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A verse to prove Mushriks of Mecca did not take Allah as Lord (rip Salafi "Tawheed")

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  • A verse to prove Mushriks of Mecca did not take Allah as Lord (rip Salafi "Tawheed")

    Salafi Tawheed: "You should know that the disbelievers/polytheists in the time of the Messenger (saw) affirmed Allah's Oneness of Lordship (Rububbiyah) but this did not enter them into Islam.

    [They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, "Our Lord is Allah."
    - (Quran 22:40)

    According to Allah in this Quran verse, clearly the Mushriks of Mecca did not take Allah as their Lord.
    Let's look at an authentic Sahih Bukhari Hadith to further illustrate this point.

    I asked Ibn `Amr bin Al-As, "Tell me of the worst thing which the pagans did to the Prophet." He said, "While the Prophet (ﷺ) was praying in the Hijr of the Ka`ba; `Uqba bin Abi Mu'ait came and put his garment around the Prophet's neck and throttled him violently. Abu Bakr came and caught him by his shoulder and pushed him away from the Prophet (ﷺ) and said, "Do you want to kill a man just because he says, 'My Lord is Allah?' "
    - https://sunnah.com/bukhari/63/82
    - https://sunnah.com/bukhari/62/28
    According to Abu Bakr, our Prophet was strangled violently to the point of killing him, for saying Allah is his Lord, after which Abu Bakr himself was severaly beaten unconscious as well. Again, this hadith clearly shows how the Prophet and his Compagnions were abused for saying Allah is their Lord.

  • #2
    Asalamu'alaykum!
    Please put any emotions aside and read with open mind.

    The disbelievers whom the Messenger of Allaah fought against, affirmed Lordship for Allah but this (belief) did not cause them to enter into the fold of Islam.

    There are many evidences of this in the Quran:

    "Say: ‘Who provides for you from the sky and the earth, or who owns the hearing and the sight? And who brings out the living from the dead and brings out the dead from the living? And who administers the affairs?’ They will surely say: ‘Allaah.’ Say: ‘Will you then not be dutiful to Him?" [Surah Yoonus: 31]

    "Say, [O Muhammad], "To whom belongs the earth and whoever is in it, if you should know?"
    They will say, "To Allah." Say, "Then will you not remember?"
    Say, "Who is Lord of the seven heavens and Lord of the Great Throne?"
    They will say, "[They belong] to Allah." Say, "Then will you not fear Him?"
    Say, "In whose hand is the realm of all things - and He protects while none can protect against Him - if you should know?"
    They will say, "[All belongs] to Allah." Say, "Then how are you deluded?"
    Rather, We have brought them the truth, and indeed they are liars."

    [Surah Muminoon: 84-90]

    "And if you should ask them, "Who has created the heavens and the earth?" they would surely say, "They were created by the Exalted in Might, the Knowing."
    [Surah Zukhruf: 9]

    Why did the disbelievers of Mecca worship other than Allah?

    - Seeking nearness to Allah

    "And those who take protectors besides Him (say): ‘We don’t worship them except to bring us closer to Allaah.’ Verily Allaah will judge between them concerning that which they differ in. Verily, Allaah does not guide he who is a liar, a disbeliever."
    [Surah Az-Zumar: 3]

    - For Intersession

    "And they worship besides Allaah things that harm them not nor benefit them. And they say: ‘These are our intercessors besides Allaah."
    [Surah Yoonus: 18]

    ---

    You can read this for further information:

    http://wayofthesalaf.com/pdf/en/Removal-of-the-Doubts-Kashf-Ush-Shubuhaat.pdf

    https://abdurrahmanorg.files.wordpre...baanah-com.pdf

    ---

    With regards to the specifics of what you have put forward, please do ask a scholar of Ahlus-Sunnah to explain.

    ---

    Having a problem with Tawheed is having a problem with Islam itself. Because Islam is Tawheed. Tawheed is the greatest thing Allah has ordered and Shirk is the greatest thing Allah has prohibited.

    "Indeed, Allah does not forgive association (shirk) with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin."
    [Surah An-Nisaa: 48]

    "Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers."
    [Surah Al-Maaida: 72]

    Worshipping Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) alone is Islam, and the message that all the prophets came with.

    "Say, "O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah." But if they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]."
    [Surah Aal-i-Imraan: 64]

    "Alif, Lam, Ra. [This is] a Book whose verses are perfected and then presented in detail from [one who is] Wise and Acquainted.
    [Through a messenger, saying], "Do not worship except Allah. Indeed, I am to you from Him a warner and a bringer of good tidings,"
    [Surah Hud: 1-2]

    "Say, "I am only a man like you, to whom has been revealed that your god is one God. So whoever would hope for the meeting with his Lord - let him do righteous work and not associate in the worship of his Lord anyone."
    [Surah Kahf: 110]

    "And mention, [O Muhammad], the brother of 'Aad, when he warned his people in the [region of] al-Ahqaf - and warners had already passed on before him and after him - [saying], "Do not worship except Allah. Indeed, I fear for you the punishment of a terrible day."
    [Surah Ahqaf: 21]

    "And [He revealed] that the masjids are for Allah, so do not invoke with Allah anyone."
    [Surah Jinn: 18]


    "And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham said to his father and his people, "Indeed, I am disassociated from that which you worship
    Except for He who created me; and indeed, He will guide me."
    [Surah Zukhruf: 26-27]

    "Indeed they, when it was said to them, "Laa illaaha ilAllahu," were arrogant
    And were saying, "Are we to leave our gods for a mad poet?"
    [Surah As-Saaffaat: 35-36]

    "And your Lord has decreed that you not worship except Him"
    [Surah Al-Israa: 23]

    ---

    I hope that you understand now. Islam is Tawheed. You can look into this issue further and check out the links I pasted.

    JazakAllahu khayr for reading, sorry it's a bit long!

    Comment


    • #3
      The pagans of Makkah took Allah as their supreme Lord but had other deities, like a pantheon of 'Gods' they worshipped and believed in alongside Allah. There was more than 300 idol deities in the Kabah, which our beloved Prophet PBUH removed, to uphold the same message as Abraham and the biblical Prophets.

      This is what I have heard before

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
        The pagans of Makkah took Allah as their supreme Lord but had other deities, like a pantheon of 'Gods' they worshipped and believed in alongside Allah. There was more than 300 idol deities in the Kabah, which our beloved Prophet PBUH removed, to uphold the same message as Abraham and the biblical Prophets.

        This is what I have heard before
        Dont bother speaking to this person

        hes like those sufis that try to proove that the quraysh did not believe in Allah (rububiya)

        they try to proove this so then they can say Muhammed صلى الله عليه وسلم came to teach them Allah exists and not to tell them about their idol worshipping being shirk which then leads them to saying seeking intercession, relief and basically praying to the dead and idols is not a problem

        filthy shirky aqeedah
        they want people to pray the dead and ask the dead for help
        disgusting mushriks

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Okay View Post
          Asalamu'alaykum!
          Please put any emotions aside and read with open mind.

          The disbelievers whom the Messenger of Allaah fought against, affirmed Lordship for Allah but this (belief) did not cause them to enter into the fold of Islam.

          There are many evidences of this in the Quran:

          "Say: ‘Who provides for you from the sky and the earth, or who owns the hearing and the sight? And who brings out the living from the dead and brings out the dead from the living? And who administers the affairs?’ They will surely say: ‘Allaah.’ Say: ‘Will you then not be dutiful to Him?" [Surah Yoonus: 31]

          "Say, [O Muhammad], "To whom belongs the earth and whoever is in it, if you should know?"
          They will say, "To Allah." Say, "Then will you not remember?"
          Say, "Who is Lord of the seven heavens and Lord of the Great Throne?"
          They will say, "[They belong] to Allah." Say, "Then will you not fear Him?"
          Say, "In whose hand is the realm of all things - and He protects while none can protect against Him - if you should know?"
          They will say, "[All belongs] to Allah." Say, "Then how are you deluded?"
          Rather, We have brought them the truth, and indeed they are liars."

          [Surah Muminoon: 84-90]

          "And if you should ask them, "Who has created the heavens and the earth?" they would surely say, "They were created by the Exalted in Might, the Knowing."
          [Surah Zukhruf: 9]

          Why did the disbelievers of Mecca worship other than Allah?

          - Seeking nearness to Allah

          "And those who take protectors besides Him (say): ‘We don’t worship them except to bring us closer to Allaah.’ Verily Allaah will judge between them concerning that which they differ in. Verily, Allaah does not guide he who is a liar, a disbeliever."
          [Surah Az-Zumar: 3]

          - For Intersession

          "And they worship besides Allaah things that harm them not nor benefit them. And they say: ‘These are our intercessors besides Allaah."
          [Surah Yoonus: 18]

          ---

          You can read this for further information:

          http://wayofthesalaf.com/pdf/en/Removal-of-the-Doubts-Kashf-Ush-Shubuhaat.pdf

          https://abdurrahmanorg.files.wordpre...baanah-com.pdf

          ---

          With regards to the specifics of what you have put forward, please do ask a scholar of Ahlus-Sunnah to explain.

          ---

          Having a problem with Tawheed is having a problem with Islam itself. Because Islam is Tawheed. Tawheed is the greatest thing Allah has ordered and Shirk is the greatest thing Allah has prohibited.

          "Indeed, Allah does not forgive association (shirk) with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin."
          [Surah An-Nisaa: 48]

          "Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers."
          [Surah Al-Maaida: 72]

          Worshipping Allah (subhanahu wa ta'ala) alone is Islam, and the message that all the prophets came with.

          "Say, "O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah." But if they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]."
          [Surah Aal-i-Imraan: 64]

          "Alif, Lam, Ra. [This is] a Book whose verses are perfected and then presented in detail from [one who is] Wise and Acquainted.
          [Through a messenger, saying], "Do not worship except Allah. Indeed, I am to you from Him a warner and a bringer of good tidings,"
          [Surah Hud: 1-2]

          "Say, "I am only a man like you, to whom has been revealed that your god is one God. So whoever would hope for the meeting with his Lord - let him do righteous work and not associate in the worship of his Lord anyone."
          [Surah Kahf: 110]

          "And mention, [O Muhammad], the brother of 'Aad, when he warned his people in the [region of] al-Ahqaf - and warners had already passed on before him and after him - [saying], "Do not worship except Allah. Indeed, I fear for you the punishment of a terrible day."
          [Surah Ahqaf: 21]

          "And [He revealed] that the masjids are for Allah, so do not invoke with Allah anyone."
          [Surah Jinn: 18]


          "And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham said to his father and his people, "Indeed, I am disassociated from that which you worship
          Except for He who created me; and indeed, He will guide me."
          [Surah Zukhruf: 26-27]

          "Indeed they, when it was said to them, "Laa illaaha ilAllahu," were arrogant
          And were saying, "Are we to leave our gods for a mad poet?"
          [Surah As-Saaffaat: 35-36]

          "And your Lord has decreed that you not worship except Him"
          [Surah Al-Israa: 23]

          ---

          I hope that you understand now. Islam is Tawheed. You can look into this issue further and check out the links I pasted.

          JazakAllahu khayr for reading, sorry it's a bit long!
          Nope, you misinterpreted the ayahs, they are not to be taken literally. Maybe you should lead the tafseer sometime.

          If you take the ayahs like you say it and interpret them literally like you, then we will run into major contradictions, because of the verse I posted.
          Speaking of which, how would you interpret my verse lol? According to you Quran is filled with contradictions then lol, nice aqeedah

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
            The pagans of Makkah took Allah as their supreme Lord but had other deities, like a pantheon of 'Gods' they worshipped and believed in alongside Allah. There was more than 300 idol deities in the Kabah, which our beloved Prophet PBUH removed, to uphold the same message as Abraham and the biblical Prophets.

            This is what I have heard before
            Again, has nothing to do with Tawheed. If you even take 1% another deity besides Allah, let alone a pantheon, you're a pure mushrik, and in no way whatsoever can you be called a muwahid in anything.
            But the ayah and hadith clearly show they did not take Allah as Lord either anyways.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

              Dont bother speaking to this person

              hes like those sufis that try to proove that the quraysh did not believe in Allah (rububiya)

              they try to proove this so then they can say Muhammed صلى الله عليه وسلم came to teach them Allah exists and not to tell them about their idol worshipping being shirk which then leads them to saying seeking intercession, relief and basically praying to the dead and idols is not a problem

              filthy shirky aqeedah
              they want people to pray the dead and ask the dead for help
              disgusting mushriks
              You are anti-intercession? Allah and Messenger speak great deal aboutt hem lol, and that Angels and good believers will intercede, and also do in this dunya.
              Allah fully supports, and set up intercession lol, the problem with mushriks was that they thought their idols were gods who could rival and intercede WITHOUT Allah's permission, that's why Allah says every time: "Who can interecede without His permission?"

              You use the say-so of mushriks who were liars anyways to prove they had tawheed ar-rububiyah LOL.

              The verses where Allah says: "If you were to ask them who is the Lord.... they would surely say: Allah" does not mean they would actually, it's a question inverse type of question

              Which is why they strangled, violated, abused, evicted and almost killed our Prophet, and his compagnions, as the Quran ayah and Hadith says, only for saying; "My Lord is Allah".
              You reject Bukhari hadith and Quran ayah? Talk about kufr lol

              Also mushriks of Mecca had rububiyah??
              And they say, "There is not but our worldly life; we die and live, and nothing destroys us except time." (45:24)

              Indeed, those you worship besides Allah do not possess for you [the power of] provision. So seek from Allah provision (29:17)

              Yet they have taken other gods besides Allah hoping to get their help. (36:74)

              “They would threaten you with those beside Him” (39:36)

              they disbelieve in the Most Merciful. Say, "He is my Lord; there is no deity except Him. (13:30)

              Those who say: ‘We were given rain by such and such a star’ disbelieve in Me and believe in the stars.” (Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī)

              When they are told to prostrate before the Gracious One, they ask, "Who is this Gracious One? Are we to prostrate to whatever you order us?" (25:60)


              Do you call someone who says stuff like this a muwahid who has rububiyyah? is this your criteria for tawheed in rububiyah? this is nothing short of atheism lol, nice tawheed you got there, pal

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

                Dont bother speaking to this person

                hes like those sufis that try to proove that the quraysh did not believe in Allah (rububiya)

                they try to proove this so then they can say Muhammed صلى الله عليه وسلم came to teach them Allah exists and not to tell them about their idol worshipping being shirk which then leads them to saying seeking intercession, relief and basically praying to the dead and idols is not a problem

                filthy shirky aqeedah
                they want people to pray the dead and ask the dead for help
                disgusting mushriks
                1. Say, “Is it other than Allah I should desire as a lord while He is the Lord of all things? (6:164)
                2. [He is] the Rabb (Lord) of the East and the West; there is no deity except Him, so take Him as Disposer of [your] affairs. (Al-Muzzammil 73:9)

                Just another two verses that prove the mushrikeen did not take Allah as the rabb ;)
                But disbelieve and reject all you want lol

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
                  The pagans of Makkah took Allah as their supreme Lord but had other deities, like a pantheon of 'Gods' they worshipped and believed in alongside Allah. There was more than 300 idol deities in the Kabah, which our beloved Prophet PBUH removed, to uphold the same message as Abraham and the biblical Prophets.

                  This is what I have heard before
                  "to uphold the same message as Abraham and the biblical Prophets."
                  That's funny.
                  I'll tell you the message of the other biblical Prophet's including Ibrahim (as).
                  1. Nor could he order you to take the angels and prophets as lords. Would he order you to disbelief after you had been Muslims? (3:80) Prophet MUHAMMAD (saw)
                  2. "O two companions of the prison! Are many different lords better or Allah, the One, the Irresistible? (12:39) YUSUF (as) These kuffar did not possess tawhid al-rububiyya as Ibn Taymiyya claimed; and Yusuf (as) was calling to nothing other than tawhid al-rububiyya because in reality there is no such thing as tawhid al-rububiyya and tawhid al-uluhiyya according to Yusuf (as) so are they more acquainted with tawhid than him?
                  3. They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. (9:31)
                  4. Do you kill a man [merely] because he says, 'My Lord is Allah' while he has brought you clear proofs from your Lord? (40:28) MUSA (as)
                  5. Clearly these kuffar in time of Musa (as) did not have Tawheed ar-Rububbiyah.
                    We only say that some of our gods have possessed you with evil." (11:54)
                    The people of Hud (as) did clearly not have Tawheed ar-Rububbiyah.
                  6. Have you not considered the one who argued with Abraham about his Lord [merely] because Allah had given him kingship? When Abraham said, "My Lord is the one who gives life and causes death," he said, "I give life and cause death." Abraham said, "Indeed, Allah brings up the sun from the east, so bring it up from the west." So the disbeliever was overwhelmed [by astonishment] (2:258)
                  1. Clearly Ibrahim (as) was sent to teach Tawheed ar-Rububbiyah as well.
                    These are just a few ayahs that show how Ibrahim (as), Musa (as), Yusuf (as) and Hud (as) were sent to teach Tawheed ar-Rububbiyah. The claim that Messengers were not sent to teach Tawheed Ar-Rububiyyah, because “none disagreed with this, Muslim or polytheist” is incorrect.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Reddington View Post

                    Nope, you misinterpreted the ayahs, they are not to be taken literally. Maybe you should lead the tafseer sometime.

                    If you take the ayahs like you say it and interpret them literally like you, then we will run into major contradictions, because of the verse I posted.
                    Speaking of which, how would you interpret my verse lol? According to you Quran is filled with contradictions then lol, nice aqeedah
                    So exactly how do you interpret al-Zumar:3?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Reddington View Post

                      "to uphold the same message as Abraham and the biblical Prophets."
                      That's funny.
                      I'll tell you the message of the other biblical Prophet's including Ibrahim (as).
                      1. Nor could he order you to take the angels and prophets as lords. Would he order you to disbelief after you had been Muslims? (3:80) Prophet MUHAMMAD (saw)
                      2. "O two companions of the prison! Are many different lords better or Allah, the One, the Irresistible? (12:39) YUSUF (as) These kuffar did not possess tawhid al-rububiyya as Ibn Taymiyya claimed; and Yusuf (as) was calling to nothing other than tawhid al-rububiyya because in reality there is no such thing as tawhid al-rububiyya and tawhid al-uluhiyya according to Yusuf (as) so are they more acquainted with tawhid than him?
                      3. They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah, and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. (9:31)
                      4. Do you kill a man [merely] because he says, 'My Lord is Allah' while he has brought you clear proofs from your Lord? (40:28) MUSA (as)
                      5. Clearly these kuffar in time of Musa (as) did not have Tawheed ar-Rububbiyah.
                        We only say that some of our gods have possessed you with evil." (11:54)
                        The people of Hud (as) did clearly not have Tawheed ar-Rububbiyah.
                      6. Have you not considered the one who argued with Abraham about his Lord [merely] because Allah had given him kingship? When Abraham said, "My Lord is the one who gives life and causes death," he said, "I give life and cause death." Abraham said, "Indeed, Allah brings up the sun from the east, so bring it up from the west." So the disbeliever was overwhelmed [by astonishment] (2:258)
                      1. Clearly Ibrahim (as) was sent to teach Tawheed ar-Rububbiyah as well.
                        These are just a few ayahs that show how Ibrahim (as), Musa (as), Yusuf (as) and Hud (as) were sent to teach Tawheed ar-Rububbiyah. The claim that Messengers were not sent to teach Tawheed Ar-Rububiyyah, because “none disagreed with this, Muslim or polytheist” is incorrect.
                      Who even said this? Tawheed Rububbiyah means not taking partners with God, also? That none is alike Him or has His powers.

                      Even with Hindus, they believe in a higher deity (unseen) who created all things but they take other idols as 'Gods' too. This is a pattern among pagan religions that there is a higher Creator but they take lesser deities as intercessors because they feel they can't approach the Higher God.

                      If you studied most pagan religions, that is how theologically they are organized. Even with Catholicism they take saints as intercessors with God because they think they are too impure to talk to the Creator directly.

                      I say this is a way for Shaytan to misguide the masses.

                      In despairing of Allah's kindness and nearness to the ordinary individual, the so-called monotheist Catholics and Sufis are acting like Pagans.

                      In this way, they have lost the essence of Abraham's message, while most Muslims have not, because they stick to the teachings of the Qur'an and Sunnah so much, without speculation.

                      Surah Isra verse 81: And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."

                      Can sticking to intercession, like the pagans, in our core theology make us as anything but in the camp of falsehood?

                      How can Islam be ok with this 'intercessor' falsehood, if its very message was removing the intercessors/idols the Makkan pagans had with Allah?


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by notEVOLVED View Post

                        So exactly how do you interpret al-Zumar:3?
                        Unquestionably, for Allah is the pure religion. And those who take protectors besides Him [say], "We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position." Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever.

                        Simple, they are lying, using 'to get closer to Allah' as a lame excuse to worship others.
                        Allah Himself literally exposes them for lying in the very same ayah.


                        This is funny, wahhabis/salafis use this ayah all the time to prove their point.
                        The only thing this proves is that the wahhabis/salafis use as proof the say-so of Mushriks who Allah says are liars lol.
                        Nice foundation to base your tawheed one,lol

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Reddington View Post

                          Unquestionably, for Allah is the pure religion. And those who take protectors besides Him [say], "We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position." Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever.

                          Simple, they are lying, using 'to get closer to Allah' as a lame excuse to worship others.
                          Allah Himself literally exposes them for lying in the very same ayah.


                          This is funny, wahhabis/salafis use this ayah all the time to prove their point.
                          The only thing this proves is that the wahhabis/salafis use as proof the say-so of Mushriks who Allah says are liars lol.
                          Nice foundation to base your tawheed one,lol
                          And which tafseer says this?
                          And why would they seek to be closer to Allah if they didn't even take Him as Lord?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Reddington View Post

                            You are anti-intercession? Allah and Messenger speak great deal aboutt hem lol, and that Angels and good believers will intercede, and also do in this dunya.
                            Allah fully supports, and set up intercession lol, the problem with mushriks was that they thought their idols were gods who could rival and intercede WITHOUT Allah's permission, that's why Allah says every time: "Who can interecede without His permission?"

                            You use the say-so of mushriks who were liars anyways to prove they had tawheed ar-rububiyah LOL.

                            The verses where Allah says: "If you were to ask them who is the Lord.... they would surely say: Allah" does not mean they would actually, it's a question inverse type of question

                            Which is why they strangled, violated, abused, evicted and almost killed our Prophet, and his compagnions, as the Quran ayah and Hadith says, only for saying; "My Lord is Allah".
                            You reject Bukhari hadith and Quran ayah? Talk about kufr lol

                            Also mushriks of Mecca had rububiyah??
                            And they say, "There is not but our worldly life; we die and live, and nothing destroys us except time." (45:24)

                            Indeed, those you worship besides Allah do not possess for you [the power of] provision. So seek from Allah provision (29:17)

                            Yet they have taken other gods besides Allah hoping to get their help. (36:74)

                            “They would threaten you with those beside Him” (39:36)

                            they disbelieve in the Most Merciful. Say, "He is my Lord; there is no deity except Him. (13:30)

                            Those who say: ‘We were given rain by such and such a star’ disbelieve in Me and believe in the stars.” (Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī)

                            When they are told to prostrate before the Gracious One, they ask, "Who is this Gracious One? Are we to prostrate to whatever you order us?" (25:60)


                            Do you call someone who says stuff like this a muwahid who has rububiyyah? is this your criteria for tawheed in rububiyah? this is nothing short of atheism lol, nice tawheed you got there, pal
                            Here is the tafsir for the verse 25:50 that you posted:

                            73. This they said due to their arrogance and stubbornness just as Pharaoh had said to Prophet Moses: What is the Lord of the universe? For the disbelievers of Makkah were not unaware of the Merciful (Rahman), nor was Pharaoh unaware of the Lord of the universe. The wording of the verse itself shows that their question about the Merciful was not the result of their ignorance of Him but was due to their rebelliousness. Otherwise Allah would not have punished them for this but would have informed them politely that He Himself is Merciful. Besides this, it is well known historically that the word Rahman (Merciful) for Allah had been in common usage in Arabia since the ancient times. Please see also (E.N. 5 of Surah As-Sajdah) and (E.N. 35 of Surah Saba).

                            Here is proof the pagans of Arabia knew Allah was Ar-Rahman:

                            http://islamicstudies.info/reference...verse=3&note=5

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post

                              Who even said this? Tawheed Rububbiyah means not taking partners with God, also? That none is alike Him or has His powers.

                              Even with Hindus, they believe in a higher deity (unseen) who created all things but they take other idols as 'Gods' too. This is a pattern among pagan religions that there is a higher Creator but they take lesser deities as intercessors because they feel they can't approach the Higher God.

                              If you studied most pagan religions, that is how theologically they are organized. Even with Catholicism they take saints as intercessors with God because they think they are too impure to talk to the Creator directly.

                              I say this is a way for Shaytan to misguide the masses.

                              In despairing of Allah's kindness and nearness to the ordinary individual, the so-called monotheist Catholics and Sufis are acting like Pagans.

                              In this way, they have lost the essence of Abraham's message, while most Muslims have not, because they stick to the teachings of the Qur'an and Sunnah so much, without speculation.

                              Surah Isra verse 81: And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."

                              Can sticking to intercession, like the pagans, in our core theology make us as anything but in the camp of falsehood?

                              How can Islam be ok with this 'intercessor' falsehood, if its very message was removing the intercessors/idols the Makkan pagans had with Allah?

                              Wrong. Nothing wrong with intercession. Allah and his Messenger fully support it. In fact it's the only way anyone will be saved from Hellfire and enter Paradise, by intercession of Prophets, Angels and good believers.

                              Good luck trying to get your ass saved on Judgement Day without Prophet's intercession. All of mankind will RUN to the Prophet's seeking their help and intercession.
                              Wahhabis/salafis will then be like; "NO! This is shirk! Only ask help from Allah! "? LOLOLOL

                              Allah does not condemn or disapprove of intercession, because he supports and set it up. Now even today Angels are interceding for muslims lol, big Angels around the Throne etc.
                              The problem is if you believe someone can intercede WITHOUT Allah's permission, which is why Allah says:
                              Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? ” (Surah Baqarah, 2: 255.)

                              None will have [power of] intercession except he who had taken from the Most Merciful a covenant. (19:87)

                              No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His leave (hath been obtained). (10:3)

                              They will have no power of intercession, save him who hath made a covenant with his Lord. S. 19:85-87

                              On that Day shall no intercession avail except for those for whom permission has been granted by (Allah) Most Gracious and whose word is acceptable to Him. S. 20:109
                              And those unto whom they cry instead of Him possess no power of intercession, saving him who beareth witness unto the Truth knowingly. S. 43:86

                              How many-so-ever be the angels in the heavens, their intercession will avail nothing except after Allah has given leave for whom He pleases and that he is acceptable to Him. S. 53:26
                              No intercession can avail in His Presence, except for those for whom He has granted permission. (34:23)

                              ... 'Surely! Allah wrongs not even of the weight of an atom (or a smallest ant) but if there is any good (done) He doubles it.' (4.40) The Prophet added, "Then the prophets and Angels and the believers will intercede, and (last of all) the Almighty (Allah) will say, ‘Now remains My Intercession.’ He will then hold a handful of the Fire from which He will take out some people whose bodies have been burnt, and they will be thrown into a river at the entrance of Paradise, called the water of life ... (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 532s)


                              There are more Quran ayahs and hadiths, but I guess this shows the picture.

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