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  • Friend of God
    replied
    Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

    Don't you think that means dominion over the lands of Palestine, not the heavenly throne?

    Also out of interest, do you as a Christian believe God is physically above the throne?
    The easy answer to your question is "No - it is not talking about the lands of Palestine"
    But I'm sure you want a more thought out and detailed answer!
    After King David died the kingdom of his son started to decline and was eventually split up, defeated and the population went in to exile. Later some of the people returned to Palestine but they never had a political king again.
    However the concept of David's throne being an eternal one continued to be talked about and the prophets, (Isaiah Chapter 16, Jeremiah chapter 23 and 33, Ezekiel chapter 34 and 37) declared that a king would reign on David's throne for ever. Although some of the imagery used talks about a geographical place the context of the declarations make it clear that the kingdom will be a spiritual one made up of people redeemed and purified and protected by God.
    So I see the concept of “throne” as an image of authority. So, God's throne is talking about God's authority and therefore the one who "sits on God's throne" is one who has God's authority. It seems that the prophets saw the throne of David and the throne of God as one and the same as they are both eternal concepts with the person who sits on the throne acting in God's place and in his name e.g. judging the world and ruling in righteousness.

    I think ayet al kursi has the same idea Qur’an 2:255 His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, Could be translated his authority – some translations say his kingdom which is basically the same concept.
    So because the idea of throne is symbolic to talk about God being physically above the throne is not really a valid question.

    Hope this helps

    Leave a comment:


  • Muhammad Hasan
    replied
    Originally posted by Friend of God View Post
    The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.
    Don't you think that means dominion over the lands of Palestine, not the heavenly throne?

    Also out of interest, do you as a Christian believe God is physically above the throne?
    Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 4 weeks ago.

    Leave a comment:


  • Friend of God
    replied
    Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

    Subhanallah, even amongst Ahlul Kitab their remains some wisdom
    Thank you!!! :-)

    Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

    Who is the one that sits on God's Throne?
    Please note I am not proselytizing I am answering the question in accordence with the way I read the scriptures.

    The verses I quote from the Prophet Isaiah were writen 500-700 years before Jesus the Messiah was born.
    In the story that Luke tells about the Angel anouncing the birth of Jesus - see Luke 1 we read:

    30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.

    Leave a comment:


  • Muhammad Hasan
    replied
    Originally posted by Friend of God View Post

    Yes to prostrate is such a powerful statement before God. May our hearts as well as our bodies bow in humility before God.

    No nation or human empire lasts. Those who are proud always come to an end and will ultimately fall.
    Subhanallah, even amongst Ahlul Kitab their remains some wisdom

    The only kingdom that is eternal is the kingdom of God and the only ruler who will reign for ever is the one who sits on God's throne. The Prophet Isaiah who wrote God's words 2500 years ago looked forward to a time when (Isaiah 9)

    6 For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given,
    and the government will be on his shoulders.
    And he will be called
    Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
    7 Of the greatness of his government and peace
    there will be no end.

    He will reign on David’s throne
    and over his kingdom,
    establishing and upholding it
    with justice and righteousness
    from that time on and forever.
    The zeal of the Lord Almighty
    will accomplish this.
    Who is the one that sits on God's Throne?

    Leave a comment:


  • Friend of God
    replied
    Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

    So what do you say of a civilisation whose pride reaches for the heavens?

    Do you not think he will humble them?

    In Salah after standing we prostrate.
    Yes to prostrate is such a powerful statement before God. May our hearts as well as our bodies bow in humility before God.

    No nation or human empire lasts. Those who are proud always come to an end and will ultimately fall. The only kingdom that is eternal is the kingdom of God and the only ruler who will reign for ever is the one who sits on God's throne. The Prophet Isaiah who wrote God's words 2500 years ago looked forward to a time when (Isaiah 9)

    6 For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given,
    and the government will be on his shoulders.
    And he will be called
    Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
    7 Of the greatness of his government and peace
    there will be no end.

    He will reign on David’s throne
    and over his kingdom,
    establishing and upholding it
    with justice and righteousness
    from that time on and forever.
    The zeal of the Lord Almighty
    will accomplish this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Muhammad Hasan
    replied
    Originally posted by Friend of God View Post

    Thank you for sharing this interesting ayet. May we all learn how to avoid being arrogant. Humility is such an important charactaristic - Mary the Mother of Jesus said about God: Luke 1
    His mercy extends to those who fear him,
    from generation to generation.
    51 He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
    he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.
    52 He has brought down rulers from their thrones
    but has lifted up the humble.
    53 He has filled the hungry with good things
    but has sent the rich away empty.
    So what do you say of a civilisation whose pride reaches for the heavens?

    Do you not think he will humble them?

    In Salah after standing we prostrate.

    Leave a comment:


  • Friend of God
    replied
    Originally posted by rahmat89 View Post
    Bismillah
    You will surely find the most bitter towards the believers to be the Jews and polytheists and the most gracious to be those who call themselves Christian. That is because there are priests and monks among them and because they are not arrogant.

    Al-maidah 82.
    Thank you for sharing this interesting ayet. May we all learn how to avoid being arrogant. Humility is such an important charactaristic - Mary the Mother of Jesus said about God: Luke 1
    His mercy extends to those who fear him,
    from generation to generation.
    51 He has performed mighty deeds with his arm;
    he has scattered those who are proud in their inmost thoughts.
    52 He has brought down rulers from their thrones
    but has lifted up the humble.
    53 He has filled the hungry with good things
    but has sent the rich away empty.

    Leave a comment:


  • rahmat89
    replied
    Bismillah
    You will surely find the most bitter towards the believers to be the Jews and polytheists and the most gracious to be those who call themselves Christian. That is because there are priests and monks among them and because they are not arrogant.

    Al-maidah 82.

    Leave a comment:


  • Muhammad Hasan
    replied
    Originally posted by TheHaqq View Post

    Well that's a lie.

    Firstly it was Abu Bakr that waged war against the apostates.

    Secondly, there is ikhtilaaf on whether or not he made takfeer on the ones who refused to pay zakah, some scholars said that there is no indication he did, rather he fought them as ahlul baghy, others say he did make takfeer.

    Thirdly, even if he did make takfeer on them, the scholars differed as to the reason of takfeer on the refusers of zakah.

    Why is voting in democracy automatically shirk? You have over simplified the issue.
    It's not a lie - the brother simply didn't know. But one should not attribute something to the Prophet Alayhis Salam without evidence. He knows to do that now.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheHaqq
    replied
    Originally posted by abdurrahman View Post
    Yet the prophet SAW made takfeer on people who do not pay zakah even though they prayed and waged jihad against them, than what about those who vote for democracy?!
    Well that's a lie.

    Firstly it was Abu Bakr that waged war against the apostates.

    Secondly, there is ikhtilaaf on whether or not he made takfeer on the ones who refused to pay zakah, some scholars said that there is no indication he did, rather he fought them as ahlul baghy, others say he did make takfeer.

    Thirdly, even if he did make takfeer on them, the scholars differed as to the reason of takfeer on the refusers of zakah.

    Why is voting in democracy automatically shirk? You have over simplified the issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • abdurrahman
    replied
    Originally posted by Friend of God View Post
    The warnings in our faiths about being hypocritical are so powerful. There are so many who do the 'right' actions but their hearts are far from God. It seems to be a problem throughout the ages.
    So the question we need to ask ourselves is "How can I be sure that my heart is right with God?" When our hearts are right with God then the things we do will come from a good heart and reflect that goodness. Whereas the actions of a Hypocrite are superemposed from the outside on to a dirty and shameful inside.
    Jesus the Messiah is reported to have said (Matthew chapter 23)
    27 ‘Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
    We need clean hearts to do clean deeds.
    Did u know that u Christians believe in the same God as Muslims, but the only difference is that you say that God has begotten a son. Did u know that we muslims love and respect Jesus (Eesa a.s) because he is one of the prophets of God?

    They say: "(Allah) hath begotten a son" :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him. - 2:116

    It is fitrah of all humans to believe in the oneness of God, but than their parents make them pagans by believing in trinity or worshipping idols...etc
    Last edited by abdurrahman; 25-11-20, 02:39 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • abdurrahman
    replied
    Originally posted by TheHaqq View Post

    I like how you use a verse that was revealed for the mushrikeen against the muslims who say the shahadah.

    Your explanation of the verse is completely wrong, read the tafseer.
    Yet the prophet SAW made takfeer on people who do not pay zakah even though they prayed and waged jihad against them, than what about those who vote for democracy?!
    Last edited by abdurrahman; 25-11-20, 02:04 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Friend of God
    replied
    Originally posted by almuwahhid23 View Post
    Nowadays many people who commit crimes or they commit shirk by believing in democracy will call themselves Muslim. But Allah tells us in the Qur'an that most of people believe not in Him even though they call themselves Muslim.

    And most of them believe not in Allah except while they associate others with Him. 12:106

    And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying. 6:116

    Allah talks about hypocrites in the Qur'an

    And there are some who say, “We believe in Allah and the Last Day,” yet they are not believers.
    They seek to deceive Allah and the believers, yet they only deceive themselves, but they fail to perceive it. 2:8-9
    The warnings in our faiths about being hypocritical are so powerful. There are so many who do the 'right' actions but their hearts are far from God. It seems to be a problem throughout the ages.
    So the question we need to ask ourselves is "How can I be sure that my heart is right with God?" When our hearts are right with God then the things we do will come from a good heart and reflect that goodness. Whereas the actions of a Hypocrite are superemposed from the outside on to a dirty and shameful inside.
    Jesus the Messiah is reported to have said (Matthew chapter 23)
    27 ‘Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

    We need clean hearts to do clean deeds.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheHaqq
    replied
    Originally posted by almuwahhid23 View Post
    Nowadays many people who commit crimes or they commit shirk by believing in democracy will call themselves Muslim. But Allah tells us in the Qur'an that most of people believe not in Him even though they call themselves Muslim.

    And most of them believe not in Allah except while they associate others with Him. 12:106

    And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying. 6:116

    Allah talks about hypocrites in the Qur'an

    And there are some who say, “We believe in Allah and the Last Day,” yet they are not believers.
    They seek to deceive Allah and the believers, yet they only deceive themselves, but they fail to perceive it. 2:8-9
    I like how you use a verse that was revealed for the mushrikeen against the muslims who say the shahadah.

    Your explanation of the verse is completely wrong, read the tafseer.

    Leave a comment:


  • almuwahhid23
    replied
    Originally posted by sepihof
    I think everyone should respect the convictions and beliefs of others. Everyone is free to believe in what they want. The most important is the purity of hearts and the intentions of human beings. It is also necessary to avoid linking an incident to a religion: If a Muslim commits a crime it does not mean that all Muslims are like that. And it's the same for all other religions.
    SHAREit MX Player
    Nowadays many people who commit crimes or they commit shirk by believing in democracy will call themselves Muslim. But Allah tells us in the Qur'an that most of people believe not in Him even though they call themselves Muslim.

    And most of them believe not in Allah except while they associate others with Him. 12:106

    And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying. 6:116

    Allah talks about hypocrites in the Qur'an

    And there are some who say, “We believe in Allah and the Last Day,” yet they are not believers.
    They seek to deceive Allah and the believers, yet they only deceive themselves, but they fail to perceive it. 2:8-9

    Leave a comment:

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