the ante-Nicene Fathers and later understandings of the Trinity:

                https://youtu.be/dsGOeBCI0sU

                So, apparently he doesn't have an issue with confirming that later Christians - after centuries of trial and error - arrived at a more accurate conception of God than their insufficient and technically heretical predecessors? If the Trinity is confirmed as being a theological development over centuries of examination, then this would suggest that the earliest Christians and even the historical Jesus were not orthodox Trinitarians. The early Christian communities would also have the same problem of only having a limited amount of material to base their theology on, never mind those who didn't even agree with all the books of the New Testament as being sacred scripture.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Jake Brancatella vs. James White on the Dividing Line:

                  https://youtu.be/HhoZm8mQHys

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
                    Jake Brancatella vs. James White on the Dividing Line:

                    https://youtu.be/HhoZm8mQHys
                    Clear victory for the Islamic position. May Allah guide many Christians to the truth at the hands of brother Jake. Ameen.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
                      Jake Brancatella vs. James White on the Dividing Line:

                      https://youtu.be/HhoZm8mQHys
                      Perhaps the strongest argument James White put forward in the entire debate was the allegation that the Quran misunderstands Mary(pbuh) as being part of the trinity. However, this is an uncharitable reading of the Quran and assuming the very worst of the author.

                      The author of the Quran is clearly familiar with the stories of the previous Prophets(pbut), the names of the books that were revealed to them, and even nuanced details including instances of cleaning up the stories and corrupted passages. It also mentions Jesus' miraculous birth, his coming in sequence after John the Baptist, his miracles, his title as the 'Messiah' and a 'word' from Him, as well as him being supported with the Holy Spirit in 2:87. As such, to claim that the author was ignorant of what the Trinity consisted of after He explicitly condemned its affirmation amongst Christians ("Do not say 'three' ") would create a greater problem in explaining the author's alleged ignorance in light of how obvious it was from a historical standpoint. If he knew all of the information that was included in the Quran regarding Jesus and his mother, then he must have also knew that the Christians considered the Holy Spirit to be God simply by extention. Not to mention the Prophet's(saws) interactions with the Jews of Medina, ex-Christian companions, as well as the delegation of Christians he gave Da'wah to, who could have easily pulled his card or at least informed him about this supposed blunder with regards to such wide-spread Christian beliefs.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I am surprised that he used the argument that the Islamic conception of God "breaks away from the flow" of revelation by asserting the Tawheed conception of God after the New Testament. Because this can actually be easily used against Christianity itself, like Jake rightfully pointed how, ironically, Jewish people agree with Islamic conception of God far more than the Christian conception of Trinitarian God and some Jewish rabbis even considering Trinity to be polytheism, something I even put forward to MCBridge in his thread. If anything it is the Christian conception of God that is the "odd one out" amongst the three.


                        Last edited by notEVOLVED; 23-07-21, 06:25 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
                          Let's hope this session will be more fruitful than the previous one.

                          Just use the Tweet ID between the tags instead of the full link. Otherwise it isn't visible. At least in Tapatalk.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by notEVOLVED View Post
                            I am surprised that he used the argument that the Islamic conception of God "breaks away from the flow" of revelation by asserting the Tawheed conception of God after the New Testament. Because this can actually be easily used against Christianity itself, like Jake rightfully pointed how, ironically, Jewish people agree with Islamic conception of God far more than the Christian conception of Trinitarian God and some Jewish rabbis even considering Trinity to be polytheism, something I even put forward to MCBridge in his thread. If anything it is the Christian conception of God that is the "odd one out" amongst the three.

                            I think what James White was referring to there was the apparent discontinuity between the Quran and its lack of directly utilizing the previous scriptures unlike the New Testament attempting to harmonize itself with the Jewish Bible. Jake was right to point out that the discrepancies between the God of the Christians and that of the Jews is a far greater problem than the speculative allegations made against the Quran's author misunderstanding normative Christian beliefs.

                            Muslim apologists typically claim that the Quran is not a book on Church history and heresiology. I don't think it is right to assume that Allah revealed all of these verses with the intention of teaching the early Muslims what to believe about every Christian, but rather it was primarily intended to serve as a warning and argument against the people of the book who were already familiar with the reality of their tradition. This could explain why some of the commentators and early Muslims may have had a mistaken notion of concepts like the Trinity, since the Arabs were not familiar with the details of these religions at the very early stages of Islam. I also wouldn't have a problem conceding the possibility that the Prophet himself(saws) might have not known the details of Christian theology outside of what was revealed to him by Allah, considering that the stories in the Quran were not known to him prior to their revelation according to 12:3. Although this would only be applicable in light of me believing that the author of the Quran is none other than Allah who is omniscient, otherwise the naturalistic arguments provided in post #11 would still stand on their own. However, this would not suggest that I believe the Prophet(saws) held or taught incorrect theological beliefs to his audiences, but perhaps he might have only went as far as the revelation informed him without exceeding the limits - similiar to him not knowing the answers to the questions the Jews would ask him until Allah had revealed information concerning them. Interestingly, the Prophet Jesus(as) was mentioned in the Quran to have been taught the Torah and the Gospel, while the Prophethood of Muhammad(saws) is bolstered with him being "Nabi al-Ummi".
                            Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 24-07-21, 04:18 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              James White vs. Jake Brancatella debate review:

                              https://youtu.be/MhI0tn3Aw_s
                              Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 23-07-21, 08:21 PM. Reason: Wrong link.

                              Comment

                              Collapse

                              Edit this module to specify a template to display.

                              Working...
                              X