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  • #76
    Originally posted by Romero123 View Post
    What are some of the questions I could ask a Christian which can make them doubt their beliefs?
    Christians believe in their religion just because of the love of God (the father). Not a good idea to make them athiests. We Muslims and Christians should come to common terms between us like "Lord our God is one".

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    • #77
      "And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book (Jews and Christians), those who believe in Allah, and that which has been revealed to you and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allah: They will not sell the Revelations of Allah for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and Allah is swift in account."
      Al Qur'an - Surah-tul Imran 199
      He maketh me to lie down in green pastures; He leadeth me beside the still waters - Psalms (Zaboor of Dawood)

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      • #78
        Just show the inaccuracies and illogical beliefs of them. Oh yeah ask them what they believe in, they'll talk in circles.

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        • #79

          Originally posted by isa_muhammad View Post

          Jesus, peace be with him, is reported to have said that "I did not come to abolish the law or the prophets, but to fulfill them"
          (Matthew 5:17)
          Naturally, you will want to interpret that in a certain way, that fits the "Jesus is G-d" scenario.

          To me, it simply means that Jesus was a Jew [ sounds silly saying God was a Jew ], and he pointed out the exaggerations and misinterpretations of the law .. NOT making a new religion!
          You didn't really answer my previous arguments but since you appealed to a verse from Matthew’s Gospel let’s clear up some confusion and see what Mathew has to say about Jesus:

          Mathew 1:23 - Jesus will be called "Immanuel" (God with us)
          Mathew 7:22 - Jesus calls himself the judge of the earth
          Mathew 9:2 - Jesus forgives sins
          Mathew 11:10 - Jesus refers to himself as the LORD prophecied in Malichi 3
          Mathew 11:27 - Jesus calls himself “the Son” of God
          Mathew 12:8 - Jesus calls himself "Lord of the Sabbath" (one of the ten commandments)
          Mathew 12:17 - Jesus is referred to as the "servant" found in Isaiah. This servant is referred to in Isaiah as "A child" to be born, and "Mighty God"
          Mathew 16:13 - Jesus asks his disciples who they think he is. Peter answers "you are the Christ, the son of the living God". Jesus replied, "blessed are you, Peter because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but the Father who is in heaven."
          Mathew 19:28 - Jesus says he will sit in heaven on his glorious throne and everyone who left family for his name will inherit eternal life
          Mathew 22:41 - Jesus asks the Pharasees, " what do you think about the Christ? Whose son is He?" They answered him "the son of David." And Jesus said, "how is it that David then called him LORD? "the LORD says to my LORD, sit at my right hand, until I put you enemies under your feet""? Jesus continues, "If David called him LORD, how is He Davids son?" Jesus here is referring to himself as one of the "Lords" that David wrote about. However the Hebrew words David used were names for God.
          Mathew 27:63-66 - “And the high priest said to him (Jesus), “I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.” Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy. What is your judgment?” They answered, “He deserves death””.
          Mathew 28:18-20 - These are the last verses in Mathews Gospel where Jesus sends his disciples into the world before he ascends into heaven. Look at what he tells them; “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

          It's very difficult to argue that Jesus never claimed to be God since this Gospel was probably written by a disciple and eyewitness of Jesus and if not himself he was connected to eyewitnesses. In any case you cant use Matthew's gospel to try and say Jesus never claimed to be God when the Gospel is clear about that throughout.
          Last edited by Nickklein; 08-10-19, 01:20 PM.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Nickklein View Post
            ..It's very difficult to argue that Jesus never claimed to be God since this Gospel was written by a disciple and eyewitness of Jesus!
            What a shame .. you don't seem to have much knowledge on this subject..

            Why don't you have a look at >>The Gospel of Matthew<<

            "The majority view among scholars is that Matthew was a product of the last quarter of the 1st century. This makes it a work of the second generation of Christians, for whom the defining event was the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple by the Romans in AD 70"

            You keep on harping on about Jesus being the son of God. You don't seem to read my posts..
            The "son of God" means close to G-d (i.e. Jehovah) such as a prophet or saint and NOT A BLOOD RELATIVE or such like.

            Originally posted by Nickklein View Post
            In any case you cant use Matthew's gospel to try and say Jesus never claimed to be God.
            I don't need to
            He maketh me to lie down in green pastures; He leadeth me beside the still waters - Psalms (Zaboor of Dawood)

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            • #81
              Originally posted by isa_muhammad View Post

              What a shame .. you don't seem to have much knowledge on this subject..

              Why don't you have a look at >>The Gospel of Matthew<<
              I did edit my post to say "probably". On that your right. However I suggest instead of looking at a random wikipedia article you look into what real leading scholars have to say.
              Richard Bauckham is one of the most respected historians on this subject alive today. I suggest you read his book "Jesus and the Eyewitnesses". Actually the case that the gosepls are eyewitness testimony of Jesus (even if not written by eyewitnesses) is actually very strong.

              Originally posted by isa_muhammad View Post
              You keep on harping on about Jesus being the son of God. You don't seem to read my posts..
              The "son of God" means close to G-d (i.e. Jehovah) such as a prophet or saint and NOT A BLOOD RELATIVE or such like.
              That obviously doesn't make sense of most of the references I shared.

              Originally posted by isa_muhammad View Post
              I don't need to
              But you were trying to in an earlier post. I was really just responding to that. But actually we know that that's what the first disciples beleived about Jesus anyways because of the Philipians song and the 1 Corinthians creed.
              Last edited by Nickklein; 08-10-19, 07:24 PM. Reason: Spelling

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Nickklein View Post
                ..I suggest instead of looking at a random wikipedia article..
                What is random about it?

                Originally posted by Nickklein View Post
                Richard Bauckham is one of the most respected historians on this subject alive today.
                Yeah .. "one of"
                It's like my broadband speed "up to 100MB" or our product "kills 99% of known germs" etc.


                Originally posted by Nickklein View Post
                I suggest you read his book "Jesus and the Eyewitnesses"..
                Thanks, but no thanks. That is what I like about wikipedia .. it doesn't tend to be biased. It is peer reviewed.

                Originally posted by Nickklein View Post
                That obviously doesn't make sense of most of the references I shared.
                On the contrary, it makes a lot of sense.
                A literal son would mean that G-d has a physical body, which He does NOT!

                Originally posted by Nickklein View Post
                But you were trying to in an earlier post..
                If you say so..
                Last edited by isa_muhammad; 09-10-19, 12:03 AM.
                He maketh me to lie down in green pastures; He leadeth me beside the still waters - Psalms (Zaboor of Dawood)

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                • #83
                  Jesus Christ said, "I have not come to abolish the law". Law was monotheism. Why Christians are polythiests?

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Eyas Shah View Post
                    Jesus Christ said, "I have not come to abolish the law". Law was monotheism. Why Christians are polythiests?
                    The meaning of fulfilling the law means Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies that pointed to him in Messiah in that specific time period and those prophecies that were meant to be fulfilled at that specific time, it also means that Christ brings out the true essence of the law of Moses, such as when he says “you have been told not to commit murder, but I tell you anyone who hates his brother has already murdered him,”or when he says that “anyone who looks at a women lustfully has already committed adultery in his heart.” Yes the Law does teach Monotheism and we as Christians cannot be Christians if we are Polytheists, we worship only One God.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Al Masihi View Post

                      Yes the Law does teach Monotheism and we as Christians cannot be Christians if we are Polytheists, we worship only One God.
                      Being a monothiest is better for your hereafter.

                      We Muslims believe in what has been revealed to you (Torah, Psalms, Gospel) and what has been revealed to us (Holy Qur'an). We Muslims and Christians can walk together when it comes to religion and spirituality.

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