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  • Do people suffer for the sins of others?

    I'm not that well educated on Islam yet but was wondering is there anything in Islam which proves that innocent people suffer because of the sins of others?

    For example when you see countries like USA where so many bad things happen to the country every day and innocent people get caught up in it and then you remember its because whilst theres a lot of innocent people there are equally so many massive sinners who cheat, kill, steal, do the most haram of things. the country has some of the most debaucherous people. So are innocents suffering because of them?

    Likewise I've seen with families, if some of the siblings are massive sinners, committing zina and what not, the whole family ends up suffering by going through something painful. Are they suffering because of the sins of others? Do you think if a whole family stays on the right path, Inshallah good will come to the family. of course we will always be tested but is there most chances of the family getting through the test if everyone stayed on the right path?

    thanks

  • #2
    Originally posted by reached View Post
    I'm not that well educated on Islam yet but was wondering is there anything in Islam which proves that innocent people suffer because of the sins of others?

    For example when you see countries like USA where so many bad things happen to the country every day and innocent people get caught up in it and then you remember its because whilst theres a lot of innocent people there are equally so many massive sinners who cheat, kill, steal, do the most haram of things. the country has some of the most debaucherous people. So are innocents suffering because of them?

    Likewise I've seen with families, if some of the siblings are massive sinners, committing zina and what not, the whole family ends up suffering by going through something painful. Are they suffering because of the sins of others? Do you think if a whole family stays on the right path, Inshallah good will come to the family. of course we will always be tested but is there most chances of the family getting through the test if everyone stayed on the right path?

    thanks
    People answer for their own sins. Allah does not punish someone for what another does.

    In regards to your family example, the sinner in the family gets punished for sinning, while the family might be getting tested in their faith and patience. It is also possible that the family is getting punished, not for the sins of their family member, but for not doing their best in trying to advise the sinner and prevent them from sinning.

    Comment


    • #3
      salam alaykum wa rahmat allah

      the world we live in is a test and the result of this test will be on judgment day therefore whatever happens to anyone is a part of this test being a good person or an innocent person dosent exclude you from getting tested with hardships calamities ect.

      i hope this makes it clear for you and if it dosent feel free to point out what is difficult to understand

      and allah knows best

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Abisali View Post

        People answer for their own sins. Allah does not punish someone for what another does.

        In regards to your family example, the sinner in the family gets punished for sinning, while the family might be getting tested in their faith and patience. It is also possible that the family is getting punished, not for the sins of their family member, but for not doing their best in trying to advise the sinner and prevent them from sinning.
        ah that makes a lot more sense

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hamza1416 View Post
          salam alaykum wa rahmat allah

          the world we live in is a test and the result of this test will be on judgment day therefore whatever happens to anyone is a part of this test being a good person or an innocent person dosent exclude you from getting tested with hardships calamities ect.

          i hope this makes it clear for you and if it dosent feel free to point out what is difficult to understand

          and allah knows best
          wa alaikum asalaam

          yes it makes it clearer, thank you

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by reached View Post
            I'm not that well educated on Islam yet but was wondering is there anything in Islam which proves that innocent people suffer because of the sins of others?

            For example when you see countries like USA where so many bad things happen to the country every day and innocent people get caught up in it and then you remember its because whilst theres a lot of innocent people there are equally so many massive sinners who cheat, kill, steal, do the most haram of things. the country has some of the most debaucherous people. So are innocents suffering because of them?

            Likewise I've seen with families, if some of the siblings are massive sinners, committing zina and what not, the whole family ends up suffering by going through something painful. Are they suffering because of the sins of others? Do you think if a whole family stays on the right path, Inshallah good will come to the family. of course we will always be tested but is there most chances of the family getting through the test if everyone stayed on the right path?

            thanks

            Assalaamu 'alaikum warahmatullaah.
            Pasted from an app, so apologies for the formatting, but:




            Al-Anfal 8:25

            (English - Tafsir ibn kathir)
            Warning against an encompassing Fitnah

            وَاتَّقُواْ فِتْنَةً لاَّ تُصِيبَنَّ الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ مِنكُمْ خَأصَّةً وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ شَدِيدُ الْعِقَابِ
            And fear the Fitnah (affliction and trial) which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong, and know that Allah is severe in punishment.




            Allah warns His believing servants of a Fitnah, trial and test, that encompasses the wicked and those around them. Therefore, such Fitnah will not be restricted to the sinners and evildoers. Rather, it will reach the others if the sins are not stopped and prevented.

            Imam Ahmad recorded that Mutarrif said,

            "We asked Az-Zubayr, `O Abu Abdullah! What brought you here (for the battle of Al-Jamal)! You abandoned the Khalifah who was assassinated (Uthman, may Allah be pleased with him) and then came asking for revenge for his blood!'

            He said, `We recited at the time of the Messenger of Allah, and Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman,

            وَاتَّقُواْ فِتْنَةً لاَّ تُصِيبَنَّ الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ مِنكُمْ خَأصَّةً


            And fear the Fitnah (affliction and trial) which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong,

            We did not think that this Ayah was about us too, until it reached us as it did."'

            Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn Abbas said that;

            the Ayah,
            وَاتَّقُواْ فِتْنَةً لاَّ تُصِيبَنَّ الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ مِنكُمْ خَأصَّةً
            (And fear the Fitnah (affliction and trial) which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong), refers to the Companions of the Prophet in particular.

            In another narration from Ibn Abbas, he said,

            "Allah commanded the believers to stop evil from flourishing among them, so that Allah does not encompass them all in the torment (Fitnah)."

            This, indeed, is a very good explanation, prompting Mujahid to comment about Allah's statement,
            وَاتَّقُواْ فِتْنَةً لاَّ تُصِيبَنَّ الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ مِنكُمْ خَأصَّةً
            (And fear the Fitnah (affliction and trial) which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong),

            "Is for you too!"

            Several said similarly, such as Ad-Dahhak and Yazid bin Abi Habib and several others.

            Ibn Mas`ud said,

            "There is none among you but there is something that represents a Fitnah for him, for Allah said,

            إِنَّمَأ أَمْوَلُكُمْ وَأَوْلَـدُكُمْ فِتْنَةٌ

            Your wealth and your children are only a trial (Fitnah)... (64:15)

            Therefore, when you seek refuge, seek it with Allah from the Fitnah that causes misguidance."

            Ibn Jarir collected this Hadith.

            The view that the warning in this Ayah addresses the Companions and all others is true, even though the speech in the Ayah was directed at the Companions.

            There are Hadiths that warn against Fitnah in general, thus providing the correctness of this explanation. Similarly there will be a separate book in which this subject will be discussed, Allah willing, as also is the case with the Imams, there being a number of writings about this.

            Of the most precise things that have been mentioned under this topic, is what was recorded by Imam Ahmad from Hudhayfah bin Al-Yaman that the Messenger of Allah said,

            وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ لَتَأْمُرُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَلَتَنْهَوُنَّ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ أَوْ لَيُوشِكَنَّ اللهُ أَنْ يَبْعَثَ عَلَيْكُمْ عِقَابًا مِنْ عِنْدِهِ ثُمَّ لَتَدْعُنَّهُ فَلَا يَسْتَجِيبُ لَكُم

            By He in Whose Hand is my soul! You will enjoin righteousness and forbid evil, or Allah will send a punishment upon you from Him; you will supplicate then to Him, but He will not answer your supplication.

            Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Ar-Riqad said,

            "I heard Hudhayfah saying,

            `A person used to utter one word during the time of the Messenger of Allah and become a hypocrite on account of it. I now hear such words from one of you four times in the same sitting. Surely, you will enjoin good, forbid evil and encourage each other to do good or Allah will surround you all with torment, or make the wicked among you become your leaders. The righteous among you will then supplicate, but their supplication will not be accepted."'

            Imam Ahmad recorded that An-Nu`man bin Bashir said that the Prophet gave a speech in which he said, while pointing to his ears with two of his fingers,

            مَثَلُ الْقَايِمِ عَلَى حُدُودِ اللهِ وَالْوَاقِعِ فِيهَا وَالْمُدَاهِنِ فِيهَا كَمَثَلِ قَوْمٍ رَكِبُوا سَفِينَةً فَأَصَابَ بَعْضُهُمْ أَسْفَلَهَا وَأَوْعَرَهَا وَشَرَّهَا وَأَصَابَ بَعْضُهُمْ أَعْلَهَا فَكَانَ الَّذِينَ فِي أَسْفَلِهَا إِذَا اسْتَقَوُا الْمَاءَ مَرُّوا عَلَى مَنْ فَوقَهُمْ فَأذُوْهُمْ فَقَالُوا لَوْ خَرَقْنَا فِي نَصِيبِنَا خَرْقًا فَاسْتَقَيْنَا مِنْهُ وَلَمْ نُوْذِ مَنْ فَوْقَنَا فَإِنْ تَرَكُوهُمْ وَأَمْرَهُمْ هَلَكُوا جَمِيعًا وَإِنْ أَخَذُوا عَلَى أَيْدِيهِمْ نَجَوْا جَمِيعًا

            The parable of the person abiding by Allah's order and restrictions in comparison to those who violate them, or sit idle while they are being violated, is that of those who drew lots for their seats in a boat. Some of them got seats in the lower part, which is the most rough and worst part, and the others in the upper. When the former needed water, they had to go up to bring water and that troubled the others, so they said, `Let us make a hole in our share of the ship and get water, saving those who are above us from troubling them, so, if the people in the upper part let the others do what they suggested, all the people of the ship would be destroyed, but if they prevented them, both parties would be safe.

            This was recorded by Al-Bukhari, but not Muslim, in the Book of Partnerships and the Book of Witnesses.

            It was also recorded by At-Tirmidhi through a different route of narration.

            Imam Ahmad recorded that Umm Salamah, the Prophet's wife, said,

            "I heard the Messenger of Allah saying,

            إِذَا ظَهَرَتِ الْمَعَاصِي فِي أُمَّتِي عَمَّهُمُ اللهُ بِعَذَابٍ مِنْ عِنْدِه

            If sins become apparent in my Ummah, Allah will surround them with punishment from Him.

            I said, `O Allah's Messenger! Will they have righteous people among them then?'

            He said,
            بَلَى
            Yes.

            I asked, `What will happen to them?'

            He said,

            يُصِيبُهُمْ مَا أَصَابَ النَّاسَ ثُمَّ يَصِيرُونَ إِلَى مَغْفِرَةٍ مِنَ اللهِ وَرِضْوَان

            They will be stricken as the people, but they will end up with Allah's forgiveness and pleasure."

            Imam Ahmad recorded that Jarir said that the Messenger of Allah said,

            مَا مِنْ قَوْمٍ يُعْمَلُ فِيهِمْ بِالْمَعَاصِي هُمْ أَعَزُّ وَأَكْثَرُ مِمَّنْ يَعْمَلُونَ ثُمَّ لَمْ يُغَيِّرُوهُ إِلاَّ عَمَّهُمُ اللهُ بِعِقَاب

            Every people among whom sins are being committed, while they are mightier and more numerous than those who do wrong, yet they did nothing to stop them, then Allah will surround them all with punishment.

            Ibn Majah collected this Hadith

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            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Fakhri-bin-Ali View Post


              Assalaamu 'alaikum warahmatullaah.
              Pasted from an app, so apologies for the formatting, but:




              Al-Anfal 8:25

              (English - Tafsir ibn kathir)
              Warning against an encompassing Fitnah

              وَاتَّقُواْ فِتْنَةً لاَّ تُصِيبَنَّ الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ مِنكُمْ خَأصَّةً وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ شَدِيدُ الْعِقَابِ
              And fear the Fitnah (affliction and trial) which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong, and know that Allah is severe in punishment.




              Allah warns His believing servants of a Fitnah, trial and test, that encompasses the wicked and those around them. Therefore, such Fitnah will not be restricted to the sinners and evildoers. Rather, it will reach the others if the sins are not stopped and prevented.

              Imam Ahmad recorded that Mutarrif said,

              "We asked Az-Zubayr, `O Abu Abdullah! What brought you here (for the battle of Al-Jamal)! You abandoned the Khalifah who was assassinated (Uthman, may Allah be pleased with him) and then came asking for revenge for his blood!'

              He said, `We recited at the time of the Messenger of Allah, and Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman,

              وَاتَّقُواْ فِتْنَةً لاَّ تُصِيبَنَّ الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ مِنكُمْ خَأصَّةً


              And fear the Fitnah (affliction and trial) which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong,

              We did not think that this Ayah was about us too, until it reached us as it did."'

              Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn Abbas said that;

              the Ayah,
              وَاتَّقُواْ فِتْنَةً لاَّ تُصِيبَنَّ الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ مِنكُمْ خَأصَّةً
              (And fear the Fitnah (affliction and trial) which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong), refers to the Companions of the Prophet in particular.

              In another narration from Ibn Abbas, he said,

              "Allah commanded the believers to stop evil from flourishing among them, so that Allah does not encompass them all in the torment (Fitnah)."

              This, indeed, is a very good explanation, prompting Mujahid to comment about Allah's statement,
              وَاتَّقُواْ فِتْنَةً لاَّ تُصِيبَنَّ الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ مِنكُمْ خَأصَّةً
              (And fear the Fitnah (affliction and trial) which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong),

              "Is for you too!"

              Several said similarly, such as Ad-Dahhak and Yazid bin Abi Habib and several others.

              Ibn Mas`ud said,

              "There is none among you but there is something that represents a Fitnah for him, for Allah said,

              إِنَّمَأ أَمْوَلُكُمْ وَأَوْلَـدُكُمْ فِتْنَةٌ

              Your wealth and your children are only a trial (Fitnah)... (64:15)

              Therefore, when you seek refuge, seek it with Allah from the Fitnah that causes misguidance."

              Ibn Jarir collected this Hadith.

              The view that the warning in this Ayah addresses the Companions and all others is true, even though the speech in the Ayah was directed at the Companions.

              There are Hadiths that warn against Fitnah in general, thus providing the correctness of this explanation. Similarly there will be a separate book in which this subject will be discussed, Allah willing, as also is the case with the Imams, there being a number of writings about this.

              Of the most precise things that have been mentioned under this topic, is what was recorded by Imam Ahmad from Hudhayfah bin Al-Yaman that the Messenger of Allah said,

              وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ لَتَأْمُرُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَلَتَنْهَوُنَّ عَنِ الْمُنْكَرِ أَوْ لَيُوشِكَنَّ اللهُ أَنْ يَبْعَثَ عَلَيْكُمْ عِقَابًا مِنْ عِنْدِهِ ثُمَّ لَتَدْعُنَّهُ فَلَا يَسْتَجِيبُ لَكُم

              By He in Whose Hand is my soul! You will enjoin righteousness and forbid evil, or Allah will send a punishment upon you from Him; you will supplicate then to Him, but He will not answer your supplication.

              Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Ar-Riqad said,

              "I heard Hudhayfah saying,

              `A person used to utter one word during the time of the Messenger of Allah and become a hypocrite on account of it. I now hear such words from one of you four times in the same sitting. Surely, you will enjoin good, forbid evil and encourage each other to do good or Allah will surround you all with torment, or make the wicked among you become your leaders. The righteous among you will then supplicate, but their supplication will not be accepted."'

              Imam Ahmad recorded that An-Nu`man bin Bashir said that the Prophet gave a speech in which he said, while pointing to his ears with two of his fingers,

              مَثَلُ الْقَايِمِ عَلَى حُدُودِ اللهِ وَالْوَاقِعِ فِيهَا وَالْمُدَاهِنِ فِيهَا كَمَثَلِ قَوْمٍ رَكِبُوا سَفِينَةً فَأَصَابَ بَعْضُهُمْ أَسْفَلَهَا وَأَوْعَرَهَا وَشَرَّهَا وَأَصَابَ بَعْضُهُمْ أَعْلَهَا فَكَانَ الَّذِينَ فِي أَسْفَلِهَا إِذَا اسْتَقَوُا الْمَاءَ مَرُّوا عَلَى مَنْ فَوقَهُمْ فَأذُوْهُمْ فَقَالُوا لَوْ خَرَقْنَا فِي نَصِيبِنَا خَرْقًا فَاسْتَقَيْنَا مِنْهُ وَلَمْ نُوْذِ مَنْ فَوْقَنَا فَإِنْ تَرَكُوهُمْ وَأَمْرَهُمْ هَلَكُوا جَمِيعًا وَإِنْ أَخَذُوا عَلَى أَيْدِيهِمْ نَجَوْا جَمِيعًا

              The parable of the person abiding by Allah's order and restrictions in comparison to those who violate them, or sit idle while they are being violated, is that of those who drew lots for their seats in a boat. Some of them got seats in the lower part, which is the most rough and worst part, and the others in the upper. When the former needed water, they had to go up to bring water and that troubled the others, so they said, `Let us make a hole in our share of the ship and get water, saving those who are above us from troubling them, so, if the people in the upper part let the others do what they suggested, all the people of the ship would be destroyed, but if they prevented them, both parties would be safe.

              This was recorded by Al-Bukhari, but not Muslim, in the Book of Partnerships and the Book of Witnesses.

              It was also recorded by At-Tirmidhi through a different route of narration.

              Imam Ahmad recorded that Umm Salamah, the Prophet's wife, said,

              "I heard the Messenger of Allah saying,

              إِذَا ظَهَرَتِ الْمَعَاصِي فِي أُمَّتِي عَمَّهُمُ اللهُ بِعَذَابٍ مِنْ عِنْدِه

              If sins become apparent in my Ummah, Allah will surround them with punishment from Him.

              I said, `O Allah's Messenger! Will they have righteous people among them then?'

              He said,
              بَلَى
              Yes.

              I asked, `What will happen to them?'

              He said,

              يُصِيبُهُمْ مَا أَصَابَ النَّاسَ ثُمَّ يَصِيرُونَ إِلَى مَغْفِرَةٍ مِنَ اللهِ وَرِضْوَان

              They will be stricken as the people, but they will end up with Allah's forgiveness and pleasure."

              Imam Ahmad recorded that Jarir said that the Messenger of Allah said,

              مَا مِنْ قَوْمٍ يُعْمَلُ فِيهِمْ بِالْمَعَاصِي هُمْ أَعَزُّ وَأَكْثَرُ مِمَّنْ يَعْمَلُونَ ثُمَّ لَمْ يُغَيِّرُوهُ إِلاَّ عَمَّهُمُ اللهُ بِعِقَاب

              Every people among whom sins are being committed, while they are mightier and more numerous than those who do wrong, yet they did nothing to stop them, then Allah will surround them all with punishment.

              Ibn Majah collected this Hadith

              get Quran App:bit.ly/AlQuranApp

              #GreentechApps
              wow thank you so much for this!

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