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The absurdity of Christianity

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Abisali View Post

    You can have both because in the Law of Allah, that He clearly dictates to us, states that he will do either if we follow the guidelines.

    We as the creation don't need to know all of the reasonings behind Allah's intent. Allah doesn't answer to us, we answer to him, we were only made to worship him, not question his every action. My question to you is, why should he have made us perfect? What will Allah gain from making us perfect when Allah is Perfect and had dominion over everything? We have no effect on Allah's holiness, saying otherwise is saying that we have some kind of power over him, which we do not. Our sinning doesn't affect Allah in any way, we only hurt ourselves when we sin. Allah forgiving our sins doesn't negate any of His Holiness, it just shows us how He is a Kind, and Fair and Merciful Ruler since He is sticking to His promise to forgive. Saying He needs a sacrifice is what removes holiness, because in essence, you're putting restrictions on Him. Saying God had to be born from a female creation removes His Holiness. Saying God died for our sins removes from His holiness. God has need for nothing when he wants to do anything.

    If we needed a sacrifice for our sins, then there would be no need for Judgement Day. If Jesus was meant to be a sacrifice, he would have stated it clearly and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    At the end of the day, Christians don't have enough faith and trust in Allahs Mercy, which is why they hold on to the false doctrine of the trinity.
    You can have both? So God compromises, God makes the law, the law meant to be obeyed. Man breaks the law, inevitable, but God may or may not forgive. Kind of leaving you in a state of limbo. Do we keep the law, does it have value if there remains the possibility that God may arbitrarily forgive you.

    Of course you you don’t need to know and in fact it’s sheer arrogance of man to hope to know the workings of God. That’s a given. If God created us only to worship Him why did He give us free will? God exists outside His creation if we were never created it would make no difference to the existence of God, our being here or not makes no difference at all. So there must be another reason. Christianity and Judaism answer this. I’m not sure Islam does.

    Now when it comes to “perfect” lets be clear, nothing can compare to Gods perfection. Let’s say that’s in a class of its own. Yet the Bible clearly states all God made including man was made good and pleasing to God. Sin and evil is not, as we know pleasing to God. So man must have been as near to perfection as God desired. But as there is no value in worship if not freely given man was blessed with free will, that is how death and sin entered the world through free will. To say God is not effected in any way by our sin I’m not sure is accurate, for surely it hurts God when his most loved creation falls to sin, but that of course does not in anyway effect Gods Holiness. It’s not about God needing a sacrifice for sins against him, for God has no needs. It’s God demanding a sacrifice as is Gods right. God himself instigated the first sacrifice to cover the sin of Adam and Eve from that time on until Christ.

    I fail to see what the trinity has has to do with Christians view of faith in God’s mercy. The trinity is simply a mechanism that demonstrates Gods supreme love for creation. And it’s Gods love that moves everything. We were created from Gods love, we are forgiven our transgressions through Gods love. We are offered life eternal through Gods love. There’s nothing false about that.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Nickklein View Post

      To the first part yes, the quran states that no bearer of burdens can bear the burdens of another. But according to both the quran and the bible Jesus never bore burdens (sin). Therefore technically he could bear the burdens of someone else, however even if he couldnt the Christian doctrine of Jesus deity solves this issue. God can most certainly choose to bear anothers burdens if he wants to.
      Interesting. So you are saying that it's a burden for one, but not another? So that sins are beared by other than the guilty, however it's no burden?

      Can you point to where it says in the Quran that Jesus(as) never bore burdens and/or sin?

      Why and in what sense is Jesus(as) considered to be the son of God? Why not Adam(as)?

      I with appreciate it if you don't mind my questions

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Pip1 View Post

        You can have both? So God compromises, God makes the law, the law meant to be obeyed. Man breaks the law, inevitable, but God may or may not forgive. Kind of leaving you in a state of limbo. Do we keep the law, does it have value if there remains the possibility that God may arbitrarily forgive you.

        Of course you you don’t need to know and in fact it’s sheer arrogance of man to hope to know the workings of God. That’s a given. If God created us only to worship Him why did He give us free will? God exists outside His creation if we were never created it would make no difference to the existence of God, our being here or not makes no difference at all. So there must be another reason. Christianity and Judaism answer this. I’m not sure Islam does.

        Now when it comes to “perfect” lets be clear, nothing can compare to Gods perfection. Let’s say that’s in a class of its own. Yet the Bible clearly states all God made including man was made good and pleasing to God. Sin and evil is not, as we know pleasing to God. So man must have been as near to perfection as God desired. But as there is no value in worship if not freely given man was blessed with free will, that is how death and sin entered the world through free will. To say God is not effected in any way by our sin I’m not sure is accurate, for surely it hurts God when his most loved creation falls to sin, but that of course does not in anyway effect Gods Holiness. It’s not about God needing a sacrifice for sins against him, for God has no needs. It’s God demanding a sacrifice as is Gods right. God himself instigated the first sacrifice to cover the sin of Adam and Eve from that time on until Christ.

        I fail to see what the trinity has has to do with Christians view of faith in God’s mercy. The trinity is simply a mechanism that demonstrates Gods supreme love for creation. And it’s Gods love that moves everything. We were created from Gods love, we are forgiven our transgressions through Gods love. We are offered life eternal through Gods love. There’s nothing false about that.
        It isn't a compromise. Allah's Justice isn't the same as Mans justice. Allah knows what is in our hearts, He knows our intentions, and He knows what we are going to do before we do it. Yes, Allah made a Law, and He also knows that mankind is going to break some of them if not all of them, which is why he put a clause into the Law that states "sincerely repent and you will be forgiven". The Law will always have value since it is the Word of Allah. You are supposed to have a balance when it comes to faith, you're supposed to do your best to uphold the laws, and when you slip up, you're supposed to stand up and try again, while having faith in your Creator that He will forgive you your sins.

        A problem I see with Christians is that they think that they, as a creation of Allah, are more important than they really are. To say that Allah is affected and gets hurt by our sins is ridiculous. Nothing can hurt Allah, especially not some human who has no power. Allah is far above His creation, He has no need for us, but He chose to create us and bless us with many things that we don't deserve. The only think Allah demands from us is to worship Him and obey His laws. There is no need for a sacrifice because the only ones that sins hurt are the sinner, not Allah. They don't taint or harm Him in any way, they only harm us. It is easy for Allah to erase or forgive sins.

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