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Riba (Interest - Usury) & Islam

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  • Simply_Logical
    replied
    Originally posted by imran1976 View Post

    It applied to wheat, barley, dates because they were used as medium of exchange (money) in those days. --- so dates, wheat, barley = money (in those days).----there can't be unequal exchange of these even today. --

    but you can do unequal exchange of other commodities, as they didn't served as money, read the following from Muwatta Imam Maalik:

    Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi that Abdullah ibn Umar bought a female riding-camel for four camels and he guaranteed to give them in full to the buyer at ar-Rabadha.


    Yahya related to me from Malik from Salih ibn Kaysan from Hasan ibn Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib that ibn Abi Talib sold one of his camels called Usayfir for 20 camels to be delivered later.
    interesting jazakAllah khayran

    Leave a comment:


  • imran1976
    replied
    Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

    Well shaykh Imran hosein in the talk I'm listening to said riba doesn't just apply to money as it applied to dates, wheat, barley etc too as in madinah that was also used within transactions as a replacement for money
    tbh imo it's still riba as these banks are in it for the money and not helping you because they genuinely want to help anyways we'll have to agree to disagree bhai
    It applied to wheat, barley, dates because they were used as medium of exchange (money) in those days. --- so dates, wheat, barley = money (in those days).----there can't be unequal exchange of these even today. --

    but you can do unequal exchange of other commodities, as they didn't served as money, read the following from Muwatta Imam Maalik:

    Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi that Abdullah ibn Umar bought a female riding-camel for four camels and he guaranteed to give them in full to the buyer at ar-Rabadha.


    Yahya related to me from Malik from Salih ibn Kaysan from Hasan ibn Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib that ibn Abi Talib sold one of his camels called Usayfir for 20 camels to be delivered later.
    Last edited by imran1976; 16-06-21, 07:35 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Simply_Logical
    replied
    Originally posted by imran1976 View Post

    because that's a business activity (sales transaction) -- transaction of sale & purchase is effected on an identified commodity.

    money generating money directly is riba -- money generating money via business/services is not riba.

    say you purchased a car worth 3 millions on installment to be paid over a period of three years -- at the end of the term you fell short by 0.5 million --

    the bank/company comes with a offer to pay 0.7 million (0.5+0.2) over a period of two years. ---- This is riba'. -- now this is no more a business transaction, this has become a loan transaction!
    Well shaykh Imran hosein in the talk I'm listening to said riba doesn't just apply to money as it applied to dates, wheat, barley etc too as in madinah that was also used within transactions as a replacement for money
    tbh imo it's still riba as these banks are in it for the money and not helping you because they genuinely want to help anyways we'll have to agree to disagree bhai

    Leave a comment:


  • imran1976
    replied
    Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

    Can you explain how is that not riba?
    because that's a business activity (sales transaction) -- transaction of sale & purchase is effected on an identified commodity.

    money generating money directly is riba -- money generating money via business/services is not riba.

    say you purchased a car worth 3 millions on installment to be paid over a period of three years -- at the end of the term you fell short by 0.5 million --

    the bank/company comes with a offer to pay 0.7 million (0.5+0.2) over a period of two years. ---- This is riba'. -- now this is no more a business transaction, this has become a loan transaction!

    Leave a comment:


  • Simply_Logical
    replied
    Originally posted by notEVOLVED
    That's not what usually happens. Bank first makes agreement with the customer to sell him the car for 1.5 million. After the agreement is made, the bank then buys the car for 1 million. This is wrong because bank sells something that it does not possess at the time of making the contract.
    Exactly

    Car finance is essentially the same thing,
    Lend money then make money on the money they lend, i.e making money from money

    Leave a comment:


  • Simply_Logical
    replied
    Originally posted by imran1976
    Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

    Yea but rewording words from interest to profit or rent just to try and find a loophole isn't right
    It depends on terms and conditions offered by the bank --- say a bank is the owner of the car, purchased for 1 million , the bank offers the car for 1.5 million to be paid over a period of five years.

    there's nothing wrong with this as it's a business transaction ---- exchanging money for money in excess is riba , exchanging money for commodity in excess is profit. ----- " ALLAH has permitted sales but prohibited riba".
    Can you explain how is that not riba?

    Leave a comment:


  • notEVOLVED
    replied
    That's not what usually happens. Bank first makes agreement with the customer to sell him the car for 1.5 million. After the agreement is made, the bank then buys the car for 1 million. This is wrong because bank sells something that it does not possess at the time of making the contract.

    Leave a comment:


  • imran1976
    replied
    Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

    Yea but rewording words from interest to profit or rent just to try and find a loophole isn't right
    It depends on terms and conditions offered by the bank --- say a bank is the owner of the car, purchased for 1 million , the bank offers the car for 1.5 million to be paid over a period of five years.

    there's nothing wrong with this as it's a business transaction ---- exchanging money for money in excess is riba , exchanging money for commodity in excess is profit. ----- " ALLAH has permitted sales but prohibited riba".

    Leave a comment:


  • ອາໄສຢູ່ ຣາຮາມ
    replied
    Capitalism is no less an evil than communism

    Leave a comment:


  • Muhammed_Abdullah
    replied
    Walaykumus salam warahmatullahi wabarakatuh.

    A lot of Muslims here in Canada pay riba for their houses. May Allah (SWT) guide them.

    Leave a comment:


  • ThisIsJannah
    replied
    Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post
    I'm watching this talk and shaykh Imran hosein said the last revelation was about riba subhanAllah at 6:01

    https://youtu.be/rRAcU48y04k
    It just shows importance of it. Riba makes rich more richer and poor more poorer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Simply_Logical
    replied
    I'm watching this talk and shaykh Imran hosein said the last revelation was about riba subhanAllah at 6:01

    https://youtu.be/rRAcU48y04k

    Leave a comment:


  • Simply_Logical
    replied
    Originally posted by Creamcake
    Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

    I actually don't know any one who does these kamaeethus except for pakistanis tbh
    I dont know if its just pakistanis because ive heard of similar things in other ethnicities/countries too. Also i know people who borrowed money from their family/inlaws for the house and then repaid them. Which is a good idea to buy a house. I personally dont think id wanna borrow from anyone, i feel like it may be better to rent if one doesnt have the money themselves, but maybe after marriage and kids ones perspective changes.
    Masha'Allah Alhamdulillah Allahumma Bareek it's good that you're content with living in rent

    I was watching a vid about ribs on YouTube and a comment really stuck with me, it said something along the lines of people think owning a house means being successful and I think that's true we've got it twisted tbh

    Leave a comment:


  • Creamcake
    replied
    Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

    I actually don't know any one who does these kamaeethus except for pakistanis tbh
    I dont know if its just pakistanis because ive heard of similar things in other ethnicities/countries too. Also i know people who borrowed money from their family/inlaws for the house and then repaid them. Which is a good idea to buy a house. I personally dont think id wanna borrow from anyone, i feel like it may be better to rent if one doesnt have the money themselves, but maybe after marriage and kids ones perspective changes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Simply_Logical
    replied
    Originally posted by imran1976
    Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

    I actually don't know any one who does these kamaeethus except for pakistanis tbh
    I don't remember where, but I have read that it's done in some countries of Africa as well.
    Really? Didnt know that

    Where in Africa, do you know?

    Leave a comment:

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