Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

[abc123d]

Re: Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

I'm not saying that taliban are not mujahideen, or anything.

But i just wanna say one thing. There is a BIG difference, between sucide bombing, and bravely going out to fight your enemies.

When your suicide bombing, u have nothing to fear, as ur life and the life of others is ALL in your own hands. You have a weapon, and as soon as someone decides to come close, all u have to do is blow urself up along with all the others, and job is done. This is not bravery, this is cowardice. There is nothing to fear, it's all in your own hands. It is also cowardice for the ones who sent someone to do this, as why are they not fighting themselves? Why are they sending one person to go kill himself? Why don't they all fight?

Whereas someone who personally decides to go out and fight the enemy, he doesn't control anything. He is going out to meet the unexpected. He has to fight hard to kill as many people as he can, he doesn't just get to 'press a button' and everything's over. Also his own life is not in his own control, he has no idea who's going to kill him and when, in fact it's not even a guarantee he will die, maybe Allah will save him. and he just knows he has to kill as many people as he can, to help his army gain victory. This is bravery.

There is a big difference between going out knowing you will most likely die, and going out to personally kill yourself

[Umm_Hanzalah]

Re: Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

According to Madkhalis, defending yourself is suicide, since the enemy has a couple more bullets than you.

You must invite the rapists and murderers for a cup of tea, how about inviting Iblees whilst you're at it. Now that's real jihad (according to them)

[Yunus aua]

Re: Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

watch this first:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01gFuMN2fFc

look who is doing that!

and check this outhttp://whitewraithe.wordpress.com/tag/blackwater/

Some years back, didn't they catch a few , i think british, black ops guys dressed up as "taliban" killing civilians. They captured them and arrested them put them in jail.
Britians response was to send in a battalion to break them out of the prison.
I think it was either in Iraq or Afghanistan. Pretty sure it was Iraq though

[Umm_Hanzalah]

Re: Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

I'm not saying that taliban are not mujahideen, or anything.

But i just wanna say one thing. There is a BIG difference, between sucide bombing, and bravely going out to fight your enemies.

When your suicide bombing, u have nothing to fear, as ur life and the life of others is ALL in your own hands. You have a weapon, and as soon as someone decides to come close, all u have to do is blow urself up along with all the others, and job is done. This is not bravery, this is cowardice. There is nothing to fear, it's all in your own hands. It is also cowardice for the ones who sent someone to do this, as why are they not fighting themselves? Why are they sending one person to go kill himself? Why don't they all fight?

Whereas someone who personally decides to go out and fight the enemy, he doesn't control anything. He is going out to meet the unexpected. He has to fight hard to kill as many people as he can, he doesn't just get to 'press a button' and everything's over. Also his own life is not in his own control, he has no idea who's going to kill him and when, in fact it's not even a guarantee he will die, maybe Allah will save him. and he just knows he has to kill as many people as he can, to help his army gain victory. This is bravery.

There is a big difference between going out knowing you will most likely die, and going out to personally kill yourself

A few things.

How do you know that this is not a strategy of war?

How can you draw the conclusion that only one person is fighting?

Maybe that one person going is better in achieving a specific goal whereby everyone going as if it's a battle with swords in an open field with both sides charging against one another wouldn't be suited in that situation.

Your life is never in your control. It is always in Allah's hands. Even in suicide, chances are you can survive.

Suicide is when someone is depressed or has given up hope in Allah or in His mercy.

What's fear got to do with anything?

There are people who are more knowledgeable in the field or who know their situation better than outsiders who just parrot mainstream ideas and media.

Just a few logical points to ponder on, not proposing anything. Suicide is always haram.

[anonymous321]

Re: Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

Just curious, are you happy with some suicide bomber coming in and saying "Don't worry, today I'm going to make you and your beloved little girl and boy shahid today, and I might kill a kafir or two"

Sadly it seems like the Muslim blood has become cheap nowadays. I find it absolutely disgusting that some people are justifying the killings of innocent Muslims in the name of the so called "martyrdom operations."

Maybe they need to remember why Allah restrained the Prophet of Allah from fighting the mushrikeen at Hudaybiyyah.

"And it is He who withheld their hands from you and your hands from them within [the area of] Makkah after He caused you to overcome them. And ever is Allah of what you do, Seeing."

"They are the ones who disbelieved and obstructed you from al-Masjid al-Haram while the offering was prevented from reaching its place of sacrifice. And if not for believing men and believing women whom you did not know - that you might trample them and there would befall you because of them dishonor without [your] knowledge - [you would have been permitted to enter Makkah]. [This was so] that Allah might admit to His mercy whom He willed. If they had been apart [from them], We would have punished those who disbelieved among them with painful punishment"

That was without them knowing, so how about the guy with the C4 attached on his body who enters a building or a market while knowing it will be full of muslims and civilians just to target a soldier who is off duty?

[Hadid]

Re: Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

Suicide is when someone is depressed or has given up hope in Allah or in His mercy.

Is this the islamic definition of suicide?

[Allah's_Servant]

Re: Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

Sadly it seems like the Muslim blood has become cheap nowadays. I find it absolutely disgusting that some people are justifying the killings of innocent Muslims in the name of the so called "martyrdom operations."

Maybe they need to remember why Allah restrained the Prophet of Allah from fighting the mushrikeen at Hudaybiyyah.

"And it is He who withheld their hands from you and your hands from them within [the area of] Makkah after He caused you to overcome them. And ever is Allah of what you do, Seeing."

"They are the ones who disbelieved and obstructed you from al-Masjid al-Haram while the offering was prevented from reaching its place of sacrifice. And if not for believing men and believing women whom you did not know - that you might trample them and there would befall you because of them dishonor without [your] knowledge - [you would have been permitted to enter Makkah]. [This was so] that Allah might admit to His mercy whom He willed. If they had been apart [from them], We would have punished those who disbelieved among them with painful punishment"

That was without them knowing, so how about the guy with the C4 attached on his body who enters a building or a market while knowing it will be full of muslims and civilians just to target a soldier who is off duty?

Again, If the women and children are killed unintentionally and a woman is killed unintentionally how is that the Mujahideed's fault?

You completely skipped all other verses yes and picked the only one that suited you yes?

Allah has promised you much booty that you will take [in the future] and has hastened for you this [victory] and withheld the hands of people from you - that it may be a sign for the believers and [that] He may guide you to a straight path.

When those who disbelieved had put into their hearts chauvinism - the chauvinism of the time of ignorance. But Allah sent down His tranquillity upon His Messenger and upon the believers and imposed upon them the word of righteousness, and they were more deserving of it and worthy of it. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

Certainly has Allah showed to His Messenger the vision in truth. You will surely enter al-Masjid al-Haram, if Allah wills, in safety, with your heads shaved and [hair] shortened, not fearing [anyone]. He knew what you did not know and has arranged before that a conquest near [at hand].

[abc123d]

Re: Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

Is this the islamic definition of suicide?

agreed, suicide is suicide. If someone intentionally kills himself, it's suicide.

"And do not kill yourselves, surely God is most Merciful to you."
— Qur'an, Sura 4 (An-Nisa), ayat 29

Running into the enemy lines, killing many enemies, but in the process getting killed. Is NOT killing yourself. Someone else kills you. Blowing yourself up, however, IS killing yourself. This is common sense. We can bring intentions into it, but fact is, the suicide bomber, IS killing himself, his death is in his own hands. And Qur'an says, don't kill yourselves.

Have we all forgotten about this hadith:

Hadith No.4: "A hypocrite fighting alongwith Rasulullah (saw) was very brave in the fight but when he was too much hurt, he killed himself with his own sword to avoid pain. Upon this, Rasulullah (saw) informed all that this person goes to hell. He said that there are some who do a few things to qualify for heaven, but they actually qualify for nothing except hell. Similarly, there are some whom everyone considers as going to hell, but they are actually going to heaven." (Muslim).

^ isn't suicide bombing basically the same? u just kill yourself because ur not brave enough to fight man to man with ur enemies, and u cant handle the pain of them overcoming u, so u just decide to blow urself up because there is nothing else to do. U would rather u kill urself, then someone else painfully kills u. So basically ur trying to avoid pain. If a man who killed himslef out of Pain, for Fighting in the path of allah went to Hell, then how can we guarantee that someone who intentionally suicide bombs will not have the same fate? I don't even know why someone would take that risk. Suicide means eternal punishment.

Also it's riduclous to say 'How is it the mujahideen's fault if innocent muslims were killed unintentionally'. What do u expect to happen when ur going to blow urself up? Dont u think people will die, including muslims? How can someone just decide to blow himself up. What if he could have helped the muslims more by staying alive?

Also the idea that innocent muslmis dying is 'Ok' because they become 'martyrs' is absolutely disturbing. Should i kill other muslims, and say 'i only did it so he would become a martyr' ?

And the idea of 'Martyrdom operations' still puzzles me. The purpose of martyrdom is someone who dies fighting for Allah. The good thing is that he is 'fighting' for Allah, and bringing victory to the muslims. But someone who just decides to kill himself, and maybe a few others die alongside him how is he 'fighting' for Allah? rather he just gave away his life which could have been better used in the future to fight for the sake of Allah.

[Serada]

Re: Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

If you attack a much larger force, even face on is not there a good chance you will just be captured instead of killed. A mission of going behind enemy lines to attack or destroy a military objective might be extremely dangerous and low chances of survival, but again could you not be captured or actually survive and get back home. That is not really suicide, no matter how dangerous. God might smile on your actions and just have you captured or just wounded, or even escape back to your own line. And if you do die, it is the enemy soldier that kills you.

But in suicide bombing, it is named because you do commit suicide as you do the bombing. There is no chance you will live through it. It is you killing yourself by pulling the trigger on the bomb (or whatever causes the bomb to explode). You are doing it to yourself, and unless the bomb does not explode, you die because you purposely blew yourself up. That is suicide.

I don't see how you can compare the two.

[abc123d]

Re: Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

If you attack a much larger force, even face on is not there a good chance you will just be captured instead of killed. A mission of going behind enemy lines to attack or destroy a military objective might be extremely dangerous and low chances of survival, but again could you not be captured or actually survive and get back home. That is not really suicide, no matter how dangerous. God might smile on your actions and just have you captured or just wounded, or even escape back to your own line. And if you do die, it is the enemy soldier that kills you.

But in suicide bombing, it is named because you do commit suicide as you do the bombing. There is no chance you will live through it. It is you killing yourself by pulling the trigger on the bomb (or whatever causes the bomb to explode). You are doing it to yourself, and unless the bomb does not explode, you die because you purposely blew yourself up. That is suicide.

I don't see how you can compare the two.

Exactly. There is no comparison between the two. There is a difference between doing something highly dangerous, and personally killing yourself. For example, if someone dies by overspeeding. He was doing something really dangerous with a high-risk of death, but did he commit suicide? No. Similarly, when someone goes and fights the enemy lines, he is doing something brave and dangerous, but it's not suicide.

Suicide bombing by definition, is suicide. As ur death is intentionally done by your own hands.

Also for those saying it's a 'war strategy'.

Imagine this:

A muslim is a prisoner to the enemy and the enemy is torturing him. The enemy want the muslims to ransom this prisoner by giving up some of the muslim land. In this situation, would it be ok for the muslim prisoner to kill himself? as a strategy of war? To help the muslims keep the land? Wouldn't it still be suicide?

Strategy of war can be many things. Imagine if the non-muslims said ''If u drink wine and eat pork, we won't invade your country''. In this case, as a strategy of war, would it be ok to commit haram of drinking wine and eating pork?

[brice]

Re: Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

I don't really expect my view on this subject to match up with anyone else's here, but...

To my thinking if there's even a possibility of ONE innocent person dying it's not worth it.
There's always a possibility.
I see every life as equal to the totality of every life which ever lived.

I'd kill for nothing. I'd die for a lot of things.

[anonymous321]

Re: Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

Again, If the women and children are killed unintentionally and a woman is killed unintentionally how is that the Mujahideed's fault?

You completely skipped all other verses yes and picked the only one that suited you yes?

Allah has promised you much booty that you will take [in the future] and has hastened for you this [victory] and withheld the hands of people from you - that it may be a sign for the believers and [that] He may guide you to a straight path.

When those who disbelieved had put into their hearts chauvinism - the chauvinism of the time of ignorance. But Allah sent down His tranquillity upon His Messenger and upon the believers and imposed upon them the word of righteousness, and they were more deserving of it and worthy of it. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.

Certainly has Allah showed to His Messenger the vision in truth. You will surely enter al-Masjid al-Haram, if Allah wills, in safety, with your heads shaved and [hair] shortened, not fearing [anyone]. He knew what you did not know and has arranged before that a conquest near [at hand].

What do you mean unintentionally? If I didnt know is one thing but when I clearly know that today when I blow myself up at the mall there will be muslim and civilian casualties, then the blame is on me. No ifs or buts.

The ayats I quoted were relevant the point I was trying to make, but what point are you trying to make with quoting the next verses?

[Mustafa Mahmud]

Re: Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

actually going into war with a probability of loosing is also considered suicide as per all the logic u have provided.

but Muhammad(sws) and sahabas have always won wars even though they were outnumbered....

so all ur logic is already a failure where u talk about 'killing urself'

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

Really? Where? Where did I say that? I made a distinction between the kuffar killing a Muslim and a Muslim killing a Muslim. If I charge into 100 kuffar knowing they will kill me, I am not killing myself, they are killing me.

If I blow myself up, I'm killing myself.

There is the difference.

[علي]

Re: Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

A few things.

How do you know that this is not a strategy of war?

How can you draw the conclusion that only one person is fighting?

:jkk:

The interesting thing is that those who forbid it quote Bin Uthaymeen rahimahullah, but at the same time "Salafis" and "Madkhalis" in general follow Bin Baaz as well, and he clearly permitted it as a strategy in war. All have their evidence.

Of course it's a no brainer not to kill Muslims in the process, and I do not believe the Taaliban ever do this purposely, despite some of the strawmen many here have constructed to appeal to emotions when logic failed.

[Mustafa Mahmud]

Re: Taliban Extremism Sickening Tatics

According to Madkhalis, defending yourself is suicide, since the enemy has a couple more bullets than you.

You must invite the rapists and murderers for a cup of tea, how about inviting Iblees whilst you're at it. Now that's real jihad (according to them)

I have nothing to do with them. SubhanAllah, I cant be against self-exploding and taking innocent men, women and children without being like Madkhalee? There were cowards and munafiqs before us. But don't confuse their statements with those who call for the restraint of the Messenger of Allah sallahualayhiwasalam and those who command justice from the people.


Killing oneself is injustice. Taking innocent people is injustice on top of injustice