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    Does Allah love women less? Are we second best to men?

    Salams, im not a troll here, but I dont feel like Allah loves me as much as He loves men. Men have many more privalleges over women, they have more rights. It is the women that have to please their husbands and be obedient to them.
    Men can take many wives and the term 'what his rights hands possess' is often in the Quran, so men can take many female slaves. It even states in Surah Nisa that
    'men were created weak (in that they cannot wait for sexual intercourse)' and that 'men were created to excel (over women).'

    Women on the other hand, must be obedient to their husbands, patient and loyal. We are expected to be subservient to men. Although hijab offers us freedom from being a sex symbol and other things may elevate our status. But in a marriage, it seems we are second best.
    I'm a muslim woman and I believe in Islam mainly because scientifically it is correct, it makes 'sense'.

    But I can't understand why women are second best to men.

    Could you please give some comments, because I really dont want to continue thinking in this manner and I hope that there is something I have missed, misunderstood, mis read because I would be really sad to believe muslim women arent as valued as men. It doesnt seem fair.

    And im only posting here because I want some guidance, not trolling, so seriously, please reply.

    #2
    Re: Does Allah love women less? Are we second best to men?

    sister i really dont think we are 2nd best or Allah loves the women any less. the way some men talk, they want us to believe that but everyone is equal to Allah except by piety & goodness so doesnt matter race or gender rich poor whatever, wht matters is your deeds & actions & behaviour. as for the rulings that are different for men & women we have to accept this due to Allahs wisdom but its not really a factor in how much someone could be beloved to Allah or not? wasnt this ayah revealed when some of the women were asking a similar question?
    إِنَّ الْمُسْلِمِينَ وَالْمُسْلِمَاتِ وَالْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتِ وَالْقَانِتِينَ وَالْقَانِتَاتِ وَالصَّادِقِينَ وَالصَّادِقَاتِ وَالصَّابِرِينَ وَالصَّابِرَاتِ وَالْخَاشِعِينَ وَالْخَاشِعَاتِ وَالْمُتَصَدِّقِينَ وَالْمُتَصَدِّقَاتِ وَالصَّائِمِينَ وَالصَّائِمَاتِ وَالْحَافِظِينَ فُرُوجَهُمْ وَالْحَافِظَاتِ وَالذَّاكِرِينَ اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا وَالذَّاكِرَاتِ أَعَدَّ اللَّهُ لَهُم مَّغْفِرَةً وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًا
    VERILY, for all men and women who have sur*rendered themselves unto God, and all believing men and believing women, and all truly devout men and truly devout women, and all men and women who are true to their word, and all men and women who are patient in adversity, and all men and women who humble themselves [before God], and all men and women who give in charity, and all self-denying men and self-denying women, [38] and all men and women who are mindful of their chastity, [39] and all men and women who remember God unceasingly: for [all of] them has God readied forgiveness of sins and a mighty reward
    surah ahzab ayah 35


    I never heard the tafsir of surah nisaa to be specifically about men are weak as in being unable to wait for sex? al-insaan (the word used in that ayah) refers to men and women equally
    its better translation is mankind, not just men as in males.. would be interested to know where that interpretation is from as really it seems strange! is it from a legit source or what?

    also sis its true in marriage husbands have rights over us, but we also have rights over them. it should be a two way thing, men have a degree over women in responsibilities towards us, thats not necessarily the same thing as excelling and making us subservient. i feel a bit sad to read this post from u. seriously sis dont let any man make u think these things and definitely dont think Allah will love u less for being a woman. the duties that we do as a wife and mother are also an opertunity to gain the pleasure of Allah, and yes we should be patient, loyal to husband etc (so they also should be to us..) but those are opertunities to get the pleasure of Allah and His reward just from these simple things. And dont forget we have got one of the greatest honour in life, which men will never have which is of being a mother, which is such an important status in Islam and such a chance for earning reward and expiation of sin thru the difficulties of pregnancy and birth etc..
    .: Rufaida :.
    .:Fa Firroo Ila-llaah:.
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      #3
      Re: Does Allah love women less? Are we second best to men?

      Dear Sister

      women do not loose out on any reward that the men get for their good deed; for example, if the man goes out to jihad and five daily salaahs with jammat in mosque, when the women caters to the mans need; cooks for him, washes his clothes etc, she will get the same reward that the man gets for his jihadi deeds


      women are blessed in different ways then men; women have the honour of being a mother; they have more compassion in them and are more loving and kind in nature; they do not have to go out and work to provide for the family [for that is the husbands duty], they are looked after by the man, treasured and loved like a diamond pearl, so when one weighs the blessings and rights on/of man and woman it can be seen that both man and woman are immensely blessed so their is no imbalance or unequality there

      the loyalty and obedience of the woman towards her man is the natural result of man being the provider; thus the duties here are balanced out

      the slave woman is a reward for the mans jihad; it is for the benifit of the slave woman and her master, but as i say, women have some blessings men dont, for example it is generally the man that risks his life on the battle field while the woman stays in the comfort of her home, so it is only apt that the man is eligible for a slave-woman reward [allthough this dont apply in this day and age]; a slave woman takes away a great burden of household work from the woman of the house, thus she becomes sort of a reward for the woman too

      there are different interpretations regarding the 'excelling' mentioned in the Quran of men over women; some interpretations say it means some men are favoured over other MEN and not reffering to women at all, but even if the favouring over women interpretation is taken, yet it is regarding a specific blessing of the man and women are favoured over men with other specific blessings, thus it all balances out when looked at them in context:

      Imam Ibn Jarir al-Tabari (d. 310/923), who says:

      Allah, majestic be His praise, means by Men are caretakers of women that they are in charge of their womenfolk, in disciplining and guidance, respecting the rights that they [women] owe to Allah and to them. Because of that by which Allah has favored one over another means because of that through which Allah has favored men over their wives, since men must give them their marriage payment (mahr) and spend of their wealth to support them, and save them their pains and effort: that is the favoring of Allah Most Blessed and Exalted of men over women, and is why they have become caretakers of them who have authority over them regarding those of their affairs that Allah has given them charge of ... (Jami al-bayan an tawil ay al-Qur'an. 30 vols. Cairo n.d. Reprint (30 vols. in 15). Beirut: Dar al-Fikr, 1405/1984, 5.57).

      The Arabic grammarian and exegete Abu Hayyan al-Nahwi (d. 754/1353) says of the verse "Men are caretakers of women":

      Because Allah Most High has mentioned [in preceding verses] the matter of men and women acquiring their appointed share and their estate-division inheritance, He [here] apprises them that men are in charge of the interests of women. Caretakers (qawwamuna) is an intensive form [indicating something done much]. Because Allah has favored one over another means "because of Allah's favoring some men over others, this man having been given more sustenance (rizq) than that man, this man being better off than that one". And because they spend of their property means "upon women". The word ma [lit. what, translated above in the citation of al-Tabari as "because of that through which Allah has favored," and secondly, "because of what they spend"] is [rather] ma masdariyya or "the indefinite pronoun signifying a verbal noun" in both instances. [Thus meaning "because of Allah's favoring the one," and "because of their spending of their property,"] (Tafsir al-nahr al-madd min al-Bahr al-muhit. 2 vols. in 3. Beirut: Dar al-Janan and Mu'assasa al-Kutub al-Thaqafiyya, 1407/1987, 1.45758).


      Imam Fakhr al-Din al-Razi is another exegete who considers the relation of the verse "Men are caretakers of women" to other verses: Know that Allah Most High has said [two verses previously], ". . . and not to long for that with which Allah has preferred some of you above others" (Qur'an 4:32), a verse that we said was revealed because some women made remarks about Allah's favoring men over them in estate division inheritance [by certain male heirs receiving twice the share of their female counterparts]. So Allah mentions in this verse that He only favored men over women in estate division because men are the caretakers of women. For although both spouses enjoy the usufruct of each others person, Allah has ordered men to pay women their marriage portion, and to daily provide them with their support, so that the increase on one side is met with an increase on the other--and so it is as though there is no favoring at all. This clarifies the verses arrangement and order (Tafsir al-Fakhr al-Razi. 32 vols. Beirut 1401/1981. Reprint (32 vols. in 16). Beirut: Dar al-Fikr, 1405/1985, 10.90).
      ...................


      Also if the men fail to provide for the woman, then she is not obligated to obey him anymore:

      Finally, the more fiqh-oriented exegesis of al-Kaya al-Harrasi notes that while Allah has mentioned men's support of women in verses such as the one in surat al-Tahrim "Let him who possesses plenty spend of his plenty; and let him whose provision is straitened spend of what Allah has given him" (Qur'an 65:7), in this verse [Men are caretakers (qawwamuna) of women], He mentions the necessary cause (`illa) for this support, so scholars have naturally inferred from the two verses taken together that whenever a husband is unable to support his wife, he is no longer her caretaker: she is not obliged to remain at home [should he request it] in any school of jurisprudence, and according to the school of al-Shafi'i (Allah be well pleased with him), she is entitled to have the marriage annulled. He is no longer a caretaker or entitled to oblige her to remain at home because he has vitiated the objective of protecting her by marriage, for the aim of marriage is her security (Ahkam al-Qur'an. 4 vols. Cairo n.d. Reprint (4 vols. in 2). Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-Ilmiyya, 1405/1985, 2.449).

      In answer to your question then, our exegetes clarify how the meaning of qawwamuna or "caretakers" involves legal rights and obligations on the part of both men and women. It entails that women have the right to security, protection, and to be free from the thought of having to support themselves. Even if a woman has millions, she is entitled to be completely supported by her husband and can have her marriage annulled if he is unable to. And it entails that a man has charge of his wife's interests, supervision, and discipline. And Allah knows best.

      http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/qawamuna.htm

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Does Allah love women less? Are we second best to men?

        Jazakallah sister for your reply. It has helped me somewhat. I suppose Allah loves us in our own way for completing our role.I suppose the honour of being a mother is something to treasure.

        But in Islam can we ever be equal in marriage? Although monogmy is allowed in islam, its only there for men who cannot financially or mentally cope with more than one woman, not out of love and loyalty. Polygamy seems to be more encouaged, i understand that in times of need when men die in war and women need protection because there are more women than men,polygamy makes sense. But thats not how it is for us now in some parts of the world. For example, the idea of love and 2 souls becoming one that is existent in other cultures, isnt within Islam. Marriage is more of an obligation and just something we do and the idea of marrying for love isnt aknowledged.

        Also the way men use teachings of Islam to put us down, really hurts. For example 'when a women displeases her husband then the hoors in jannah say that we are only with them for a short while and then our husbands will be with them'. Its as though we are encouaged to be jealous even if we arent and men seem to take pleasure and pride in boasting about such things without any due consideration for their wives. Although that quote above is only for women who are treating their husbands terribly, men seem to see it as a way to control and manipulate us, and we're not all bad wives. It just feels as though nothing will ever be good enough for men and love isnt a reason to marry, marriage is just something we do to reproduce and keep society intact.

        The ayah on men being weak was on ayah 28 in surah an nisa from the The English translation of the Quran published by Darussalam; interpreted into english by Dr Muhammad Muhsin Khan and another.
        Ayah states, "Allah wishes to lighten (the burden) for you; and man was created weak (cannot be patient to leave sexual intercourse with women)."


        Jazakallah sister Anna for your reply. Perhaps Allah loves us for doing what our roles ask of us. But its the role itself that seems unfair and unloving. And the way men can use it to put us down.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Does Allah love women less? Are we second best to men?

          Originally posted by Plsreply View Post
          Salams, im not a troll here, but I dont feel like Allah loves me as much as He loves men. Men have many more privalleges over women, they have more rights. It is the women that have to please their husbands and be obedient to them.
          Men can take many wives and the term 'what his rights hands possess' is often in the Quran, so men can take many female slaves. It even states in Surah Nisa that
          'men were created weak (in that they cannot wait for sexual intercourse)' and that 'men were created to excel (over women).'

          Women on the other hand, must be obedient to their husbands, patient and loyal. We are expected to be subservient to men. Although hijab offers us freedom from being a sex symbol and other things may elevate our status. But in a marriage, it seems we are second best.
          I'm a muslim woman and I believe in Islam mainly because scientifically it is correct, it makes 'sense'.

          But I can't understand why women are second best to men.

          Could you please give some comments, because I really dont want to continue thinking in this manner and I hope that there is something I have missed, misunderstood, mis read because I would be really sad to believe muslim women arent as valued as men. It doesnt seem fair.

          And im only posting here because I want some guidance, not trolling, so seriously, please reply.
          You are protected hence you are a VALUABLE thing. Men are our guardians, you can see why...cuse women are precious, you should not see women as second best. Women are one of the things most loved by men so they are protected by them, this doesn't sound little in any way. Woman is not only expected to be obedient, she is also given rights over her husband, how can he protect her if she wouldn't listen? Also think at the fact that men are supposed to work and to support financially, and it's not limited to only this. Men also must fulfill women emotionally, intellectually, basically they must take care of her and everything for her welfare. Saying these things makes men appear "subservient".

          The conclusion is that both have rights and responsibilities and thus the relation is one of companionship, they complement each other, they are means of comfort and help for each other. Interdependence.
          أشهد أن لا إله إلاَّ الله و أشهد أن محمد رسول الله

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            #6
            Re: Does Allah love women less? Are we second best to men?

            Man in the quran means human beings, that is being women as well. Both men and women have strong needs. Many of my married friends complain how their husbands never can satisfy them because their needs are higher. so ignore the stupid rumours, they were only made by non muslims to create hate in deen.

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              #7
              Re: Does Allah love women less? Are we second best to men?

              Originally posted by Jzk View Post
              Jazakallah sister for your reply. It has helped me somewhat. I suppose Allah loves us in our own way for completing our role.I suppose the honour of being a mother is something to treasure.

              But in Islam can we ever be equal in marriage? Although monogmy is allowed in islam, its only there for men who cannot financially or mentally cope with more than one woman, not out of love and loyalty. Polygamy seems to be more encouaged, i understand that in times of need when men die in war and women need protection because there are more women than men,polygamy makes sense. But thats not how it is for us now in some parts of the world. For example, the idea of love and 2 souls becoming one that is existent in other cultures, isnt within Islam. Marriage is more of an obligation and just something we do and the idea of marrying for love isnt aknowledged.

              Also the way men use teachings of Islam to put us down, really hurts. For example 'when a women displeases her husband then the hoors in jannah say that we are only with them for a short while and then our husbands will be with them'. Its as though we are encouaged to be jealous even if we arent and men seem to take pleasure and pride in boasting about such things without any due consideration for their wives. Although that quote above is only for women who are treating their husbands terribly, men seem to see it as a way to control and manipulate us, and we're not all bad wives. It just feels as though nothing will ever be good enough for men and love isnt a reason to marry, marriage is just something we do to reproduce and keep society intact.

              The ayah on men being weak was on ayah 28 in surah an nisa from the The English translation of the Quran published by Darussalam; interpreted into english by Dr Muhammad Muhsin Khan and another.
              Ayah states, "Allah wishes to lighten (the burden) for you; and man was created weak (cannot be patient to leave sexual intercourse with women)."


              Jazakallah sister Anna for your reply. Perhaps Allah loves us for doing what our roles ask of us. But its the role itself that seems unfair and unloving. And the way men can use it to put us down.
              I must warn you the brackets are what the translator interperted. Man meaning human is weak, in all circumstances, not just sex. Im not sure why they put sexual intercourse allah swt hasnt mentioned that. Humans are weak in everthing! anger, impatient etc. women are more weak as they are the ones that sleep with men back. Both are the same allah swt hasnt mentioned otherwise.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Does Allah love women less? Are we second best to men?

                ‘O Messenger of God! Who among the people is the most worthy of my good companionship? The Prophet said: Your mother. The man said, ‘Then who?’ The Prophet said: Then your mother. The man further asked, ‘Then who?’ The Prophet said: Then your mother. The man asked again, ‘Then who?’ The Prophet said: Then your father. (Bukhari, Muslim)

                Sounds like the woman is being favoured here.

                There's so many examples, when Adam(pbuh) and Eve(pbuh) ate the forbidden fruit, the bible blames Eve(pbuh). What does the Quran do? It blames both, equally.

                Some links -

                http://www.islamswomen.com/articles/comparing_women.php
                http://www.islamswomen.com/articles/..._and_women.php
                A Fast Growing Islamic Search Website -

                www.Searching-Islam.com

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                  #9
                  Re: Does Allah love women less? Are we second best to men?

                  From studying Islam, it seems that the narrator of fatwas/articles/translators are all differing from each other and favoring men.

                  Allah says we have made the Qur'an complete and easy to understand [for all believers] - we have several different Qur'ans in several different languages which have different meanings. The kufr even argue that the Qur'an is changed. We have had disbelievers attacking Islam from its beginning and it's not hard to believe there are fake articles/fatwas/hadiths out there that are sexist, when Allah swt is not. He has favoured women many times. In fact men guardians of women, they are more powerful and able to protect. Allah has given men a huge responsibility, as well as women. Polygamy is not for lust of fufilling male desires (although a lot of "Sheihks" will argue and say it is) go research it in depth, there are logical Scholars who disagree with Polygamy being for lust as it's more of a responisbility than lust and again it's left an open option for the protection of women. Allah is very equal in terms of sexes, the hoor again is a mistranslation of scholars, there is no logic to it and all believers will be rewarded equally. Women are emphasized many times and a mother is 3 times before your father.

                  Please keep your mind open that we have attackers trying to get women to hate Islam because women are the foundations of the UMMAH. Without women there is no Islam, without Muslim mothers there to teach their children, there is no Islam. Men are ordered several times to help their wives in additon to working. But if you go on fatwa websites/lectures..it says the women should serve their husband like a maid? LoL. Where in Islam does it say that again? *SCRATCHES HEAD*

                  I advise you read the source and pray istihara. Ive done that and alhamdulilah allah has answered my questions in the past.

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                    #10
                    Re: Does Allah love women less? Are we second best to men?

                    Yeah life is so hard on woman.. Getting to stay home all day.. Raise their children.. Socialise with other ladies.. Get extra reward for praying at home.

                    It's a hard life for you sisters.
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                      #11
                      Re: Does Allah love women less? Are we second best to men?

                      Originally posted by -MA- View Post
                      Yeah life is so hard on woman.. Getting to stay home all day.. Raise their children.. Socialise with other ladies.. Get extra reward for praying at home.

                      It's a hard life for you sisters.
                      Life is tough for women and thats why jannah is beneath your mothers feet. sisters also work outside the home and support but do brothers bear children for 9 montsh give birth and raise children, cook and take care of the house, no.

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                        #12
                        Re: Does Allah love women less? Are we second best to men?

                        Originally posted by -MA- View Post
                        Yeah life is so hard on woman.. Getting to stay home all day.. Raise their children.. Socialise with other ladies.. Get extra reward for praying at home.

                        It's a hard life for you sisters.
                        ...

                        I suppose Hadhrat Fatima whose hands were bruised from her constant work enjoyed the things you stated above. There are many women who work hard in the house, do full time or part time paid jobs and also take care of the children. While there are some men who don't even bother to change their own childs nappy because that's 'a womans job'. (significance on some men because not all men are like that, perhaps you are one of them that's why ur so narrow minded and insensitive.)

                        if u don't have anything useful to say, don't say anything at all MA, because your comments aren't at all helpful.
                        Last edited by Grotbags; 09-11-11, 07:48 PM. Reason: calm down please

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Does Allah love women less? Are we second best to men?

                          Originally posted by Unggddd1 View Post
                          ...

                          I suppose Hadhrat Fatima whose hands were bruised from her constant work enjoyed the things you stated above. There are many women who work hard in the house, do full time or part time paid jobs and also take care of the children. While there are some men who don't even bother to change their own childs nappy because that's 'a womans job'. (significance on some men because not all men are like that, perhaps you are one of them that's why ur so narrow minded and insensitive.)

                          if u don't have anything useful to say, don't say anything at all MA, because your comments aren't at all helpful.
                          May Allah give you the best in dunya and akhira.

                          Try working 18 hours a a day and see which one you prefer.

                          Anyone who thinks woman are opressed in Islam, has been brainwashed by that they have seen around them in films, songs etc

                          This is a post from a sister on the forum.. Sums it up nicely..

                          Don't bother too much with ignorant, foolish remarks these so-called "liberated" women make. This is a logical result of the materialistic, hedonistic, Godless civilizational values that have gripped Western societies. Those poor women have been so brainwashed & oppressed into thinking they're worthless that they feel valued only if they're able to contribute materialistically and expose their bodies in front of strangers . This is nothing but a disguised form of exploitation of her body, degradation of her soul, and deprivation of her honor. Alhamdulillah, Islam elevates a woman from this sort of enslavement. Be proud to be a Muslim woman. Know that izzat & zillat comes from Allah alone .

                          Islam frees a wife from the burden to provide for the family. It is solely the husband's responsibility. In return, wife's main responsibility is to stay home and take care of the children. The primary field of women's endeavor is the home, sweet home. And this has to be stated without hesitation or apology. The Qur'an says: "And stay quietly in your homes."[Al-Ahzab, 33:33]. And the Prophet said: "The wife is responsible for taking care of the home of her husband, and she will be accountable for those given in her charge."[Bukhari, Muslim].

                          This is also the most rewarding job that anyone can think of. The Prophet assured the woman who stays home to take care of the children, that she would be with him in paradise. According to another hadith, during pregnancy and the entire period of nursing, the believing mother is like the soldier on active duty. If she dies, she gets the reward reserved for a martyr. Yet another hadith says to the women: "Take care of the home. That is your jihad." [Musnad Ahmad].

                          All of these clearly establish the basic division of labor between men and women according to Islam: men are responsible for the affairs outside the home and the women are responsible for taking care of the home. This division is not a relic of some dark past. It is the only basis on which a healthy society has ever been built and can be built today.
                          Last edited by Grotbags; 09-11-11, 07:48 PM. Reason: quoted post edited
                          SPREAD OF EVIL
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                          BOLLYWOOD

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                            #14
                            Re: Does Allah love women less? Are we second best to men?

                            Brother what it is the point in the argument about who has "got it better", i'm sure it is difficult and tiring to be working outside the house so many long hours, and personally I am really glad i wouldnt have to do that, alhamdulillah, but at the same time its not the case that women just sit there doing nothing. The contribution women make to a family should not be overlooked or belittled especially when it comes to the role of the mother (who also can work 18 hours btw, caring for young children, feeding newborn babies etc). There is no need for sarcasm about what the sister was asking. but the post u quoted is really good and i do agree with that :up: as muslim women we should have a positive attitude towards what our role is, but i have to say comments like ur previous post number 10, are not very helpful in that regard.
                            .: Rufaida :.
                            .:Fa Firroo Ila-llaah:.
                            http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...th_Silence.jpg
                            “People praise you for what they suppose is in you,
                            but you must blame your soul for what you know is in you.”
                            ~ Ibn Atallah

                            Ramadan Activities for Children
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                              #15
                              Re: Does Allah love women less? Are we second best to men?

                              Originally posted by .: Anna :. View Post
                              Brother what it is the point in the argument about who has "got it better", i'm sure it is difficult and tiring to be working outside the house so many long hours, and personally I am really glad i wouldnt have to do that, alhamdulillah, but at the same time its not the case that women just sit there doing nothing. The contribution women make to a family should not be overlooked or belittled especially when it comes to the role of the mother (who also can work 18 hours btw, caring for young children, feeding newborn babies etc). There is no need for sarcasm about what the sister was asking. but the post u quoted is really good and i do agree with that :up: as muslim women we should have a positive attitude towards what our role is, but i have to say comments like ur previous post number 10, are not very helpful in that regard.
                              Exactly agree with sister anna.

                              a woman works around the clock non-stop serving her family, children, husband, waking up at night changing kids nappys, feeding etc. Both have equal responsibilties but MA and brothers who think women have it easy, read the Quran on how hard it is for women, "and she has beared them with hardship and breastfed" Ill find the verse later. we bear children and raise them allah mentions the hardships we have. There are sisters who are divorced/single/widowed (may allah help them) who take on the role of a father and mother working outside and coming home and raising children, Ive never heard of men doing that.

                              also you forget the prophet pbuh was a husband, a leader, a prophet, a worker etc. and he came home and helped his wives and children at home as well....u may work 18 hrs, but women work 24..and honestly I think 18 hrs is a bit exageration on your part, MA. I'm not sure you seem to be battling an inner superiority complex with females. Please don't forget your mother is a female no need for the battle of the sexes here Allah created both equally. We are all Allahs creation he would not seperate males nor females.

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