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  • #31
    Originally posted by Hamza1416 View Post

    go read and study what islam say about prostrating to others than allah
    This reminds me of a Hadith and Prophecy of RasulAllah about a man who will come in the future:

    Hudhaifa bin al-Yaman Radiyallahu An said that the Prophet Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam said:


    Verily, I fear about a man from you who will read the Qur'an so much that his face will become enlightened and he will come to personify Islam. This will continue until Allah desires. Then these things will be taken away from him when he will disregard them by putting them all behind his back and will attack his neighbor with the sword accusing him of Shirk. The Prophet peace be upon him was asked, "which of the two will be deserving of such an accusation? - The attacker or the attacked?" The Prophet replied, "the attacker (the one accusing the other of Shirk)"

    - Tarikh ul Kabir 4/301, Sahih ibn Hibban, (w/ Tahqiq Nasir Albani), 1/200, Hadith 81. (al-Albani said: 'this hadith is hasan'), Tafsir Ibn Kathir 2/266. (Ibn Kathir Rahimullah Alay rated the hadith "jayyid" i.e. "good").

    Text from Sahih Ibn Hibban.
    And if Allah wills we understand why it is the attacker who is deserving of that accusation.
    Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 25-10-20, 07:43 PM.
    Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
    "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
    Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

    Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
    1/116

    Comment


    • #32
      It is Haram to intend prostration to other than Allah.

      It is Shirk if Ibadah is intended.
      Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 25-10-20, 08:17 PM. Reason: *intend prostration - doesn't matter if someone accidentally walks past you, though that should be avoided according to the fiqh position I adhere to.
      Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
      "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
      Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

      Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
      1/116

      Comment


      • #33
        The angels prostration to Adam was out of respect not worship. A direct command of Allah is obeyed and cannot possibly be to do something "haram" as his commands define halal and haram.

        We don't comment on past Shariah, we have no real idea what they taught aside from Tawhid, the coming of RasulAllah etc.


        Perhaps this is why Muslim rulers tolerated some unsavoury practices of the Zoroastrians.

        Somehow I doubt a Prophet came and taught them that what they did under us was permitted, but Allahu Alam.
        Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
        "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
        Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

        Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
        1/116

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

          One day Insha'Allah you will be woken from what you suffer from. Until that day when Allah so wills, none of us can help you.
          ?

          Comment


          • #35
            Back to the OP
            I really respect your obvious desire in this thread to ensure that people only prostrate before God. I am assuming that you are seeing prostration as an act of worship and submission. I am whole heartedly in agreement that there is no other being who we should call Master and Lord.

            As we submit to this great and worthy God, I feel I need to ask myself how does that submission show in my daily life? What do I do, other than not prostrating to another being, that shows that in every area of my life - thoughts, words and actions - I am totaly submitted to God?

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Friend of God View Post
              Reading the posts under this title I am struck by how negative many of them are about what Christians believe and practice.
              When I look at Islam, as a Christian, I respect the emphasis put on prayer, the reverence Muslims show to their sacred book the Qur'an, and their desire to honour God/Allah in all they say and believe about him.
              Is there anything that you respect about Christianity?
              This is really nice from you.
              I am an ex Christian, however I never found any happiness in worshipping prophet Jesus alayhi sallam.
              The bible has been corrupted, if you research you Will realise the truth. May Allah guide you to Islam.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Friend of God View Post
                Reading the posts under this title I am struck by how negative many of them are about what Christians believe and practice.
                When I look at Islam, as a Christian, I respect the emphasis put on prayer, the reverence Muslims show to their sacred book the Qur'an, and their desire to honour God/Allah in all they say and believe about him.
                Is there anything that you respect about Christianity?
                And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."

                (Sahih International's Interpretation of Al-Qur'an, Surah al-Ankabut, Verse 46)

                The Christians according to Islam

                What I love about the Christians is that there are many amongst them who devote themselves to Allah, and love him. They are not people of arrogance, rather they are people of soft hearts.

                You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, "We are Christians." That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant.

                (Sahih International's Interpretation of Al-Qur'an, Surah al-Ma'idah, Verse 82)
                And they invented Monasticism and this was not legislated by Allah for them. But Allah will reward those who observed it properly and kept their vows, worshipping him alone:

                Then We sent following their footsteps [i.e., traditions] Our messengers and followed [them] with Jesus, the son of Mary, and gave him the Gospel. And We placed in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy and monasticism, which they innovated; We did not prescribe it for them except [that they did so] seeking the approval of Allah. But they did not observe it with due observance. So We gave the ones who believed among them their reward, but many of them are defiantly disobedient.

                (Sahih International's Interpretation of Al-Qur'an, Surah al-Hadid, Verse 27)
                Perhaps Monasticism was not legislated so that we were not to become so reclusive in our worship that we forget to show love and service to our parents and children.

                We reflect on the story of the Christian monk Jurayj:

                Abu Hurayra reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Three supplications are answered without a doubt: the supplication of someone who is oppressed, the supplication of someone on a journey, and the supplication of parents for their children."

                Abu Hurayra reported that he heard the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, say, "No human child has ever spoken in the cradle except for 'Isa ibn Maryam, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and the companion of Jurayj." Abu Hurayra asked, "Prophet of Allah, who was the companion of Jurayj?" The Prophet replied, "Jurayj was a monk who lived in a hermitage. There was a cowherd who used to come to the foot of his hermitage and a woman from the village used to come to the cowherd.

                "One day his mother came while he was praying and called out, 'Jurayj!' He asked himself, 'My mother or my prayer?' He concluded that he should prefer the prayer. She shouted to him a second time and he again asked himself, 'My mother or my prayer?' He thought that he should prefer the prayer. She shouted a third time and yet again he asked himself, 'My mother or my prayer?' He again concluded that he should prefer the prayer. When he did not answer her, she said, 'Jurayj, may Allah not let you die until you have looked at the faces of the beautiful women.' Then she left.

                "Then the village woman was brought before the king after she had given birth to a child. He asked, 'Whose is it?' 'Jurayj's,' she replied. He asked, 'The man in the hermitage?' 'Yes,' she answered. He ordered, 'Destroy his hermitage and bring him to me.' They hacked at his hermitage with axes until it collapsed. They bound his hand to his neck with a rope and took him along to the king. When he passed by the beautiful women, he saw them and smiled. They were looking at him along with the people.

                "The king asked, 'Do you know what this woman claims?' 'What does she claim?' he asked. He replied, 'She claims that you are the father of her child.' He asked her, 'Where is the child?' They replied, 'It is in her room.' He went to the child and said, 'Who is your father?' 'The cowherd,' he replied. The king said, 'Shall we build your hermitage out of gold?' 'No,' he replied. He asked, 'Of silver?' 'No,' he replied. The king asked, 'What shall we build it with?' He said, 'Put it back the way you found it.' Then the king asked, 'What made you smile.' 'Something I recognised,' he replied, 'The supplication of my mother overtook me.' Then he told him about it."

                - Adab Al-Mufrad, Hadith 33
                Look how Allah answers the prayer of the parent.

                However, those Christians we respect for they drew close to him by the obligatory and then the voluntary:

                Narrated Abu Huraira:

                Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said, "Allah said, 'I will declare war against him who shows hostility to a pious worshipper of Mine. And the most beloved things with which My slave comes nearer to Me, is what I have enjoined upon him; and My slave keeps on coming closer to Me through performing Nawafil (praying or doing extra deeds besides what is obligatory) till I love him, so I become his sense of hearing with which he hears, and his sense of sight with which he sees, and his hand with which he grips, and his leg with which he walks; and if he asks Me, I will give him, and if he asks My protection (Refuge), I will protect him; (i.e. give him My Refuge) and I do not hesitate to do anything as I hesitate to take the soul of the believer, for he hates death, and I hate to disappoint him."

                - Sahih al-Bukhari 6502
                Allah answers the prayer my christian friend of any who call upon him alone, he forgives any he wishes, and exalted is he, and most excellent is his will and decree:

                He forgives even the murderer, in this world and the next.

                Narrated Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:

                The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Amongst the men of Bani Israel there was a man who had murdered ninety-nine persons. Then he set out asking (whether his repentance could be accepted or not). He came upon a monk and asked him if his repentance could be accepted. The monk replied in the negative and so the man killed him. He kept on asking till a man advised to go to such and such village. (So he left for it) but death overtook him on the way. While dying, he turned his chest towards that village (where he had hoped his repentance would be accepted), and so the angels of mercy and the angels of punishment quarrelled amongst themselves regarding him. Allah ordered the village (towards which he was going) to come closer to him, and ordered the village (whence he had come), to go far away, and then He ordered the angels to measure the distances between his body and the two villages. So he was found to be one span closer to the village (he was going to). So he was forgiven."

                - Sahih al-Bukhari 3470
                Now witness Allah answering the dua of those who call on him from the Christians:

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMQfrzFxdw

                Was this not a father praying for his son? And who did the father call upon?

                He called upon the only one who can save him, the one even an atheist calls to in times of distress.

                And exalted is the will and decree of Allah, the Most High.

                There is no god but Allah, He is The Living, The Eternal (al-Hayyul Qayyum). Know that Isa Alayhis Salam, i.e. Jesus Peace be upon him, is Allah's creation, word, spirit, slave, prophet and messenger. The Pharisees rejected him as the Christians reject Muhammad Salallahu Alayhi Was-Salam, even if they read of them both in their scripture, and Muhammad Salallahu Alayhi Was-Salam is the last Prophet.

                If you believe in God then ask him to guide you and show you whatever is the truth. And surely Allah is al-Haqq (the Truth).

                We Muslims pray to Allah to show us the reality of all things. May Allah guide us and you and make all of us people of action rather than just people of words.
                Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 05-11-20, 04:38 PM.
                Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
                "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
                Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

                Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
                1/116

                Comment


                • #38
                  Full prayer uttered by the Christian Pastor in Church above:

                  "If you were at worship on Sunday, you know that sister Pauline read a letter on behalf of brother Anthony Haynes. We are praying for his mother, sister Patricia Davis who is here on tonight, amen? And, what I want to do, I want us to stand and pray as a church family for sister Davis, amen?

                  Amen. Because we just learnt that God is able to do anything but fail, amen?

                  Then God, we come with a special prayer request. We've been fasting and praying, believing for brother Haynes.

                  God, we pray now for sister Davis, God, and the remainder of their family. His father and those others who are affiliated. God, we know that nobody can do anything like you.

                  So God, we pray now, by your divine will, if it's your will, that you deliver like only you can. And God, we know that you're able if you only would, God. God, we pray for your mercy like only you can.

                  We know that you are able, Lord God. And we can get a miracle, O God.

                  God, we pray now that you touch the hand of every judge, or anybody else who has anything to do with the case because, God, we know that you are a lawyer who's never lost a case.

                  And so, God, we're coming in faith, nothing wavering, knowing that you are able to work miracles! Yeah. God, we need your peace. We need your peace, God. We need your peace."
                  Exalted is Allah, He is capable of all things. What is the above but Tawhid uttered from the Fitrah in a moment of distress?

                  La Quwwata Illa Billah - There is now power except with Allah.

                  The above prayer reminds me of an ayah of the Qur'an:

                  [They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right – only because they say, "Our Lord is Allah." And were it not that Allah checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of Allah is much mentioned [i.e., praised]. And Allah will surely support those who support Him [i.e., His cause]. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might.

                  (Sahih International's Interpretation of al-Quran, Surah al-Hajj, Verse 40)
                  Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
                  "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
                  Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

                  Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
                  1/116

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Muhammad Hasan Thank you for your comments about Christians that you made based on the Qur'an. I appreciate your possitive perspective.

                    The story you give of answered prayer is helpful. - Yes God answers prayer. When we call to him he delights to work.

                    From your last quote al-Quran, Surah al-Hajj, Verse 40 - it would seem that according to the Qur'an Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

                    O Great God, as we mention your name, help us to know you better and walk with you closer.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I hope that the Christians return to the path of the disciples:


                      They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.

                      (Sahih International's Interpretation of Al-Quran, Surah Ma'idah, Verse 72)
                      O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.

                      (Sahih International's Interpretation of Al-Quran, Surah an-Nisa, Verse 171)

                      Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
                      "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
                      Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

                      Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
                      1/116

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by almuwahhid23 View Post
                        This is really nice from you.
                        I am an ex Christian, however I never found any happiness in worshipping prophet Jesus alayhi sallam.
                        The bible has been corrupted, if you research you Will realise the truth. May Allah guide you to Islam.
                        Thank you for your suggestion - I have done the research (which I assume you have too) and have found ample evidence to confirm that the original language texts we have today have not been corrupted and any discrepancies are merely copyist errors and bear no relation to maters of faith or doctrine.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post
                          I hope that the Christians return to the path of the disciples:
                          Yes The path of the first followers of Jesus the Messiah is described in the book of Acts in the New Testament. I seek to follow this path of life.

                          Chapter 2: 42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

                          Chapter 4: 32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

                          Chapter 5: 42 Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Friend of God View Post

                            Thank you for your suggestion - I have done the research (which I assume you have too) and have found ample evidence to confirm that the original language texts we have today have not been corrupted and any discrepancies are merely copyist errors and bear no relation to maters of faith or doctrine.
                            Jesus aleyhi sallam was himself a Muslim.

                            Jesus prayed Like muslims

                            ​​he fell with his face to the ground and prayed (Matthew 26:39)

                            According to bible Jesus said God is greater than himself

                            ​​​​​
                            My Father is greater than I’ (John 14:28)

                            And they say: "The Most Beneficent (Allah) has begotten a son (or offspring or children) [as the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah, and the Christians say that He has begotten a son ['Iesa (Christ)], and the pagan Arabs say that He has begotten daughters (angels, etc.)]." 19:88 qur'an

                            According to bible Jesus is both god and the son of god.
                            ​​Why would the almighty god choose a son and than let him die for our sins.
                            That makes no sense. You should research again.
                            Last edited by almuwahhid23; 09-11-20, 01:23 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              okay almuwahhid23 you asked one question about the corruption of the text of the scriptures but now you are commenting about the understanding and interpretaion of those uncourrupted texts.

                              This is a different issue. If you are using the term 'Muslim' in its original Arabic sence to mean 'one who submits (to God)', then yes you are right: while on earth Jesus the Messiah submited to his Father as God. BTW Praying with your face to the ground doesn't make a person a Muslim - I do it every day and I would not call myself a Muslim (other than I seek to serve and submit to God)

                              Your understanding of the Bible is that 'the Almighty God chose a son'. I would like to suggest that this is not what the Bible teaches. To choose someone or something means that at some point you did not posses it. However the BIble is very clear that Jesus the Messiah has always been God's Son. It is an eternal relationship along with the Holy Spirit within the Oneness of God.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Friend of God View Post
                                okay almuwahhid23 you asked one question about the corruption of the text of the scriptures but now you are commenting about the understanding and interpretaion of those uncourrupted texts.

                                This is a different issue. If you are using the term 'Muslim' in its original Arabic sence to mean 'one who submits (to God)', then yes you are right: while on earth Jesus the Messiah submited to his Father as God. BTW Praying with your face to the ground doesn't make a person a Muslim - I do it every day and I would not call myself a Muslim (other than I seek to serve and submit to God)

                                Your understanding of the Bible is that 'the Almighty God chose a son'. I would like to suggest that this is not what the Bible teaches. To choose someone or something means that at some point you did not posses it. However the BIble is very clear that Jesus the Messiah has always been God's Son. It is an eternal relationship along with the Holy Spirit within the Oneness of God.
                                Muslims believe in all the scriptures of God, however we believe the Qur'an is last and final message of God. We believe there is some truth in the Bible, but most of it has been corrupted.
                                The Basic message of Islam is that there is only one God with no partners in His dominion, He sent prophets to invite People to worship Him alone.

                                [Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet. 19:30 Qur'an

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