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  • #31
    The Hashwiyyah Sect Vs The Majority Group

    If you believe the doctrines of the Hashwiyyah - that Allah is a 3 (or n)-dimensional entity who moves place to place (I said believe, not say), then you are on the firqah of the Hashwiyyah, regardless of what terminology you use or claim to use. No matter how much you claim, "I am a Salafi-Athari" etc. that wouldn't change anything, you would still be upon their firqah and so you as a minority heretical sect are claiming that the opinion of the majority - whose books you use and who have transmitted everything you read today - is not only wrong but heretical.

    Your claims that the Ash'aris are promoting doctrines against the Qur'an are no more accurate then Shia claims then. I have seen fanatical Shia who use the same level of language and harshness, laughably claiming orthodoxy.

    If you hold such beliefs - and Allah knows what is in your heart - abandon such doctrines and it will be better for you. If you do so, then you contradict the explicit verses of the Qur'an (int. - that there is nothing like him) and the explicit hadith (that there is nothing below him) and your doctrines then are biddah.

    As for me, I hold to the doctrines of the majority group throughout history, who you rely on for any information from the past anyway. I do not leave the Jama'ah for any strange sect as you may do. My views on the Qur'an are shared even by Imam al-Bukhari, and my Aqeedah is sound according to the Atharis (although they disagree only in minor issues).

    The Hashwiyyah sect that you may belong to was a small sect and has barely had any prominent scholars throughout history - Muqatil Bin Suleiman, Kahmas, Ahmad al-Hajimi, Nasr, Abdul Muhammad bin Karram, Uthman Bin Sa'id*, Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibnul Qayyim, Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab and your "Salafi" Khalafi scholars. These are people of desires. As for their scholars of today - they are those who were at the feet of the people. We do not follow such Bedouins in Iman.

    As for Ahlus Sunnah (who the above are not from), our scholars form the bulk of those mentioned today, whereas only two of the Hashwiyyah scholars are quoted in any capacity today - Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibnul Qayyim - and only in matters of Hadith and perhaps some issues of Hanbali fiqh. (As Az-Zamakhshari is quoted in Tafsir al-Qur'an and he and the likes of him are quoted in some issues of Hanafi fiqh).

    Following the Unclear Verses, seeking an Interpretation in line with their Desires

    We do not make the religion into a thing of play, blindly following the ignorant. I follow that which is clear in the Quran and Hadith and I accept and belief in all of the Qur'an, affirming as Allah has affirmed in the Qur'an without interpreting, whereas the Hashwiyyah follow and base their aqeedah on that which is unclear, following their desires to worship the creation. Our methodology comes from the verse of the Qur'an itself:

    It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

    (Sahih International's Interpretation of Al-Quran, Surah Imran Verse 7)
    And the Sahabah confirm this from RasulAllah Alayhis Salam:

    'A'isha reported that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) recited (these verses of the Qur'an):

    " He it is Who revealed to thee (Muhammad) the Book (the Qur'an) wherein there are clear revelations-these are the substance of the Book and others are allegorical (verses). And as for those who have a yearning for error they go after the allegorical verses seeking (to cause) dissension, by seeking to explain them. And none knows their implications but Allah, and those who are sound in knowledge say: We affirm our faith in everything which is from our Lord. It is only the persons of understanding who really heed" (iii. 6). 'A'isha (further) reported that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said (in connection with these verses): When you see such people, avoid them, for it is they whom Allah has pointed out (in the mentioned verses).

    - Sahih Muslim 2665; Chapter, "The Prohibition Of, And Warning Against Seeking Out Verses Of The Quran Whose Meanings Are Not Decisive; The Prohibition Of Arguing About The Qur'an" also Sunan Abi Dawud 4598
    If anyone believes in a 3D "God", then let them know that such a "God" can create nothing, not even a fly. If such a "God" was created then it isn't God because it is powerless and useless and is subject to Allah's command and will. If any creation coincide with its motions, then it is Allah who is creating that 3D thing, its motions and that which is being created. That is why we understand Ad-Dajjal can never be Allah, no matter what he claims or it seems he does.

    We worship the one that the believers will see on the day of judgement and they the believers will not follow the created and dimensioned creature, they will instead prostrate before Allah who created them, refusing to prostrate before the image.


    And perhaps they, al-Hashwiyyah, have still not realised that these words they use - attribute (sifat), essence (dhat) etc. are the words of the early mutakillimun! Never do the Prophet Alayhis Salam and Sahahabah expliticly mention these words. The Hashwiyyah take these words from us and then distort their meaning from what we intended as a means of following the Sahabah and maintaining the divine transcendence. I wonder if they even realise that these words are found in the books of the greeks...

    Say, "He is Allah, [who is] One, Allah, the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent."

    (Sahih International's Interpretation of Al-Quran, Surah Ikhlas)
    So AmantuBillahi, if as I understand it, you follow the Hashwiyyah, then to you is your way, to us is ours. We follow the scholar of Yemen, the Yemenis being those who RasulAllah praised regarding faith, who heard he hadith of creation regarding which RasulAllah stated nothing was with Allah, to which he has also said their was no void above him nor any void below him, to which he has said that still there is nothing above him and there is nothing below him. You can reject such Hadith or give a hypocritical tawil of them, but that does not change the fact that they exist. Surah Ikhlas and Surah Shura Verse 11, is then evidence against you. The Majority throughout history who you rely upon disagree with you then. We stay safe - we keep to the historical Jama'ah throughout history that transmitted the religion down to us. We leave the sects of today.

    I apologise sincerely for my harshness and rude language towards you for whilst I hate the beliefs of the disgusting, heretical beliefs of the Hashwiyyah, who contradict the Qur'an and Sunnah, I have no hatred in my heart for you my brother in Islam who may be misguided by their doctrines which they indoctrinate the Awwam with. I make Dua to Allah that we can both share company in Jannah.

    I hope you will accept my apology and will make dua that Allah forgives my rudeness towards you.


    BismillahIr-RahmanIr-Raheem,




    *Or whoever authored his books which contain anthropomorphisms

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post

      I really don't want to derail the thread but I think this is worth mentioning. Firstly, I don't think it's appropriate to use Paul as an example to describe anything concerning Islam. Allah placed the religion in the most conducive enviorment to gurantee the preservation of both the Scripture and its classical interpretation. We don't have any dubious figures like Paul who we're forced to turn a blind eye to in order to justify the authenticity of our tradition. However, if there ever was a Pauline element within the religion of Islam, then from our perspective it would have to be the Mutakalimoon. I understand it's difficult to put yourself in the shoes of someone you sincerely disagree with, but from our point of view the Ash'aris & Maturidis are guilty of misinterpretting the intended theology of the religion and giving Da'wah based on deception.

      Secondly, there is a disagreement regarding the Ayat Mutashabihat and the correct reading of that verse. Either way, from our perspective this Ayah is a scapegoat verse for the Mutakalimoon when they cannot justify their beliefs. Although I do agree that the Christians and Jews (esspecially the Christians) are guilty of emphasizing the ambiguous verses in light of the foundational ones, I don't think I would describe the deviations of Paul with this Ayah. Paul was either an intentional liar or a delusional individual who was innovating theology in order to justify his belief in the crucified Messiah.

      Also, this whole 3-dimensional God thing is really blown out of proportion. That is not what anyone teaches or describes their belief in Allah and such language would not even be entertained outside of advanced settings where they delve deep regarding the Shubuhat of those who distorted and negated the Attributes. On the other hand, there are clear-cut quotes from major Ash'ari scholars admitting that their disagreement with the Mu'tazila on Khalq al-Quran is only semantical. We also have plenty of testimonies from reliable Hanbali scholars conforming that the Ash'aris believe the Arabic Quran in our precense is created. Again, I don't mean to derail this into a debate on each one of these points, but the heresy of the Ash'aris concerning the nature of the Quran should be enough for anyone to conclude that they are not 100% orthodox.
      Excellent post, ma sha Allah.

      Once more, I have not familiarised myself with certain readings to discuss aqeeda in some terms.

      The thing is, why cannot people say - Allah is the Master and the Creator of the our earth, its universe and seven heavens and ALL of creation.

      His mighty throne is the most glorious of His CREATION.

      After that, we are all bond-servants, subjects of Allah (just like the Throne/Arsh), from the smallest atom to our atmosphere, to living organisms - including the 'mighty' of humans who reject Allah or do oppression on earth.

      Of all else, people are doing sujood incorrectly. Your heart should be bowing to Allah too.

      Surah Baqarah (Chapter 2 of the Holy Quran), verse 255 - Ayatul Kursi:

      اللَّهُ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ الْحَيُّ الْقَيُّومُ لاَ تَأْخُذُهُ سِنَةٌ وَلاَ نَوْمٌ لَهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الأَرْضِ مَنْ ذَا الَّذِي يَشْفَعُ عِنْدَهُ إِلاَّ بِإِذْنِهِ يَعْلَمُ مَا بَيْنَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَمَا خَلْفَهُمْ وَلاَ يُحِيطُونَ بِشَيْءٍ مِنْ عِلْمِهِ إِلاَّ بِمَا شَاءَ وَسِعَ كُرْسِيُّهُ السَّمَاواتِ وَالأَرْضَ وَلاَ يَئُودُهُ حِفْظُهُمَا وَهُوَ الْعَلِيُّ الْعَظِيمُ

      Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal.

      No slumber can seize Him nor Sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth.

      Who is there can intercede in His presence except as he permitteth?

      He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures As) Before or After or Behind them.

      Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth.

      His throne doth extend over the heavens and on earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them, For He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).



      My take - as a Muslim, is that Allah of course is beyond His creation - which includes the Glorious Throne. He is the Self-Sufficient Master.

      Its clear that in many ways if we looked at Ayatul Kursi:

      - it says "His throne doth extend over the heavens and on earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them, For He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory)."

      It is this verse that we should recourse to for discussing aqeeda/creed.

      Of course He is above and Supreme above the Throne and His creation - as its says in Ayatul Kursi "For He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory)."

      After that we should just accept that we all his subjects.

      As we are the subjects of the Most Merciful Allah and cannot even -

      - lets say we cannot even will and act without Allah,

      We can just understand that Allah is Master of His creation and encompasses them with His power endlessly.

      There is no need to debate so much if you think about this issue from this angle


      :)
      Abu Malik at-Ash'ari reported:

      The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: Cleanliness is half of faith

      and al-Hamdu Lillah (all praise and gratitude is for Allah alone) fills the scale, and Subhan Allah (Glory be to Allah)

      and al-Hamdu Lillah fill up what is between the heavens and the earth, and prayer is a light,

      and charity is proof (of one's faith)

      and endurance is a brightness and the Holy Qur'an is a proof on your behalf or against you.

      All men go out early in the morning and sell themselves, thereby setting themselves free or destroying themselves.



      حَدَّثَنَا إِسْحَاقُ بْنُ مَنْصُورٍ، حَدَّثَنَا حَبَّانُ بْنُ هِلاَلٍ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبَانٌ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى، أَنَّ زَيْدًا، حَدَّثَهُ أَنَّ أَبَا سَلاَّمٍ حَدَّثَهُ عَنْ أَبِي مَالِكٍ الأَشْعَرِيِّ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ الطُّهُورُ شَطْرُ الإِيمَانِ وَالْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ تَمْلأُ الْمِيزَانَ ‏.‏ وَسُبْحَانَ اللَّهِ وَالْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ تَمْلآنِ - أَوْ تَمْلأُ - مَا بَيْنَ السَّمَوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ وَالصَّلاَةُ نُورٌ وَالصَّدَقَةُ بُرْهَانٌ وَالصَّبْرُ ضِيَاءٌ وَالْقُرْآنُ حُجَّةٌ لَكَ أَوْ عَلَيْكَ كُلُّ النَّاسِ يَغْدُو فَبَائِعٌ نَفْسَهُ فَمُعْتِقُهَا أَوْ مُوبِقُهَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏

      Reference : Sahih Muslim 223
      In-book reference : Book 2, Hadith 1
      USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 2, Hadith 432
      (deprecated numbering scheme)

      أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

      Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


      Please take a look at my blog : http://thinkingmuslima.blogspot.co.uk/

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post

        Excellent post, ma sha Allah.

        Once more, I have not familiarised myself with certain readings to discuss aqeeda in some terms.

        The thing is, why cannot people say - Allah is the Master and the Creator of the our earth, its universe and seven heavens and ALL of creation.

        His mighty throne is the most glorious of His CREATION.

        After that, we are all bond-servants, subjects of Allah (just like the Throne/Arsh), from the smallest atom to our atmosphere, to living organisms - including the 'mighty' of humans who reject Allah or do oppression on earth.

        Of all else, people are doing sujood incorrectly. Your heart should be bowing to Allah too.

        Surah Baqarah (Chapter 2 of the Holy Quran), verse 255 - Ayatul Kursi:

        اللَّهُ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ الْحَيُّ الْقَيُّومُ لاَ تَأْخُذُهُ سِنَةٌ وَلاَ نَوْمٌ لَهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الأَرْضِ مَنْ ذَا الَّذِي يَشْفَعُ عِنْدَهُ إِلاَّ بِإِذْنِهِ يَعْلَمُ مَا بَيْنَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَمَا خَلْفَهُمْ وَلاَ يُحِيطُونَ بِشَيْءٍ مِنْ عِلْمِهِ إِلاَّ بِمَا شَاءَ وَسِعَ كُرْسِيُّهُ السَّمَاواتِ وَالأَرْضَ وَلاَ يَئُودُهُ حِفْظُهُمَا وَهُوَ الْعَلِيُّ الْعَظِيمُ


        Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal.

        No slumber can seize Him nor Sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth.

        Who is there can intercede in His presence except as he permitteth?

        He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures As) Before or After or Behind them.

        Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth.

        His throne doth extend over the heavens and on earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them, For He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).




        My take - as a Muslim, is that Allah of course is beyond His creation - which includes the Glorious Throne. He is the Self-Sufficient Master.

        Its clear that in many ways if we looked at Ayatul Kursi:

        - it says "His throne doth extend over the heavens and on earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them, For He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory)."

        It is this verse that we should recourse to for discussing aqeeda/creed.

        Of course He is above and Supreme above the Throne and His creation - as its says in Ayatul Kursi "For He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory)."

        After that we should just accept that we all his subjects.

        As we are the subjects of the Most Merciful Allah and cannot even -

        - lets say we cannot even will and act without Allah,

        We can just understand that Allah is Master of His creation and encompasses them with His power endlessly.

        There is no need to debate so much if you think about this issue from this angle


        :)
        Wa-Alaykum-Salam,

        Ahlus Sunnah agree that Allah is above the throne, meaning that he completely transcends the creation and is (ba'in) seperate from it as you have described. It was the saying of the Salaf to say these words directly and one also finds these words in the statements of early creed, that some now reject.

        The Throne (al-‘arsh) and the Footstool (al-kursī) are true. He is independent of the Throne and whatever is beneath it. He encompasses all things and He is above it, and what He has created is incapable of encompassing Him.

        - Aqidah Tahawiyyah
        I have read that Imam al-Maturidi states that when they stated this, they also implied transcendence from place (and so general transcendence from the creation).

        The Debate between al-Hashwiyyah and the Asharis/Maturidis/Atharis

        However in certain circles, they do not understand such verses of the Qur'an in the sense you have expounded sister. They wish to believe that Allah is like his creation and is above the throne in a physical sense, and that he physically can and does descend from the throne into the creation... I.e. that he is in a place in his creation, and can descend into it.

        We attempt to quote the following to reason with them:

        Abu Hurairah (ra) said:

        “The Messenger of Allah () used to order that when one of us went to sleep, he should say: ‘O Allah, Lord of the heavens and Lord of the earths, and our Lord, and the Lord of everything, splitter of the seed-grain and date-stone, and Revealer of the Tawrah and the Injil and the Qur’an. I seek refuge in You from the evil of every evil that You are holding by the forelock. You are the First, there is nothing before You, You are the Last, there is nothing after You, and Az-Zahir, there is nothing above you, and Al-Batin, there is nothing below You. Relieve me of my debt, and enrich me from poverty (Allāhumma rabbas-samāwati wa rabbal-arḍīna wa rabbanā, wa rabba kulli shai’in, fāliqal-ḥabbi wan-nawā, wa munzilat-Tawrāti wal-Injīli wal-Qur’ān. A`ūdhu bika sharri kulli dhi sharrin anta ākhidhun bināṣiyatihi, antal-Awwalu falaisa qablaka shai’un, wa antal-Ākhiru falaisa ba`daka shai’un, waẓ-Ẓāhiru falaisa fauqaka shai'unwal-Bātinu falaisa dūnaka shai’un, iqḍi `annid-daina wa aghninī minal-faqr).’”


        - Adab al-Mufrad of al-Bukhari Hadith 1212 and Sahih Muslim Hadith 2713a, Jami` at-Tirmidhi Hadith 3400 and 3481, Sunan Abi Dawud Hadith 5051 etc. Text/translation from at-Tirmidhi Hadith 3400 Darussalam. Imam at-Tirmidhi rates it Hasanun Sahih, and it is a hadith found in Sahih Muslim. Note that the Arabic is the same in all of these texts, with only slight difference in one of the Matn of Tirmidhi.
        But some simply ignore the explicit wording of such hadith, as they prefer to believe Allah is a body (jism) above the throne in the physical sense of any creation. I have even heard, that when they discuss Allah they sometimes slip and what they truly think of him is revealed - one such brother accidentally described Allah as being part of the creation - saying something along the lines of, "Allah and the rest of the creation..."

        In fact, Imam al-Bayhaqi Rahimullah Alay commenting on the hadith above says the following:

        Some of our scholars cited this as evidence of negating a place for Him… If there is nothing above or below Him, then He is not in a place.

        - Kitab al-Asma wal-Sifat Vol. 2, p. 287
        Let me clear up this matter of 'place', by quoting Imam Ibn Asakir Rahimullah Alay,

        The Najjariyya (and Jahmiyyah) held that the Creator is in every place without localization or direction. And the Hashwiyya and Mujassima held that Allah is localized on the Throne, and that Throne is a place for him, and that He is sitting on it. But al-Ash'ari followed a middle course between them and held that Allah was when no place was, and then He created the Throne and the [Kursiyy] without His needing a place, and He was just the same after creating place as He had been before He created it.

        ...The Mushabbiha and Hashwiyya said: Descent is the descent of His person (dhat) together with movement (haraka) and displacement (intiqal), and istiwa' is [His] sitting on the Throne and indwelling on top of it.

        - Tabyin Kadhib al-Muftari
        This is based off of hadith such as the following:

        Narrated Imran bin Husain:

        I went to the Prophet (ﷺ) and tied my she-camel at the gate. The people of Bani Tamim came to the Prophet (ﷺ) who said "O Bani Tamim! Accept the good tidings." They said twice, 'You have given us the good tidings, now give us something" Then some Yemenites came to him and he said, "Accept the good tidings, O people of Yemem, for Bani Tamim refused them." They said, "We accept it, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! We have come to ask you about this matter (i.e. the start of creations)." He said, "First of all, there was nothing but Allah, and (then He created His Throne). His throne was over the water, and He wrote everything in the Book (in the Heaven) and created the Heavens and the Earth." Then a man shouted, "O Ibn Husain! Your she-camel has gone away!" So, I went away and could not see the she-camel because of the mirage. By Allah, I wished I had left that she-camel (but not that gathering).

        - Sahih al-Bukhari 3191
        (note the group who accepts the Prophet Alayhis Salam explaining this and who rejects)

        Particular significance of the above hadith to the people of the final eras

        Imam al-Bukhari brings this hadith from a different chain, in the chapter of al-Maghaazi (conquests), note the chapter title:

        Narrated `Imran bin Husain:

        The people of Banu Tamim came to Allah's Messenger (), and he said, "Be glad (i.e. have good tidings). O Banu Tamim!" They said, "As you have given us good tidings then give us (some material things)." On that the features of Allah's Messenger () changed (i.e. he took it ill). Then some people from Yemen came, and the Prophet () said (to them) "Accept good tidings as Banu Tamim have not accepted them." They said, "We accept them, O Allah's Messenger ()!"

        - Sahih al-Bukhari 4386. Chapter: The arrival of Al-Ash’ariyun and the people of Yemen
        Imam Al-Bukhari, unlike Imam Muslim, writes his own chapter titles.

        One will note that two groups are mentioned in the above hadith. The two are Bani Tamim, a tribe from Najd and the eastern Arabian peninsula, and the Yemenites, in particular the Ash'ari tribe.

        What is the significance of this?

        Reflect on other Ahadith.

        Narrated Abu Huraira:

        I heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) saying, "Pride and arrogance are characteristics of the rural bedouins while calmness is found among the owners of sheep. Belief is Yemenite, and wisdom is also Yemenite i.e. the Yemenites are well-known for their true belief and wisdom)." Abu `Abdullah (Al-Bukhari) said, "Yemen was called so because it is situated to the right of the Ka`ba, and Sham was called so because it is situated to the left of the Ka`ba."

        - Sahih al-Bukhari 3499
        Abu Huraira reported:

        The Messenger of Allah (may peace and blessings be upon him) observed: There came to you the people from Yemen; they are tender of hearts and mild of feelings, the understanding is Yemenite, the sagacity is Yemenite.

        - Sahih Muslim 52 c
        Furthermore, in Tafsir, a Hadith found in Imam Hakim's al-Mustadrak - which is authentic according to the criteria of Imam Muslim - narrated also by Imam Ibn Abi Shaybah and with a Hasan (sound) chain by Imam al-Tabarani according to al-Haythami, states the following:

        Narrated 'Iyad:

        When Allah revealed this verse “O you who believe! Whoever among you turns back from his Religion, know that in his stead Allah will bring a people whom He loves and who love Him, humble toward believers, stern toward disbelievers, striving in the way of Allah, and fearing not the blame of any blamer. Such is the grace of Allah which He gives to whom He will. Allah is All-Embracing, All-Knowing.” (5:54) the Prophet pointed to Abu Musa al-Ash’ari (the Yemeni) and said: “They are that man’s People.”

        - Tafsir al-Jalalayn by Imam al-Suyuti/al-Mahili, Tafsir of Verse 5:54
        What is the significance of all of this?

        We know that there are hadith where the Prophet Alayhis Salatu Was-Salam prophecises some of the greatest scholars of this ummah - e.g. the scholar of Madinah in Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2680 - a hadith which Imam Tirmidhi himself rates 'hasan'. Most say that hadith refers to Imam Malik, founder of the Maliki school of fiqh, and author of al-Muwatta, an early book of hadith dedicated to agreed upon reports.

        Commenting on the above hadith relating to Yemen, Imam al-Subki states the following:

        “Our scholars have said that the Prophet did not speak to anyone of the foundations of the Religion (Usul al-Din) in such a way as he has spoken to the Ash`aris in this hadith.”

        - Tabaqat al-Shafi`iyya al-Kubra, 3/354
        Abu Musa al-Ash'ari Radiyallahu An, was the Sahabi who headed the Ash'ari tribe of the Yemenis referred to in many of these hadith.

        One of his descendents was Abu Hasan al-Ash'ari, founder of the Ash'ari tradition of Usul ad-Din. Throughout the history of this Ummah, many or most of the prominent Ulama have been Ash'aris e.g. Imam al-Bayhaqi, Imam Nawawi, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Shah Waliullah etc.

        What did the Ash'ari in particular do? They defended the Maddhab of the Sahabah, i.e. Sunni Islam, from the heretics of all different philosophies and deviations, including the Jahmiyyah (an early sect who thought Allah is everywhere) and the Hashwiyyah (the sect under discussion, who early on were known as al-Muqatiliyyah).

        Together with the other Imam's of Usul, such as Imam Ahlus Sunnah Ahmad bin Hanbal, who was persecuted for Sunni belief by the Mu'tazilite government, Imam at-Tahawi, whose creed even the heretics quote and Imam al-Maturidi, who was also a reknowned ascetic, Imam al-Ash'ari is one of those early figures who lived in the first 300 years who expounded orthodox Islamic beliefs according to the beliefs transmitted by the Sahabah.

        For those interested, I will quote a story regarding Imam Abu Hasan al-Ash'ari,

        Abu Hasan al Ashari (d. 324H) after whom the Ashari Aqeedah was named was a descendant of the companion Abu Musa al Ashari (d. 40 H), he began as a Mu’tazili growing up as the step-son and student of the famous Mu’tazili teacher Abu Ali al-Jubba’i. However, at the age of forty, he shocked everyone by severing himself from them and publicly renouncing their beliefs. He then set out to defend the beliefs the Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama’ah (Sunni Islam) held by its Great Jurists and Hadith scholars of the time.

        Imam al-Ash’ari says: During the first ten days of one Ramadan, I saw RasulAllah Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam. He said: “O ‘Ali, aid the madh’habs that are veritably reported by me (Those who follow my Sunnah), because only that is the Truth.” I woke up and was perplexed about this grave matter. I was immensely worried about this because I had numerous proofs opposing the ‘reported’ belief.

        Within the next ten days, I saw him again. “What did you do about that which I ordered you to do?” I said: “Ya RasulAllah, I tried to do it but I have many strong proofs

        [and arguments] against those beliefs which are reported from you. Therefore, I follow that which has stronger proofs concerning [the Attributes] of Allah ta’ala” He said: “Aid the madh’habs that are reported from me, because that is the truth ”I woke up and I was terribly saddened. I then forsook Kalam and began following the Hadith and reciting the Qur’an.

        In Basrah (Iraq) we have a custom that reciters (qurra’a) assemble together on the twenty seventh night of Ramadan and finish the entire Qur’an in that night. But I was feeling very sleepy and I couldn’t stay back any longer. So I went home and slept, feeling very sorry at the great loss of missing that night’s khatm (recitation).

        I saw RasulAllah Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam who said “What did you do about that which I told you?” I replied: “I have forsaken Kalam and taken a firm hold of the Book of Allah and your sunnah.” He said: “I did not tell you to forsake Kalam. I told you to aid the madh’hab that is reported from me, because that is the truth.”

        I said: “Ya RasulAllah, how can I shun those ideas which I have helped in strengthening myself and aided its cause for the past thirty years, on the basis of a dream?”
        He said: “If I did not know that Allah will aid you [in this], I would not have come here to explain all this. Do not make light of this dream in which I have come. Is that (dream) in which I saw Gibril, just another dream? I will not come again to you. Do well and Allah will aid you.”

        I woke up and said to myself: only falsehood remains after truth has been manifest. So I began to advocate Hadith about seeing Allah, intercession etc. And I have found proofs – by Allah – which I have never heard before, nor read in a book. This, I have realized to be the aid from Allah, the good news of which was given to me by RasulAllah Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam.

        - Tabyin Kadhib al-Muftari
        Thus Imam Abu Hasan al-Ash'ari used Kalam and reason to prove the beliefs of Ahlus Sunnah to be correct. Ever since then, two Usuli traditions (the Ash'ari/Maturidi) out of the three utilise Kalam and rational arguments to defend the doctrines of Ahlus Sunnah. This is also based off of the many verses of the Qur'an which call us to use reason.

        Now in our present era, a certain group of bedouin have invaded the Kaaba and have started building their tall arrogant buildings, when Amir ul-Mumineen Umar ibn al-Khattab Radiyallahu An commanded against this explicitly. These same people are those who print many of the Islamic works, especially in English, and they use their ability to print things to even distort translations sometimes (this can be seen clearly in the 'abridged' edition of Ibn Kathir's Tafsir). What are the tribes of these people, who indoctrinate individuals in the recently established 'University of Madinah'? They are the tribes of Najd. The Royals of Saudi Arabia most of whom who support these efforts are of the Banu Tamim tribe.

        Narrated Ibn `Umar:

        The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Sham! O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Yemen." The People said, "And also on our Najd." He said, "O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Sham (north)! O Allah! Bestow Your blessings on our Yemen." The people said, "O Allah's Apostle! And also on our Najd." I think the third time the Prophet (ﷺ) said, "There (in Najd) is the place of earthquakes and afflictions and from there comes out the side of the head of Satan."

        - Sahih al-Bukhari 7094, Kitab al-Fitan, Chapter: Al-Fitnah will appear from the east.
        Some of the ignorant replied that, "Najd refers to Iraq" in order to save their firqah (sect) from being the subject of prophecy. To these people we quote Hadith which clearly distinguish between the two:

        Abu Zubair heard Jabir b. 'Abdullah (Allah be pleased with them) as saying as he was asked about (the place for entering upon the) state of Ihram:

        I heard (and I think he carried it directly to the Messenger of Allah) him saying: For the people of Medina Dhu'l-Hulaifa is the place for entering upon the state of Ihram, and for (the people coming through the other way, i.e. Syria) it is Juhfa; for the people of Iraq it is Dhat al-'Irq; for the people of Najd it is Qarn (al-Manazil) and for the people of Yemen it is Yalamlam.

        - Sahih Muslim 1183 b
        Moreover, one can be absolutely sure that Najd includes the central arabian peninsula based off of the following Hadith:

        Narrated Khalid bin Al-Walid:

        That he went with Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) to the house of Maimuna, who was his and Ibn `Abbas' aunt. He found with her a roasted mastigure which her sister Hufaida bint Al-Harith had brought from Najd. Maimuna presented the mastigure before Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) who rarely started eating any (unfamiliar) food before it was described and named for him. (But that time) Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) stretched his hand towards the (meat of the) mastigure whereupon a lady from among those who were present, said, "You should inform Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) of what you have presented to him. O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! It is the meat of a mastigure." (On learning that) Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) withdrew his hand from the meat of the mastigure. Khalid bin Al-Walid said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Is this unlawful to eat?" Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "No, but it is not found in the land of my people, so I do not like it." Khalid said, "Then I pulled the mastigure (meat) towards me and ate it while Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was looking at me.

        - Sahih al-Bukhari 5391
        Now in which place and in whose culture is the eating of Mastigures especially popular?

        Perhaps you should ask the locals when insha'Allah you visit Riyadh...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU8ZqnSdSsA
        (Some Najdi Bedouins enjoying sed lizard.)

        In summary then these people of Najd now educate the 'scholars' of the Ummah, spreading their ignorance in multiple ways (one of which relates innovating Tajsim in Aqeedah, following one or two scholars in the past which the Jamhur were against and then telling the people that the majority of the Ulama of the past such as Imam an-Nawawi were deviants in this regard) and fulfil the prophecies and signs of the end times without realising it. The Awwam are blissfully unaware of this and so do not know that this is going on, and so are naturally drawn to these people, who are harsh and fanatical, naturally accusing the Jama'ah (majority group) throughout history of heresy when they themselves are the heretics.

        How do our Ulama respond? With a smile, calmness and yet firmness, that they are unable to imitate.

        I ask the reader to reflect on the following two Hadith:

        The Prophet Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam said,
        "By the One in whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, the hour will not begin until... Al-Wa'ooll perish and Al-Tahoot prevail." They said, "Messenger of Allah, what are al-Wa'oolll and al-Tahoot?" He said, "Al-Wa'ooll are the prominent, noble people and Al-Tahoot are those who were under the people's feet and no one knew about them."

        - Recorded in Al-Haakim in Al-Mustadrak ala Sahihayn and Tabarani in Al-Awsat; al-Albani - who weakens hadith in Sahihayn - classed it as Sahih.
        And who were under the people feet but the Bedouins of Najd, who the early Ahnaf discouraged from leading the Salah? (Compare this against different Mutun of Hadith Jibril, especially the versions in Musnad Ahmad).

        Hudhaifa bin al-Yaman Radiyallahu An said that the Prophet Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam said:

        Verily, I fear about a man from you who will read the Qur'an so much that his face will become enlightened and he will come to personify Islam. This will continue until Allah desires. Then these things will be taken away from him when he will disregard them by putting them all behind his back and will attack his neighbor with the sword accusing him of Shirk. The Prophet peace be upon him was asked, "which of the two will be deserving of such an accusation? - The attacker or the attacked?" The Prophet replied, "the attacker (the one accusing the other of Shirk)"

        - Tarikh ul Kabir by al-Bukhari, 4/301 and Sahih ibn Hibban Tahqiq Nasir Albani, 1/200, Hadith Number 81. al-Albani said: 'this hadith is hasan', c.ref Silsilat al-Ahadith al-sahihah - Albani Volume 007-A, Page No. 605, Hadith Number 3201
        Those with a fair knowledge of recent history understand who this hadith likely relates to.

        Allahu Alam.

        Amongst some of the tribes of Najd were people of the highest stature in Taqwa and kindness, the likes of the Sahabah we follow in fiqh such as Abdullah ibn Mas'ud Radiyallahu An, the likes of Ibn Kullab and ad-Darimi (author of the Sunan, not Uthman bin Sa'id). Such people were firm and at times harsh, but the difference between them and those we have today is that they were firm and harsh upon the truth, whereas the Beduoin of today are firm and harsh upon corruption.

        Returning to al-Hashwiyyah

        As Allah inhabits place according to them, it is physically possible for something to be either above Allah or above a part of him (as they affirm parts/limbs for him too.)

        Whoever does not guard himself from negating the attributes of Allah or likening Allah to something else has strayed and has not correctly understood the transcendence of Allah, for our Lord Almighty is described with the attributes of Oneness, qualified with the qualities of uniqueness. He does not have the characteristics of any creature.

        He is Exalted above any limits, ends, supports, limbs, or tools. He is not contained by six directions like the rest of created things.

        - Aqidah Tahawiyyah
        The one of sound iman who has submitted to him cannot comprehend such things for him.

        Summary

        In these issues of Aqeedah, we should follow the verses as that Sister has quoted them which tell us that Allah transcends his creation and is beyond it, and we should affirm and follow the many verses which tell us that Allah is completely unlike his creation. He transcends and is exalted over and above such things as place as they are his creation.

        He is the creator (al-Khaliq) and determiner (al-Muqtadir) of all things, lord and fashioner of every moment in time. In his hands are all things, and his creating of the creation did not decrease from it. He is our lord the Most High. Exalted is he above his creation, and exalted is he above being compared to his creation.

        As for those things that are unclear/similar, we do not follow these seeking an interpreation, rather we leave their interpretation to Allah and believe in the whole Qur'an. This is the methodology of the Ulama of the Salaf, and of the Ash'ari, Athari and Maturidi who form the Jama'ah. This is what Allah commands himself in the Qur'an. And excellent is his command.

        Insha'Allah we will see him on the day of judgement, as shall all believers, and even then we will never fully comprehend him. He is the Truth (al-Haqq), the necessary one (al-Wajib al-Wujud) who is so beautiful that some will stare at him for hundreds of years. Looking at him is a gift superior to Jannah itself, and Jannah is that which eternally becomes better.

        There is absolutely nothing like him, and he sees and hears all things.

        Exalted is the one who creates and causes our actions. As the sister has said, we do not will unless Allah wills. That is how we understand our Rabb.

        Our minds are limited and created, they cannot comprehend Allah except through his Sifat (attributes). He is not in a place, he is not subject to the colors or dimensions. He completely transcends such qualities, which are the qualities of his creation. His Hands are not limbs, i.e. they are not physicallities protruding from him. Exalted is he above that and exalted is he above being dimensioned. Rather he is the one that creates and determines all such things.

        The one who takes the Shahadah is a Sunni, and the one who doesn't understand these issues is a Sunni. It is only those who afterward depart from the Jama'ah who are not from it.

        I will leave you with a Surah from the Qur'an, a hadith interpreting it and a saying of the Sahabah, related in the creed (Aqidah) of Imam Ahmad, that all Muslims should teach to their children, when helping them understand Allah.

        Say, "He is Allah, [who is] One, Allah, the Eternal Refuge. He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to Him any equivalent."

        (Sahih International's Interpretation of Al-Quran, Surah Ikhlas)
        Abu Al-Aliyah narrated from Ubayy bin Ka’b:

        “The idolaters were saying to the Messenger of Allah: ‘Name the lineage of your Lord for us.’ So Allah, Most High, revealed: Say: “He is Allah, the One. Allah As-Samad.” So As-Samad is ‘the One Who does not beget, nor is He begotten,’ because there is nothing born except it will die, and there is nothing that dies except that it will be inherited from, and verily. Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, does not die, nor is He inherited from. ‘And there is none comparable to Him.’ He said: ‘There is nothing similar to Him, nor equal to Him, nor is there anything like Him.’”

        - Jami'at Tirmidhi Vol. 5, Book 44, Hadith 3364
        Imam Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah Said,
        "Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that"

        - Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr Al-Khallal), 1/116
        Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 16-09-20, 06:45 PM. Reason: Forgot to put, "Radiyallahu An" after name of Ibn Mas'ud Radiyallahu An. "the al-Muwatta" corrected.

        Comment


        • #34
          Muhammad Hasan

          Salaam brother I deffo think Najd equates the Saudi Monarchy,

          They started as a tribe in Najd, its referenced clearly in wikipedia - plus also their own government website.

          They promote an ill and deviant agenda.

          This and their foreign policy are an international menace against all Muslims.

          They collate their hatred of Islam to their diplomatic status - which relies on their petrol links with the US.

          They cause havoc everywhere among Islamic lands and the public image of Islam.

          Muslims come into their falsehood or are repressed and persecuted by them.

          The ostentatious hypocrisy of MBS et al should make it clear to people that the Saudi Monarchy are not Islamic
          Last edited by LailaTheMuslim; 16-09-20, 12:34 PM.
          Abu Malik at-Ash'ari reported:

          The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: Cleanliness is half of faith

          and al-Hamdu Lillah (all praise and gratitude is for Allah alone) fills the scale, and Subhan Allah (Glory be to Allah)

          and al-Hamdu Lillah fill up what is between the heavens and the earth, and prayer is a light,

          and charity is proof (of one's faith)

          and endurance is a brightness and the Holy Qur'an is a proof on your behalf or against you.

          All men go out early in the morning and sell themselves, thereby setting themselves free or destroying themselves.



          حَدَّثَنَا إِسْحَاقُ بْنُ مَنْصُورٍ، حَدَّثَنَا حَبَّانُ بْنُ هِلاَلٍ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبَانٌ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى، أَنَّ زَيْدًا، حَدَّثَهُ أَنَّ أَبَا سَلاَّمٍ حَدَّثَهُ عَنْ أَبِي مَالِكٍ الأَشْعَرِيِّ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ الطُّهُورُ شَطْرُ الإِيمَانِ وَالْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ تَمْلأُ الْمِيزَانَ ‏.‏ وَسُبْحَانَ اللَّهِ وَالْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ تَمْلآنِ - أَوْ تَمْلأُ - مَا بَيْنَ السَّمَوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ وَالصَّلاَةُ نُورٌ وَالصَّدَقَةُ بُرْهَانٌ وَالصَّبْرُ ضِيَاءٌ وَالْقُرْآنُ حُجَّةٌ لَكَ أَوْ عَلَيْكَ كُلُّ النَّاسِ يَغْدُو فَبَائِعٌ نَفْسَهُ فَمُعْتِقُهَا أَوْ مُوبِقُهَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏

          Reference : Sahih Muslim 223
          In-book reference : Book 2, Hadith 1
          USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 2, Hadith 432
          (deprecated numbering scheme)

          أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

          Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


          Please take a look at my blog : http://thinkingmuslima.blogspot.co.uk/

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

            I am unsure what you are referring to here. If you mean that he makes Ta'til of the attributes such as Yad etc. then we oppose him - but I don't think he does that. I am sure aMuslimForLife could clarify.

            .
            Salafis try to argue that the Hand of Allah is an Attribute of the Essence, therefore, Allah has a literal hand (yad ala dhahiri) or a real hand (Yad haqiqatan). If that is the Salafi argument, my argument is the Prophet (saw) and his companions never called Yad an Attribute of the Essence. Therefore it is NOT obligatory for a Muslim to even believe that.

            This multiple layer interpretations, we all do it, but they can lead to wrong conclusions. All our differing opinions are based on these varied layers of interpretations. Anytime a differing opinion emerges, especially with a conclusion that is incoherent or doesn't make sense I go back to the Quran and Sunnah.

            Imam Nawawi said, “As for the basic obligation of Islam, and what relates to tenets of faith, it is adequate for one to believe in everything brought by the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) and to credit it with absolute conviction free of any doubt. Whoever does this is not obliged to learn the evidences of the scholastic theologians. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) did not require of anyone anything but what we have just mentioned, nor did the first four caliphs, the other prophetic Companions, nor others of the early Muslim community who came after them.” (al Majmo)

            I don't have a problem with saying Allah's Hand is an Attribute. However I do have a problem with saying Allah has a real hand, a literal hand etc etc. However you want to translate, Yad Haqiqatan.

            "Ibn Wahb says, I heard Malik say, "Whoever recites "The Hand of Allah" (3:73)(5:64)(48:10)(57:29) and indicates his hand or recites "The eye of Allah" (20:39)(11:37)(23:27)(52:48)(54:14) and indicates that organ of his: let it be cut off to disciple him over Divine Sacredness and Transcendence above what he has compared Him to, and above his own comparison to Him. Both his life and the limb he compared to Allah are cuff off." (Ibn al Arabi al Maliki, Ahkam al Quran)

            I doubt the one who walked out of that majlis would be saying or believing Allah has a yad Haqiqatan (a real Hand or a literal hand).

            One would walk out such a majlis saying, what Imam Shafi (d. 204 AH) said, “I believe in Allah, according to what came from Allah, according to what Allah intended. And I believe in the Messenger of Allah, according to what came from the Messenger of Allah, according to what the Messenger of Allah intended., peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.” (Ibn Qudamah in Lam’at al Itiqad)

            Or what Imam Shafi's student Imam al Humaydi said, “All that the Quran and Hadiths said, such as "The Jews say, the Hand of Allah is fettered. Their own hands are fettered."(5:64) "And the heavens are rolled up in His right hand." (39:67) and similar texts in the Quran and the hadith. We add nothing to them nor do we explain them. Rather, we stop exactly where the Quran and the Sunna stopped. You must say, "The Merciful established Himself over the Throne." (20:5). Whoever claims other than this is a Jahmi nullifier." (Al Humaydi's Musnad)

            A point to be made, Imam Malik, Imam Shafi and Imam al Humaydi did NOT say Allah's Hand was an Attribute. They just affirmed what was in the Quran and Sunnah.

            And Allah knows best.

            Last edited by aMuslimForLife; 17-09-20, 12:14 AM.
            My Blog ---> Reflections of the Traveler http://baraka.wordpress.com

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
              Hi there. I have a few thoughts I hope you might find useful.

              Firstly, the presenter of the video has a low understanding of his subject. For just two examples- he calls Saul a Satan worshipper, something Pharisees would never have done. He doesn't understand that the word apostle varies in meaning depending on its context. It's hard to take him seriously with these and other basic errors.


              There were 2 distinct groups in early Christianity: Paul & the Gentile converts vs James/Peter & the Jewish believers in Yeshua. The Pauline tradition was the victorious party due to the influx of Gentile converts throughout the following centuries. What this means is that the only Gospels and Church-Father records available to us are those that are in favour of Paul. We know for certain that Paul had Jewish opponents during his lifetime along with the Ebionites & Nazerens who succeeded them.
              I have to disagree. Paul was readily accepted by the inner disciples, and was given the tremendously important task of running the Gentile mission. He worked closely with people like Peter, who along with others would visit Paul presumably to monitor what was going on.

              Paul's approach was completely endorsed by the disciples, the ones who knew Jesus personally.

              He did run into major difficulties over continuing to observe Torah. The Jewish part of the Church was reluctant to let go of something so central to Judaism for centuries, and the conflict this caused is laid out in the New Testament. However over the person, achievements and divinity of Jesus there is no debate.

              James & Peter are even reported as being critical of Paul and overruling his judgement in Acts 21 despite the book being an attempt to justify the religious status of Paul. The discrepancies between Paul and the Disciples are equally available throughout the existing Gospels.
              I can't see the overruling in Acts 21 (but I can see a warm reception!) and am unaware of any outstanding discrepancies. Please unpack this...thanks!

              The goal of the Christian is to remove logic and reason completely out of the equation...If this for some reason is not the case, then we could potentially blame God on the Day of Judgement when He asks us why we rejected the inferior faith.
              Claiming that Islam is superior to Christianity is begging the question. Further, Christianity is firmly based on using reason and logic in the same way Islam does.


              Now if this is the case, then there is no good reason why God would allow a false religion to appear superior to His religion of truth......The test of life is too hard and He failed to distinguish truth from falsehood.

              God has allowed new religions after Islam to be successful- Mormon, Bahai and Jedi for examples. And extending your argument, why does God allow alternative religions? Why are there serious disagreements within a religion? For these and other reasons, the argument you're making for Islam against Christianity also applies against Islam. The answer for your religion is the answer for all.


              Comment

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