Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Do Jews have to keep the Torah when converting to Islam?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Assalamu alaykum

    The Jewish rejection of the Messiah is among their most unfortunate forms of blasphemies against Allah(swt). Jesus Christ was granted Prophethood and various signs to justify his claiming of the Messiah. He was also prophesied throughout the Jewish scriptures.

    The most common objections that modern Jews put forth in their rejection of Jesus (from my experience) are the following:

    1) Christianity teaches the doctrine of the Trinity, which is Idolatry. Therefore, Jesus is not the Messiah.

    2) Jesus(as) did not fulfill the Messianic expectations of restoring Israel's sovereignty like that of King Davids. He died, therefore he's not the Messiah.


    And if he’s not successful (restoring the Kingdom of David) with this, or if he is killed, it’s known that he is not the one that was promised by the Torah,” Maimonides wrote.
    --------

    1) 'Orthodox' Christianity is a fundamentally flawed religion. The positions of the church do not accurately present the pure teachings of Jesus.


    Christians put forth that the Messiah was successful in his Prophetic-mission, because the Messiah had to suffer. Paul initiates/expands this belief to the utmost extreme, and makes it the core theme of his theology. From a Muslim perspective, what took place with Jesus Christ was a catastrophe which brought about the anger of Allah(swt), and His cursing of the Bani Israel.

    The Biblical Jesus is seen to go through two stages in the gospels. Jesus's did not begin his mission calling people to have faith in an upcoming crucifixion. There are contradictions in the Biblical narratives--theological insertions of the writers. One thing is certain, the contemporaries of Jesus were not at all expecting a crucified Messiah. Even the disciples themselves could not accept/understand Jesus when he foretold his crucifixion and resurrection. The Jews were, and still are, anticipating a successful political leader, who will establish God's Kingdom upon the earth.

    Jesus's miracles and exorcisms were becoming well known among the general people of his time. His criticism of the scribes and the pharisees is a consistent theme throughout the gospels. His growing popularity inevitablely threaten the integrity of the religious elite. Out of desperation they turned to the state to have him crucified; and they were successful, despite the weakness in the allegations they made against him. As previously mentioned, this was not what the Jews theologically believed would happen to the Messiah; which I believe is a significant point, in understanding why the early Christians were such a mess in their theology.

    The earlier synoptic gospels present Jesus as a human Messiah, and not God Himself. It's also possible to argue that Paul and John believed that Jesus was created by God, and was not fully God; although their beliefs on Jesus being 'Lord' may be deemed as heretical innovations by both Jews and Muslims. Unquestionably, both Paul and John had highly exalted views of Christ, but I personally don't think that they believed in Jesus's absolute Divinity. Even if they did believe that he was God, or a Person of God, not all of the gospels share that view. Such emphasises is only found in John's gospel and not in the 3 gospels preceding it, which has caused many to disregard John's narrative as being historically inaccurate.


    Islam doesn't share the problems Christianity was born into.The 'Islamic Jesus' is presented as a human Messenger, who, like all Prophets(as), is protected from polytheism.
    Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 19-03-18, 06:51 PM.

    Comment


    • #17
      2) The Messiah will certainly establish the Kingdom of God. He will spread pure Abrahamic Monotheism throughout the entire Earth .. But this will take place during his second coming.

      The Jews often mock at the idea of a 'second coming', seeing that such a response could justify the 'failures' of any false claimant. That may be true in a sense, but Islam has a far more reasonable justification in contrast to the Christian narrative.

      The Islamic perspective is that God raised Jesus(as), but made it appear as if he was crucified as a means of punishing the disbelieving Jews. By saving Jesus, theology doesn't drastically change, nor can anyone say that Jesus failed. The Jews become disbelievers, and God establishes their Monotheistic successors; who unlike the Jews, have accepted the Messiah--while they welcome the Anti Christ, and eternal punishment.

      "The people of the Scripture ask of thee that thou shouldst cause an (actual) Book to descend upon them from heaven. They asked a greater thing of Moses aforetime, for they said: Show us Allah plainly. The storm of lightning seized them for their wickedness. Then (even) after that) they chose the calf (for worship) after clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) had come unto them. And We forgave them that! And We bestowed on Moses evident authority."

      "And We caused the Mount to tower above them at (the taking of) their covenant: and We bade them: Enter the gate, prostrate! and We bode them: Transgress not the Sabbath! and We took from them a firm covenant.

      Then (We cursed them) because of their breaking of their covenant, and their disbelieving in the revelations of Allah, and their slaying of the prophets wrongfully, and their saying: Our hearts are hardened - Nay, but Allah set a seal upon them for their disbelief, so that they believe not save a few -

      And because of their disbelief and of their speaking against Mary a tremendous calumny;


      And their saying, ‘We did kill the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah;’ whereas they slew him not, nor crucified him, but he was made to appear to them like one crucified; and those who differ therein are certainly in a state of doubt about it; they have no definite knowledge thereof, but only follow a conjecture; and they did not convert this conjecture into a certainty; [4:153-157]

      Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 19-03-18, 10:50 AM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Jesus was the awaited Messiah, who fulfilled various prophecies, and performed miracles by Allah's permission on a consistent basis. This can not be explained except by the assistance of God. Jesus preached monotheism, belief in the previous Revelations, sincere worship, and repentance. He, as a Prophet, did not however agree with the Rabbinic tradition, which cancels the decrees of God. Rejection of the Messiah, and even Muhammad(as), is done through the excess authority given to non-prophetic traditions, and self-affirmative doctrines.

        The question which the truth seeking Jew should ask is: If Jesus was the Messiah, and our ancestors did 'murder' him, then would God punish Israel for rejecting Judaisms most anticipated figure? Or would he just let it slide, and forgive us as He did innumerable times in the past?

        I would say that the Abrahamic God does not present himself as a naive God, who you can walk-over. You can not cheat God. Covenants are not unbreakable oaths by which a hypocrite can oppress God. Covenants are conditioned by the sincerity, and righteous application of the pledger. God is not our slave, that He should fulfill His promises of granting victory and spiritual blessings, to a nation which has neglected their own duties towards Him. Rather, God replaces the wicked, with those who are righteous and sincere.

        Isaiah 42 mentions that God will produce a Prophet(as) that will "Sing a new song", "a light for the Gentiles", and mentions both Kedar (Arabs) and Sella (Madina); along with other qualities and traits that match Muhammads(saws) biography. God promises Ishmael a great nation--Muhammad was an Ishmaelite. The Book of Malachi mentions Gods curse upon the spiritually corrupted Jews, and mentions that his name will be great among the Nations(Gentiles). The Prophet Muhammad(saws) is also the Prophet(as) most like Moses(as) in [Deut:18:18].


        To conclude: I believe the Jewish understanding insults the Intelligence and the Divine Control God has over His creation. If Muhammad(saws) and Jesus(as) are false Prophets, then why did God allow these figures to exist with such religiously persuasive influence? If Jesus and Muhammad(as) are not the fulfillment of the alleged prophecies, then who has fulfilled them? If no one has fulfilled them, then what's taking so long? Isaiah 42 can never be re-fulfilled, because Islam will never seize to be relevant in those lands, and among those people. Why did God allow them to preach Abrahamic Monotheism, and why did they perform consistent miracles? Why is there a book called the 'Quran', with all the persuasive qualities it possesses--if the book is a slander upon God? There are over 2-3 Billion gentiles who believe in Abraham, and ascribe to the One God, due to the efforts of these men. Why would God honour false Prophets in such a manner--could he not aid His own religion through authentic Prophets whom He is pleased with?

        Allahu alam
        Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 19-03-18, 10:24 AM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
          Jesus was the awaited Messiah, who fulfilled various prophecies, and performed miracles by Allah's permission on a consistent basis. This can not be explained except by the assistance of the God he's claiming to represent. Jesus called to monotheism, belief in the previous Revelations, sincere worship, and repentance. He, as a Prophet, did not however agree with the Rabbinic tradition, which cancels the decrees of God. Rejection of the Messiah, and even Muhammad(as), is done through the excess authority given to non-prophetic traditions, and self-affirmative doctrines.

          The question which the truth seeking Jew should ask is: If Jesus was the Messiah, and our ancestors did unjustly 'murder' him, then would God retaliate with vengeance for having disbelieved in Judaisms most anticipated figure? Or would he just let it slide, and forgive us as He did innumerable times in the past?

          I would say that the Abrahamic God does not present himself as a naive God. You can not cheat or rob God. Covenants are not unbreakable oaths by which a hypocrite can oppress God. Covenants are conditioned by the sincerity, and righteous application of the pledger. God is not a slave, that He should fulfill His promises of granting victory and spiritual blessings, to a nation which has neglected their own duties towards Him. Rather, God replaces the wicked, with those who are righteous and sincere.

          Isaiah 42 mentions that God will produce a Prophet(as) that will "Sing a new song", "a light for the Gentiles", and mentions both Kedar (Arabs) and Sella (Madina); along with other qualities and traits that match Muhammads(saws) biography. God promises Ishmael a great nation--Muhammad was an Ishmaelite. The Book of Malachi mentions Gods curse upon the spiritually corrupted Jews, and mentions that his name will be great among the Nations(Gentiles). The Prophet Muhammad(saws) is also the Prophet(as) most like Moses(as) in [Deut:18:18].


          To conclude: I believe the Jewish understanding insults the Intelligence and the Divine Control God has over His creation. If Muhammad(saws) and Jesus(as) are false Prophets, then why did God allow these figures to exist with such religiously persuasive influence? If Jesus and Muhammad(as) are not the fulfillment of the alleged prophecies, then who has fulfilled them? If no one has fulfilled them, then what's taking so long? Isaiah 42 can never be re-fulfilled, because Islam will never seize to be relevant in those lands, and among those people. Why did God allow them to preach Abrahamic Monotheism, and why did they perform consistent miracles? Why is there a book called the 'Quran', with all the persuasive qualities it possesses--if the book is a slander upon God? There are over 2-3 Billion gentiles who believe in Abraham, and ascribe to the One God, due to the efforts of these men. Why would God honour false Prophets in such a manner--could he not aid His own religion through authentic Prophets whom He is pleased with?

          Allahu alam
          Could You adress the claim the Hebrew Torah is unchanged

          in Islam we know this is false for a number of reasons but how would you explain it to a jew

          my area of expertise is more dealing with christianity I haven't had much exposure to Judaism
          What if you woke up today with only the things you thanked Allah for yesterday?

          We worry about tomorrow as if its guaranteed

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Musbah View Post

            Problem is that most of the jews today are a converted peoples, a.k.a. Askenazi, who are descended from Khazaria in Southern Russia in the 10th century which means they are illegitimate jews not having any rightful claim in Palestine since they are not a Semitic people from the blood of Abraham a.s.
            Akhi I'm not surprised at all,
            ​​​​​
            According to their book "God" gave Abraham the Nile to the Euphrates, but unfortunately for Abraham he had to buy the place of his burial, according to the Bible

            Just one of the failed prophecies

            نعوذ بالله من ذلك
            http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

            "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

            – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

            Comment

            Working...
            X