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[Morose]

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Someone pls ask me something I actually hate this lecture

What's the lecture?

[islamuslim]

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What's the lecture?

Insight and inquiry: Questions to Change the World

It's pointless but mandatory for my program. They're actually thinking of removing this stupid course cus everyone's complaining about it.

[Morose]

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Insight and inquiry: Questions to Change the World

It's pointless but mandatory for my program. They're actually thinking of removing this stupid course cus everyone's complaining about it.

Fight for your rights!

No but lecture attendance isn't compulsory is it? If not just don't go.

[AmantuBillahi]

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[MENTION=63294]AmantuBillahi[/MENTION]
Well, there are many books written about this issue. People have access to many sources. Those that I have known are mostly written in Arabic or Persian. I am not sure where to find the English ones. Usually students listen to the lectures of Martyr Murtaza Mutahhari in Persian, some of his lectures are written in English books http://english.almaaref.org/essaydet...d=4511&cid=524

His Sira lecture is written too https://books.google.com/books?id=h8...page&q&f=false

Salaam

What I'm mostly interested in , is your descriptions and perceptions of Abu Bakr and Umar(raa). As you know , they both played huge roles in the beginning of the Prophets(saws) Dawah. From a Sunni perspective , you will not go through the Seerah except that you will love these figures , and aspire to emulate them.

But considering the standard opinion amongst ithna Ashari Shia , they are considered Fasiq or Kuffar ( God forbid ). So I am curious , do you guys believe that they were evil from the very beginning , or was it only after the demise of the Prophet(saws)? And regardless , do you just skip their stories , their battles , efforts , in-law marital relationships , etc?

It's a contradiction , hehe.

[islamuslim]

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Can I ask on SC?

Shut up you stalker.

Fight for your rights!

No but lecture attendance isn't compulsory is it? If not just don't go.

It is actually, but I still don't go all the time. I don't care about my grades in this course so I'm only trying to pass.

[Saif-Uddin]

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[MENTION=1571]admin[/MENTION] [MENTION=8041]moderators[/MENTION] [MENTION=15366]-Yassar[/MENTION] [MENTION=22732]Fais[/MENTION] [MENTION=25581].Hajar.[/MENTION] [MENTION=30214]Abu 'Abdullaah[/MENTION] [MENTION=38207]Jenicca[/MENTION] [MENTION=47843]samin62[/MENTION] [MENTION=76113]علي[/MENTION] [MENTION=87885]Meriadoc[/MENTION] [MENTION=105052]Darul Ilm[/MENTION] [MENTION=139630]device[/MENTION]

Why is anonymous/unspecified Genders allowed, especially since it aids Fitna mongering as some us don't know if where talking to a brother/sister?

Any one of the mods can answer,

[.khayriyyah.]

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Shut up you stalker.

Okay sister

[ALAS]

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Salaam
What I'm mostly interested in , is your descriptions and perceptions of Abu Bakr and Umar(raa). As you know , they both played huge roles in the beginning of the Prophets(saws) Dawah. From a Sunni perspective , you will not go through the Seerah except that you will love these figures , and aspire to emulate them.

Salaam Alaikum.

Sira of prophet is his method of living and his political, social and .... views. For sure the Sahabies you mentioned had some roles like many other sahabies. Shias do not highlight that as a huge role. What roles do you mean exactly ?

But considering the standard opinion amongst ithna Ashari Shia , they are considered Fasiq or Kuffar ( God forbid ). So I am curious , do you guys believe that they were evil from the very beginning , or was it only after the demise of the Prophet(saws)? And regardless , do you just skip their stories , their battles , efforts , in-law marital relationships , etc?

It's a contradiction , hehe.

What happened after the demise of Rasulullah pbuh, Shias consider it a coup ! Still true Shias believe in cooperating with others just to preserve Islam. For example Amaar participated in the wars against Sassanids at the time of caliphs, Salman accepted to be the governor at the time of Umar, Ali himself tried to provide Consultation for the caliphs and to advise them, it is recorded in the history that Umar would accept the consultory of Ali in some occasions.

With all respect I explain that, first of all true Shias never try to wound the feelings of Sunnies by calling the mentioned sahabies fasiq or so. What Shias say is the natural result of believing that Rasulullah appointed Ali and Abubakr and Umar did what they did.
As I said before by the word kafir Shias never mean that they are out of the fold of Islam, rather they mean kufr to the velayat of Ali, this is explicitly clarified in their hadithes.

[AmantuBillahi]

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Sira of prophet is his method of living and his political, social and .... views. For sure the Sahabies you mentioned had some roles like many other sahabies. Shias do not highlight that as a huge role. What roles do you mean exactly ?

Well by Seerah , I am not referring to just his Sunnah. What I mean is his biography(saws). The companions Abu Bakr and Umar were very important figures. Abu Bakr was the first free-adult male to accept Islaam and he took much of the backlash , along with the Prophet(saws) , for not only accepting Islam , but also becoming an open supporter and Da'ee to the faith. Many of the early Muslim converts which Sunnis call the "10 Best Men" converted at the hands of Abu Bakr.

Umar also converted in Makkah during the period of the immigration to abbasynia ( If I am not mistaken). The early Muslims started praying publicly within the Harem only after his conversion - and with the courage they acquired through his zealousness.

Both men had daughters married to the Prophet(saws). Both men fought in every single ghazwa , in which the Prophet attended - and they were considered the right hand men of the Prophet(saws).

Their sacrifices , dedications , and relations with the Prophet are well known and historically undeniable.

There's no way that one can hold the views of the Shia , and truthfully express the reality of the Seerah without heavy biases and the deflection of revelavant stories- lest they fall in to clear contradictions.

With all respect I explain that, first of all true Shias never try to wound the feelings of Sunnies by calling the mentioned sahabies fasiq or so. What Shias say is the natural result of believing that Rasulullah appointed Ali and Abubakr and Umar did what they did.
As I said before by the word kafir Shias never mean that they are out of the fold of Islam, rather they mean kufr to the velayat of Ali, this is explicitly clarified in their hadithes.

Two things.

1) Depending on who you speak to , it seems that the Kufr of the waliyah of Ali entails different levels of severity and repercussion.

It seems that the classical opinion , which was expressed by al-Mufid is that denying the Imamah of Ali makes you a Kaafir. Though I am aware of the various attempts to explain his well known positions which are usually diverted through the angle of; historical relevancy , or a further ta'weel of the word Kufr.

2) Regardless if Shia believe that they were Fasiq or Kuffar (God Forbid) , Shias believe that they will enter Jahannam.

I am on a phone and unable to provide sources , but I am sure this is well known and undisputed. There are ahadith which state that al Qa'im (The Mahdi) will exact punishments on Abu Bakr , Umar and A'isha - before they meet their fate in the hereafter ( God forbid ).

I know you yourself believe those ahadith are weak , but 'Shaykh al Islam' Mulla Baqir al Majlisi performs Tasheeh on those disputed ahadith. Therefore , the non-bias Orthodox position would be that those ahadith are authentic and they are the beliefs of your authoritative scholars.

---------------------------

Considering the biography of Muhammad(saws) , and the conclusive beliefs of the Shia regarding these two men - then it is easy to see why someone would be confused or distasteful after hearing the Shia position.

I know you are not preaching here or seeking to debate , but I would like to express - just in a friendly way - that I see this scenario as believing in a 'square circle'.

Though I am sure a Shia opponent can respond with "No , square circles are impossibilities. Are you claiming that power struggles never occurred in history!?!"

Of course they did , but why would Allah allow such a thing to happen in his finality of Prophethood , to the most dedicated companions - and why would your party be the losing party for 1400 years? Non Muslims do not consider you as Orthodox. The morally logical thing to do , is to question Allah at this point. If Islam is true , and if Shiism is correct , then why is this our reality ?

( Sorry if I sound like I'm preaching )

Allahummah salli ala Sayyiduna Muhammadan wa Ahlee wa sallam

[Indefinable]

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[MENTION=30214]Abu 'Abdullaah[/MENTION]

Are you on a 'thread - locking' rampage?

[~Umar~]

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[MENTION=120607]Kiro[/MENTION] Thoughts on the mods

[Linkdeutscher]

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@Abu 'Abdullaah

Are you on a 'thread - locking' rampage?

He's just finalizing it all.

[Kiro]

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[MENTION=120607]Kiro[/MENTION] Thoughts on the mods

I feel like the mods are sort of abandoning the forum, not enough activity from them but I also feel like they are banning a lot of good active members (though we don't know the reason of the ban)

[Indefinable]

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He's just finalizing it all.

Finalising what exactly...?

[Linkdeutscher]

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Finalising what exactly...?

The demise.