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  • University not allowing us to pray

    Salaam,
    So at my university we have clinics where we practise medical precedures on fake bodies for our studies. However, when my friend and I went to ask to pray asr (because the clinic finishes after magrib starts). A tutor told us no, and that's there's no policy to allow us to go pray.

    I could always say I need the toilet and still go to pray. But I really wonder if there's any way to see if there's any policy in the UK or in UK unis, that allows us Muslims a 5 min break.

    Any help would be wonderful!
    ďVerily, when a servant of God prays seeking only His pleasure, his sins fall away just as the leaves have fallen from this tree.Ē

  • #2
    I am in the USA, so i am speaking from that perspective

    NO ONE can stop you from praying, thats a right Allah has given you

    It may come with consequences, but that too is part of our religion and Allah will reward you for your struggles

    Sura Talaq

    .... to whoever should believe in Allah and the Last day. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him a way out

    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
    دولة الإسلامية باقية





    Comment


    • #3
      Walaykum salam, 

      There's more than one way of handling this.  Ideally you should do your wudhu and try to maintain it before the class starts so that at prayer time, you save time by just doing the salah cos you don't have to do the wudhu as well.  You could just tell your tutor that you need the toilet and then find a discreet place to pray for a few minutes.  During the final year of my degree, some of the students (I think they weren't doing so well in class) would just pop out for 10 minute fag breaks mid lesson- they didn't ask the teacher's permission and the teacher didn't stop or ask what they were doing and this was seen as normal.  That could be interpreted as the campus having low educational standards or it could be interpreted as the fact that at uni level, students are adults and considered old enough to take responsibility for their own educational decisions.  It's not like junior or secondary school where you need the teacher's permission to leave the room.  So when i saw that, I also quietly left the room at prayer times for a few minutes. 

      The other way of handling it would be to contact your uni isoc (if there is one) and ask if anything can be done about this.  My guess is what your teacher did was illegal.  I'm sure there are some Muslim advocacy organisations out there who would know more about what your rights are in this situation.  The ONLY valid reason I could think of for your tutor not letting yu leave the room is if it were hazardous for example if you leave a bunsen burner unattended and it could be a health and safety issue or something very crucial like that- but I seriously doubt if that's the real reason he said no.  Either he said no because he sees it as a lack of seriousness towards your studies to make an excuse to leave a class, or the other reason is prejudice and hatred towards Islam so he wants to put hurdles in your way.

      In either case, you have a duty to Allah (swt) to do your salah and you shouldn't think for a second that this insignificant pathetic excuse for a human being has any right to stop you.  You do not have the option to not pray salah just because someone is determined to go to hellfire and is trying to get you to join him or her.  Don't take no for an answer.  What's the worst your tutor can do?  The worst your tutor can do is try and get you kicked out of the class.  Big deal.  You just look up your legal rights, go to the tutor's boss and say if your rights are violated, you'll take legal action.  I personally would avoid taking legal action because their laws are kufr and inherently unjust, but make them think you're serious and they'll back pedal quite quickly.  Also pray to Allah (swt) to give you the confidence to handle that cos I know some people would feel anxious about challenging authority that they've been taught to respect, but my life experience has taught me that kufaar often only oppress us as much as they can get away with and the moment they realise you stand up for yourself and draw a red line- they avoid crossing it.
      The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Safa_Marwa View Post
        Salaam,
        So at my university we have clinics where we practise medical precedures on fake bodies for our studies. However, when my friend and I went to ask to pray asr (because the clinic finishes after magrib starts). A tutor told us no, and that's there's no policy to allow us to go pray.

        I could always say I need the toilet and still go to pray. But I really wonder if there's any way to see if there's any policy in the UK or in UK unis, that allows us Muslims a 5 min break.

        Any help would be wonderful!
        You can take a 5 minute break and use it for whatever you wish.

        Comment


        • #5
          I doubt there is a prayer caveat within the university policy, but there definitely will be something about a student's cultural/religious beliefs being facilitated and respected.  As a first step mobilise a few people in your group and go to student support.  Don't approach your lecturer as if you are seeking permission to leave for prayer, just inform him as a courtesy.  If possible try to organize a place as close as possible to your clinical area to minimize time out.  Remember you are the customer here, your voice really matters.

          Comment


          • #6
            Most people who are not familiar with Muslim prayer will say No to prayer because they are not familiar with that concept. They also think Muslim prayer is like Christine prayer, something you say in silent. In university and even at work, most people just pray at prayer time without seeking special permission. Unless someone ask or said something, you continue doing your thing. As an adult you shouldn't have to explain yourself what your doing with your time

            Comment


            • #7
              The bottom line is: you don't need his permission.  You're not a child in junior school anymore.  If you're with a Muslim lab partner then you can do things like take turns to leave the room so that the experiment and equipment isn't left unattended at any point and it doesn't have any negative impact on what you're studying.  In fact, I got on well enough with non Muslim friends in my class that they wouldn't have minded me popping out of the room for a few minutes either.

              Just observe how other students leave the room.  Either they just walk out or maybe they might say to the tutor I'm popping to the loo I'll be back soon or whatever so you can see what sort of explanation he/she would overlook, then you can also say I'm popping out too, I'll be back in a few minutes.  No explanation necessary.
              The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by neelu View Post
                Walaykum salam,¬

                There's more than one way of handling this.¬ Ideally you should do your wudhu and try to maintain it before the class starts so that at prayer time, you save time by just doing the salah cos you don't have to do the wudhu as well.¬ You could just tell your tutor that you need the toilet and then find a discreet place to pray for a few minutes.¬ During the final year of my degree, some of the students (I think they weren't doing so well in class) would just pop out for 10 minute fag breaks mid lesson- they didn't ask the teacher's permission and the teacher didn't stop or ask what they were doing and this was seen as normal.¬ That could be interpreted as the campus having low educational standards or it could be interpreted as the fact that at uni level, students are adults and considered old enough to take responsibility for their own educational decisions.¬ It's not like junior or secondary school where you need the teacher's permission to leave the room.¬ So when i saw that, I also quietly left the room at prayer times for a few minutes.¬

                The other way of handling it would be to contact your uni isoc (if there is one) and ask if anything can be done about this.¬ My guess is what your teacher did was illegal.¬ I'm sure there are some Muslim advocacy organisations out there who would know more about what your rights are in this situation.¬ The ONLY valid reason I could think of for your tutor not letting yu leave the room is if it were hazardous for example if you leave a bunsen burner unattended and it could be a health and safety issue or something very crucial like that- but I seriously doubt if that's the real reason he said no.¬ Either he said no because he sees it as a lack of seriousness towards your studies to make an excuse to leave a class, or the other reason is prejudice and hatred towards Islam so he wants to put hurdles in your way.

                In either case, you have a duty to Allah (swt) to do your salah and you shouldn't think for a second that this insignificant pathetic excuse for a human being has any right to stop you.¬ You do not have the option to not pray salah just because someone is determined to go to hellfire and is trying to get you to join him or her.¬ Don't take no for an answer.¬ What's the worst your tutor can do?¬ The worst your tutor can do is try and get you kicked out of the class.¬ Big deal.¬ You just look up your legal rights, go to the tutor's boss and say if your rights are violated, you'll take legal action.¬ I personally would avoid taking legal action because their laws are kufr and inherently unjust, but make them think you're serious and they'll back pedal quite quickly.¬ Also pray to Allah (swt) to give you the confidence to handle that cos I know some people would feel anxious about challenging authority that they've been taught to respect, but my life experience has taught me that kufaar often only oppress us as much as they can get away with and the moment they realise you stand up for yourself and draw a red line- they avoid crossing it.
                Yeah so usually what all of us Muslim do is just say we have to go to the bathroom and then we quickly pray. But we were having a discussion is it allowed to lie by saying we have to go to the bathroom, when actually we need to pray? One of the other Muslim brothers takes a step into the bathroom just to avoid telling a lie!

                I'm probably going to have a talk with my university ISOC and see if there's any specific policy behind this. Reading all the Equality acts, all I can see is that it's discrimination to stop someone from praying i.e. not allowing someone to leave to pray but allowing cigar breaks etc. So I'll see what happens next clinic session. I want to step up and say proudly that I want to pray. And if the tutor has a problem, I'll just have a polite discussion. Last time she kept asking questions to another tutor is it really compulsory, can't they pray later etc. So she's probably just really ignorant in the matter. insha'Allah it gets sorted out!
                ďVerily, when a servant of God prays seeking only His pleasure, his sins fall away just as the leaves have fallen from this tree.Ē

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by UmmAbdullah86 View Post
                  I doubt there is a prayer caveat within the university policy, but there definitely will be something about a student's cultural/religious beliefs being facilitated and respected.¬ As a first step mobilise a few people in your group and go to student support.¬ Don't approach your lecturer as if you are seeking permission to leave for prayer, just inform him as a courtesy.¬ If possible try to organize a place as close as possible to your clinical area to minimize time out.¬ Remember you are the customer here, your voice really matters.
                  Jazakallah that's really useful! I do try to pray in a room that's closest to the clinic, so I don't cause too much disruption. I'm going to speak to the other Muslim brothers and sisters, and see if theres a general consensus to do something about it. I think it's mostly because there's no policy about leaving to pray, so the tutor doesn't really know what to do in the situation. I remember she kept searching just to find a policy. I know when I have patients, then I can't leave. But for this clinic, it's all fake dummies, so it shouldn't really be a problem! insha'Allah, when I speak to the tutor again and explain the why we pray she may understand. It's not like she can stop us from leaving anyways. But I rather her understand why we pray instead!
                  ďVerily, when a servant of God prays seeking only His pleasure, his sins fall away just as the leaves have fallen from this tree.Ē

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kya View Post
                    Most people who are not familiar with Muslim prayer will say No to prayer because they are not familiar with that concept. They also think Muslim prayer is like Christine prayer, something you say in silent. In university and even at work, most people just pray at prayer time without seeking special permission. Unless someone ask or said something, you continue doing your thing. As an adult you shouldn't have to explain yourself what your doing with your time
                    Yes I understand what you mean! I think that's the case here. My tutor seemed quite ignorant. Even another Muslim tutor was trying to explain to her why we have to pray due to winter timing etc! But I don't think she still understood. insha'Allah if she asks again, I'll just explain to her properly and then just leave to pray!
                    ďVerily, when a servant of God prays seeking only His pleasure, his sins fall away just as the leaves have fallen from this tree.Ē

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I would not say that is a lie any worse than the various strategies the Prophets and companions used to worship Allah during fitna (Abraham denying destroying the idols, for example)
                      .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                      نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                      دولة الإسلامية باقية





                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sister I think you're way overthinking this.  Allah (swt) orders us to pray salah at specific times- this is non negotiable.  In real terms there really is no solid obstacle in your way.  No one is holding a gun to your head, no one has even stated negative consequences for excusing yourself for 5-10 mins (as other students are permitted to do for the call of nature), which suggests the biggest obstacle you have to overcome is your own hesitation and lack of confidence in just going ahead and doing the salah regardless.  What's the worst that can happen?  Your tutor can't do anything about this really other than moan or maybe make snide comments.

                        Whilst I don't recognise kufr laws, I'm only stating this in order to reassure you (ie salah would still be fard even if there were laws against it): but you have a legal right to pray.  Colleges and universities generally have to conform to diversity policies that they are not allowed to discriminate against people on the basis of gender, colour or religion.  Preventing your right to pray is discrimination, especially considering no one's health or safety is at risk by doing so (and I mentioned in my previous comment how to prevent any health and safety issues from arising).  You would be right to insist on praying, Allah is on your side which should be sufficient for you.  Aside from that (though I do not think this point is relevant) the law is on your side, your university policy is most likely on your side and your tutor really has no leg to stand on.  What's the worst she can do?  Huff and puff and hope your house blows down?

                        Everyone has suggested options on how to go about doing this.  If you have to do wudhu then asking to go to the bathroom would not be lying anyway cos going to the bathroom is part of that.  Just go ahead and do it and don't let the whispers of shaytan hold you back.  Maybe you don't like confrontation, but if you're serious about adhering to your deen, then a far bigger lesson in life than whatever you're studying is to learn how to stand up for yourself for the sake of Allah (swt) because even in work and school environments that aren't openly hostile, there are the pressures (to go to the pub to socialise, to laugh along with inappropriate jokes, to join in with Xmas/Thanksgiving/Halloween celebrations etc) and the microaggressions.  Who are such people to dictate how you live your life anyway?  At some point you have to make a choice and decide whether you'll live life on your own terms in accordance with Islamic rules or in accordance with the dictats of what other people think.
                        The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well, in suituarions like this, i would ask to be excused so that I can pray, just out of courtesy

                          i dont really care what they actually say, i dont really care about their permission, i would leave and pray regardless of whether say said i can or i cant. I would simply leave

                          lol, nobody is going to stop me. When it’s time to pray, it’s time to pray. I did this at university and i do this at work. Pray in hallways, pray in public, i do not care, my faith comes before anyone and anything else

                          we should all do the same
                          Last edited by Faith reloaded 2; 29-11-19, 08:59 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ^Exactly.  A simple "excuse me, I'll just be a few minutes" would suffice.  If you were in a primary or secondary school, teachers there have more authority to tell you what to do and I'd have said to ask your parents to write to the teacher to say you need to be excused from class for x minutes but at uni, you're an adult and teachers don't have any right to dictate what you do with your time.  Their job is to just teach the subject they are teaching, but whether you are diligent with attendance or keep up with homework, or excuse yourself for a few minutes for some lessons is left up to you as long as you keep up with the workload.  It really is not that complicated.  

                            If you take one step towards Allah (swt), He takes ten steps towards you, but it's up to you to take that first step, THEN Allah (swt) will support you the rest of the way.  If you can't even take the first step then the tutor isn't the entire problem- part of the problem would be you as well.  I don't mean to come across as harsh but if you don't learn to stand up for yourself and your deen now- it doesn't bode well for your future.
                            The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

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