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    Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Racism has always bugged me for as long as I can remeber and more recently finding out that the two sheiks I held dear most in ibn Taymiyah and Albani support the belief that Arabs are superior...It is the last straw.

    When people are racist its fine, cause hey its imperfect creations. But now that I have learned that your geographical location birthplace and ethnic background can make you superior to others I have given up.

    It is hypocracy at its best. Muslims always talk about how can men be responsible for the sins of the past when trying to counter christianity...

    How can Arabs today be any superior when many of them are incompetent, kabsa eating lazy people. Not to mention they are in an absoulte humiliation.


    let these sink in, I as a Minority have been less racially judged in a non-muslim environment. Before Islam, I was with women off different ethnicities and i even met their families.

    Fact is, racism in islam is so subtle yet to engrained. While Non muslims have a lot of extreme racist, the numbers of non-racist individuals fare great in number.

    Tldr?

    - Many Muslims are racist
    - Scholars support Ethnic superiority.

    #2
    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

    Why leave Islam over this? Are you willing to go to hell because you do not like the views of the ulama and some Muslims are racist?
    "Had Allah lifted the veil for his slave and shown him how He handles his affairs for him, and how Allah is more keen for the benefit of the slave than his own self, his heart would have melted out of the love for Allah and would have been torn to pieces out of thankfulness to Allah. Therefore if the pains of this world tire you do not grieve. For it may be that Allah wishes to hear your voice by way of duaa. So pour out your desires in prostration and forget about it and know; that verily Allah does not forget it."
    - Ibn al Qayyim (rahimahullah)

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

      I don't agree that Islam is racist. It says in the Qur'an :

      O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.

      Surah 49 (al-hujurat) verse 13.

      The Qur'an tells us that Allah created us through male and female and made into nations and tribes, that we know one another. Yet, the most noble are the most righteous.

      Don't go into factitious debates about race when we know that only good deeds and not lineage will get you in Paradise.

      For example, although the Quraish were blessed with the Nabi :saw: being from their tribe, you had Quraish rejectors like Abu Lahab, and non-Arabs who accepted Islam like Salman the Persian (ra).

      The former is cursed to this day and the latter was blessed by Allah and is still mentioned favourably by all Muslims.

      Just focus on yourself and worship Allah - the one who created YOU!
      وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

      And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


      أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

      Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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      Comment


        #4
        Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

        Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
        I don't agree that Islam is racist. It says in the Qur'an :

        O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.

        Surah 49 (al-hujurat) verse 13.

        The Qur'an tells us that Allah created us through male and female and made into nations and tribes, that we know one another. Yet, the most noble are the most righteous.

        Don't go into factitious debates about race when we know that only good deeds and not lineage will get you in Paradise.

        For example, although the Quraish were blessed with the Nabi :saw: being from their tribe, you had Quraish rejectors like Abu Lahab, and non-Arabs who accepted Islam like Salman the Persian (ra).

        The former is cursed to this day and the latter was blessed by Allah and is still mentioned favourably by all Muslims.

        Just focus on yourself and worship Allah - the one who created YOU!
        Good point, I will like to add that the concept of race is a white men's invention. There is no such thing as "black" people and "white" people. However, the different colors of people is a sign from the signs of Allah:

        1) And of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the diversity of your languages and your colors. Indeed in that are signs for those of knowledge.(Surah 30:22).

        You should judge Islam by the Quran and the sunnah, not by the opinions of Albani or Ibn Taymiyyah.

        Arabs are not superior to other groups, in fact, Allah criticizes the bedouins from among the Arabs:

        2) The bedouins are stronger in disbelief and hypocrisy and more likely not to know the limits of what [laws] Allah has revealed to His Messenger. And Allah is Knowing and Wise.(Surah 9:97)
        Last edited by Calender121438; 16-09-17, 12:10 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

          Originally posted by WolfandBear123 View Post
          let these sink in, I as a Minority have been less racially judged in a non-muslim environment.
          Racism occurs in both muslim and non-muslim environments. However, it is something that you find almost exclusively in the lower classes, especially among the godless factory workers, who try to over-compensate their natural and innate inferiority by being racist. The hoi polloi are scum. Just get over it.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

            I dont know if they actually said this but either way it doesnt matter as the prophet :saw: theres no difference between arab non arab
            Skin color aswell

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

              Complain about racism,

              Originally posted by WolfandBear123 View Post
              How can Arabs today be any superior when many of them are incompetent, kabsa eating lazy people. Not to mention they are in an absoulte humiliation.
              And then say something wildly racist?

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

                Originally posted by WolfandBear123 View Post
                Racism has always bugged me for as long as I can remeber and more recently finding out that the two sheiks I held dear most in ibn Taymiyah and Albani support the belief that Arabs are superior...It is the last straw.
                If your Islam is to worship certain scholars as if whatever they say is correct even though it may be contrary to Quran and other authentic Sunnah, it is better that you leave such an Islam this is itself some sort of shirk prohibited in Quran, this is not Islam.
                Note: I am a shia.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

                  Originally posted by WolfandBear123 View Post
                  - Many Muslims are racists
                  - Scholars support Ethnic superiority.
                  You anonymously accuse two righteous and pious scholars of hypocrisy and deficiency in character, and then say you want to leave Islam.

                  And you add at the bottom, perhaps by mistake, your, talking points.

                  I don't believe you. Rather, I suspect you are a liar, a false propagandist seeking to attack Islam, especially " salafi dawah" as part of the kufar's imperial domination over the MUSLIM world.

                  You don't show any sign of being a Muslim.

                  Where have these scholars shown "racism"? Where is the evidence?
                  Where is the evidence against all Muslims? And wh are t circumstances surrounding Muslim societies?

                  Rather, your post on this forum appears to be that of a disbelieving troll.

                  Both of the pious shuyukh are free of your slanderous lies.
                  Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
                  " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

                    Originally posted by Abu Kamel View Post
                    You anonymously accuse two righteous and pious scholars of hypocrisy and deficiency in character, and then say you want to leave Islam.

                    And you add at the bottom, perhaps by mistake, your, talking points.

                    I don't believe you. Rather, I suspect you are a liar, a false propagandist seeking to attack Islam, especially " salafi dawah" as part of the kufar's imperial domination over the MUSLIM world.

                    You don't show any sign of being a Muslim.

                    Where have these scholars shown "racism"? Where is the evidence?
                    Where is the evidence against all Muslims? And wh are t circumstances surrounding Muslim societies?

                    Rather, your post on this forum appears to be that of a disbelieving troll.

                    Both of the pious shuyukh are free of your slanderous lies.
                    I do not know about Sheikh Albani(may Allah have mercy on him) but Ibn Taymiyyah did say that. I knew it before he posted this thread.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

                      Originally posted by Calender121438 View Post
                      I do not know about Sheikh Albani(may Allah have mercy on him) but Ibn Taymiyyah did say that. I knew it before he posted this thread.
                      You know he was a racist?
                      What proof do you have to slander him with racism?

                      It should be mentioned in the actual context of a book, a discussion, with a reality.

                      BTW. The Troll OP appeared to be using American ideological context to present his/her slanderous accusation. That is to say, "racism" in America and in the modern context refers to 19th century Occult based theories of 3 races, and that there are different human races, and that "white" Caucasian race is superior and more evolved than all other races.

                      So where does Ibn Taymiyah (rh) claim these?

                      And are you a sufi?
                      Last edited by Abu Kamel; 18-09-17, 11:35 AM.
                      Allahumma, aranee al haqqu haqqan wa arzuqnee itiba`ahu, wa aranee al baatilu baatilaan wa arzuqnee ijtinaabahu.Oh Allah! show us the truth as true, and inspire us to follow it. Show us falsehood as falsehood, and inspire us to abstain from it.
                      " Do you know what destroys Islam? A mistake made by a scholar, the argument of a hypocrite in writing and the ruling of leaders who wish for people to stray

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

                        Originally posted by Abu Kamel View Post
                        You know he was a racist?
                        What proof do you have to slander him with racism?

                        It should be mentioned in the actual context of a book, a discussion, with a reality.

                        BTW. The Troll OP appeared to be using American ideological context to present his/her slanderous accusation. That is to say, "racism" in America and in the modern context refers to 19th century Occult based theories of 3 races, and that there are different human races, and that "white" Caucasian race is superior and more evolved than all other races.

                        So where does Ibn Taymiyah (rh) claim these?

                        And are you a sufi?
                        You do not have to be a "sufi" to have a problem with Ibn Taymiyah. I am a "sunni" but I do avoid the teachings of Ibn Taymiyah. My reasons for that is not only because of his views on the superiority of the Arabs. That view of his is well known, I first found it on Islamqa but they took it down now.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

                          Originally posted by Abu Kamel View Post
                          You anonymously accuse two righteous and pious scholars of hypocrisy and deficiency in character, and then say you want to leave Islam.

                          And you add at the bottom, perhaps by mistake, your, talking points.

                          I don't believe you. Rather, I suspect you are a liar, a false propagandist seeking to attack Islam, especially " salafi dawah" as part of the kufar's imperial domination over the MUSLIM world.

                          You don't show any sign of being a Muslim.

                          Where have these scholars shown "racism"? Where is the evidence?
                          Where is the evidence against all Muslims? And wh are t circumstances surrounding Muslim societies?

                          Rather, your post on this forum appears to be that of a disbelieving troll.

                          Both of the pious shuyukh are free of your slanderous lies.
                          Straw Man argument there. Nowhere did the OP accuse the scholars of hypocrisy or deficiency in character, but you assumed it and used that as the basis to call the OP a:

                          liar, a false propagandist seeking to attack Islam,
                          and:

                          You don't show any sign of being a Muslim.
                          and:

                          Rather, your post on this forum appears to be that of a disbelieving troll.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

                            Originally posted by Calender121438 View Post
                            You do not have to be a "sufi" to have a problem with Ibn Taymiyah. I am a "sunni" but I do avoid the teachings of Ibn Taymiyah. My reasons for that is not only because of his views on the superiority of the Arabs. That view of his is well known, I first found it on Islamqa but they took it down now.
                            No scholar is free from mistakes.
                            "Had Allah lifted the veil for his slave and shown him how He handles his affairs for him, and how Allah is more keen for the benefit of the slave than his own self, his heart would have melted out of the love for Allah and would have been torn to pieces out of thankfulness to Allah. Therefore if the pains of this world tire you do not grieve. For it may be that Allah wishes to hear your voice by way of duaa. So pour out your desires in prostration and forget about it and know; that verily Allah does not forget it."
                            - Ibn al Qayyim (rahimahullah)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Considering leaving Islam due to Racial heirchy in Islamic communities..

                              Originally posted by WolfandBear123 View Post
                              Racism has always bugged me for as long as I can remeber and more recently finding out that the two sheiks I held dear most in ibn Taymiyah and Albani support the belief that Arabs are superior...It is the last straw.

                              When people are racist its fine, cause hey its imperfect creations. But now that I have learned that your geographical location birthplace and ethnic background can make you superior to others I have given up.

                              It is hypocracy at its best. Muslims always talk about how can men be responsible for the sins of the past when trying to counter christianity...

                              How can Arabs today be any superior when many of them are incompetent, kabsa eating lazy people. Not to mention they are in an absoulte humiliation.


                              let these sink in, I as a Minority have been less racially judged in a non-muslim environment. Before Islam, I was with women off different ethnicities and i even met their families.

                              Fact is, racism in islam is so subtle yet to engrained. While Non muslims have a lot of extreme racist, the numbers of non-racist individuals fare great in number.

                              Tldr?

                              - Many Muslims are racist
                              - Scholars support Ethnic superiority.
                              Islam says the non Arab is not superior to the Arab, except in piety.

                              Way back in the day, I wouldn't really have a problem with saying Arabs were superior. Why? Because they were the beacons of Islam for a long time, they were generally the more pious ones and were the ones Allah chose to spread Islam. They had the best scholars, and preached unity under a Caliphate for a long time.

                              However, these days, Arabs are clearly not superior. Many of them are fat, selfish, listen to music, dance, engage in riba, etc. They are no better than anyone else (they are in fact arguably worse).

                              As for this whole Arab superiority thing, I've lived among Arabs. I've known and continue to know Arabs. Do some of them have a sense of superiority over others? Yes, but it's nowhere near as bad as people say. Other communities among Muslims have arguably even worse forms of racism.

                              However, this isn't Islam. Islam clearly states that only piety makes you superior to someone else, your blood won't save you from Allah's punishment. One of the Sahabah known as Bilal (May Allah Be Pleased With Him) was a black man, Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) said to accept black people as Caliph's, even if they seize the position by force. If Islam was so racist, why not just leave Bilal (May Allah Be Pleased With Him) to be a kafir and not allow dark skinned people to become the Caliph?

                              Islam thoroughly denounces shrines, yet we know for a fact many disobey this rule today. Does that mean Islam is a religion of shrine worshipping? Of course not!

                              Calm down, racism isn't Islamic and only exists among the non practising Muslim community, I've never met a racist yet pious Muslim in my life. Even the racist non practising Muslims aren't that bad in terms of their discrimination, stop crying.
                              Last edited by dsr478; 18-09-17, 05:08 PM.

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