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China's vanishing Muslims

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  • China's vanishing Muslims

    China’s Uighur minority live a dystopian nightmare of constant surveillance and brutal policing. At least one million of them are believed to be living in what the U.N. described as a “massive internment camp that is shrouded in secrecy,”


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ

    "They are Shuhadaa (witnesses) to the fact that this Deen is greater than life, that values are more important than blood and that principles are more precious than souls" - Sheikh 'Abdullah Azzam

    Lost in Islamic History :inlove:

  • #2
    I feel so weak when I read news like this. I remember seeing that BBC coverage of the camps and they even said its just a tiny minute sample of what really goes on.

    I ask Allah to make the Muslims in China to be victorious ameen
    وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

    And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


    أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

    Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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    • #3
      May Allaah subhanahu wa ta'ala save every Muslim from oppression and tyranny.

      May this be an awakening for those in slumber.

      Aameen.

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      • #4
        The Muslims of China, India, Kashmir, Sri Lanka etc.... have they not gone against the teaching of Islam in a big way ?

        As far as i understand and correct me if im wrong...

        The Prophet (saw) forbade the Muslims from living among the Mushriqeen.

        The Prophet (saw) said the Fires of the two should not be visible.

        In the Sunnah, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2645; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

        https://islamqa.info/en/answers/1336...-a-better-life

        You can read more on the ruling in the link above, and yes there are exceptions, but the general principle is that it is a no no.

        The Sahaba (ra) and early Muslims lived by this ethos.

        As Islamic lands expanded to cover half of the known world, Muslims started to slowly dilute the teachings and practices of Islam until generation by generation some
        of the commandments were forgotten or simply neglected.

        One of the commandments that was forgotten was that Muslims must not settle among the Pagans.

        So yes the Governments in places like India and China - where millions of Muslims happen to live - are openly hostile to Islam and Muslims, and its only going to get worse, but if these Muslims (among whom are many educated and even scholars of the religion) actually looked at what Islam says on the issue (of living among Mushriqeen) then they cannot act surprised when they are persecuted, oppressed, genocided, killed or exiled.

        Pagans are only doing what pagans do, which is to hate on anything and anyone mono-theistic as they have done for the last 10,000+ years.

        I mean look at Syria, i cannot tell a Nusayri and a Sunni just by looking at them because its the same race but the Nusayris are pagan and we saw what happened in Syria.

        btw, im not saying that the millions and millions of Muslims stuck in these Hostile pagan states have anywhere to go or that they should all try to migrate monday morning but im just saying it does not surprise me even 1% when i read another story like this.
        Last edited by murad; 04-07-19, 12:59 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by murad View Post
          btw, im not saying that the millions and millions of Muslims stuck in these Hostile pagan states have anywhere to go or that they should all try to migrate monday morning but im just saying it does not surprise me even 1% when i read another story like this.
          Your whole post was about how Muslims shouldn't be settling amongst the Pagans, until the last few lines.

          It's as if you are blaming them for being there in the first place.

          It's irrelevant and insensitive.



          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

            Your whole post was about how Muslims shouldn't be settling amongst the Pagans, until the last few lines.

            It's as if you are blaming them for being there in the first place.

            It's irrelevant and insensitive.


            Well perhaps its just not what you and millions of muslims want to hear.

            But it is what Allah (swt) and His Messenger (pbuh) warned against doing.

            It is certainly NOT irrelevant.

            It is very relevant to the discussion because within it (i.e. the general prohibition to live among mushriqeen) lies the long-term solution for many
            Muslims that are finding themselves oppressed, suppressed, even killed or at the very least unfairly targeted on a daily basis.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by murad View Post

              Well perhaps its just not what you and millions of muslims want to hear.

              But it is what Allah (swt) and His Messenger (pbuh) warned against doing.

              It is certainly NOT irrelevant.

              It is very relevant to the discussion because within it (i.e. the general prohibition to live among mushriqeen) lies the long-term solution for many
              Muslims that are finding themselves oppressed, suppressed, even killed or at the very least unfairly targeted on a daily basis.
              whats your solution, describe the logistics of all of this
              "They are Shuhadaa (witnesses) to the fact that this Deen is greater than life, that values are more important than blood and that principles are more precious than souls" - Sheikh 'Abdullah Azzam

              Lost in Islamic History :inlove:

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by samin62 View Post

                whats your solution, describe the logistics of all of this
                Its not "my" solution. I didnt make it up, its the solution found in the Quran, Sunnah and example of the Prophet (saw)
                and those who followed the Rasul (saw), who were the best generation.

                The solution starts by trying to learn and follow a important aspect of the Sunnah (i.e. Hijrah).

                I say "trying" because not everyone can do it instantly. Thats why its a solution and not a magic pill.

                But at least Muslims should learn what the religion says to do in a given situation, should at least
                learn the ruling and then try to follow it.

                Even if it seems difficult and the odds are against you.

                When the Sahaba (ra) found themselves weak, oppressed, in a violent and in a increasingly hostile pro-pagan anti-islam environment they made Hijrah
                if they were capable (there are millions of Muslims who are capable today but choose to ignore this Sunnah, and yes some are not capable the ruling does
                not apply to everyone) and when Dar-al-Islam (Medina) was not established they made Hijrah to another non-Muslim land that was not hostile and did not persecute
                or oppress them for their faith (Abyssinia).


                Last edited by murad; 06-07-19, 10:11 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by murad View Post

                  Well perhaps its just not what you and millions of muslims want to hear.

                  But it is what Allah (swt) and His Messenger (pbuh) warned against doing.

                  It is certainly NOT irrelevant.

                  It is very relevant to the discussion because within it (i.e. the general prohibition to live among mushriqeen) lies the long-term solution for many
                  Muslims that are finding themselves oppressed, suppressed, even killed or at the very least unfairly targeted on a daily basis.
                  Okay.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sad there was a vid on instagram showing a pkk or sdf rebel recording his phone going into a locked room where 2 muslim young women were. He was saying how he rapes one each day and happily joking about it. He goes in the room and they ran to the opposite side of the room. He then ripped ones hijab while shes crying and telling him to stop then he starts trying to force her to commit fahsha. After that nothing is shown as it probably contained fahsha.

                    Very upsetting to see but its a wake up call for many

                    Sad reality though. Everyday our sisters are getting raped and tortured. Everyday our children are becoming orphans. Brothers are being tortured and killed. Everyday this is what is happening to muslims in Asia, Middle east, Africa while we are sitting at home chilling. We will be questioned for this on yawmul qiyama. Especially those who for their entire lives sit and dont ever try to do anything. We are being punished because the ummah, we left Islam and we disobeyed Allah and we sought for honour outside of Islam. The only way to fix things is to go back to Islam and do what the sahaba did.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by murad View Post

                      Its not "my" solution. I didnt make it up, its the solution found in the Quran, Sunnah and example of the Prophet (saw)
                      and those who followed the Rasul (saw), who were the best generation.

                      The solution starts by trying to learn and follow a important aspect of the Sunnah (i.e. Hijrah).

                      I say "trying" because not everyone can do it instantly. Thats why its a solution and not a magic pill.

                      But at least Muslims should learn what the religion says to do in a given situation, should at least
                      learn the ruling and then try to follow it.

                      Even if it seems difficult and the odds are against you.

                      When the Sahaba (ra) found themselves weak, oppressed, in a violent and in a increasingly hostile pro-pagan anti-islam environment they made Hijrah
                      if they were capable (there are millions of Muslims who are capable today but choose to ignore this Sunnah, and yes some are not capable the ruling does
                      not apply to everyone) and when Dar-al-Islam (Medina) was not established they made Hijrah to another non-Muslim land that was not hostile and did not persecute
                      or oppress them for their faith (Abyssinia).

                      So a whole bunch of nothings. I figured
                      "They are Shuhadaa (witnesses) to the fact that this Deen is greater than life, that values are more important than blood and that principles are more precious than souls" - Sheikh 'Abdullah Azzam

                      Lost in Islamic History :inlove:

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by samin62 View Post

                        So a whole bunch of nothings. I figured
                        No a "whole bunch of nothing" is what you advocate.

                        I advocate Hijrah.

                        Others advocate resistance and fighting back.

                        It depends on the situation but ultimately if a Muslim land falls to a non-Muslim power the religion calls upon Muslims to
                        either fight back and repel or to move out.

                        You seem to reject Hijrah, as if it was only for the Sahaba (ra) ?

                        What is your solution, do you even have one out of interest ?

                        Or did you just start this thread to point out how Muslims are suffering under communist mushriqs and nothing can be done about it until Imam Mahdi arrives ?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by murad View Post

                          Its not "my" solution. I didnt make it up, its the solution found in the Quran, Sunnah and example of the Prophet (saw)
                          and those who followed the Rasul (saw), who were the best generation.

                          The solution starts by trying to learn and follow a important aspect of the Sunnah (i.e. Hijrah).

                          I say "trying" because not everyone can do it instantly. Thats why its a solution and not a magic pill.

                          But at least Muslims should learn what the religion says to do in a given situation, should at least
                          learn the ruling and then try to follow it.

                          Even if it seems difficult and the odds are against you.

                          When the Sahaba (ra) found themselves weak, oppressed, in a violent and in a increasingly hostile pro-pagan anti-islam environment they made Hijrah
                          if they were capable (there are millions of Muslims who are capable today but choose to ignore this Sunnah, and yes some are not capable the ruling does
                          not apply to everyone) and when Dar-al-Islam (Medina) was not established they made Hijrah to another non-Muslim land that was not hostile and did not persecute
                          or oppress them for their faith (Abyssinia).

                          Murad, I do not dispute the contents of your post when applied in a general context, but this thread is about Muslims in China. They did not settle there - they are about as native as the Haans.

                          How are they supposed to migrate when their every movements are monitored and restricted? Many and many are imprisoned too.
                          And, if one did escape his land, where would he go to? Not long ago I read of some Chinese Muslims in Egypt being sent back.
                          Would any Muslim country grant them refuge?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            They can't fight back and they can't go make Hijrah because the Chinese hunt them down wherever they are in the world and use any dirty tactic to force them to return, such as threatening the family members that are still over there. And fighting back, against the Chinese who are vastly militarily superior in every possible way, and have pretty much proven they have no qualms by using overwhelming brutality to crush anyone that dares to oppose them. What they are doing isn't far off of what the Nazis did with the final solution for the Jews. Except for the time being, its the cultural genocide of the Uighur people, erasing their very culture, identity and their religion.
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mikha’eel View Post
                              They can't fight back and they can't go make Hijrah because the Chinese hunt them down wherever they are in the world and use any dirty tactic to force them to return, such as threatening the family members that are still over there. And fighting back, against the Chinese who are vastly militarily superior in every possible way, and have pretty much proven they have no qualms by using overwhelming brutality to crush anyone that dares to oppose them. What they are doing isn't far off of what the Nazis did with the final solution for the Jews. Except for the time being, its the cultural genocide of the Uighur people, erasing their very culture, identity and their religion.
                              Look the latest oppression is just a snapshot of a wider problem, which is why my argument is simply as follows:

                              1. When XingJang Sultunate fell to the Chinese infidel power the Muslims should have resisted with guerilla warfare (if that failed) they should have made hijrah.

                              2. Some of them probably did, but Millions didnt, they didnt. They ignored the Ruling of Islam, or they were ignorant of it, or they thought it didnt apply, So they suffered, slowly
                              at first, then more and more, then even more, until we have the situation today.

                              3. Even in this extreme situation like we see China, or Burma, or Kashmir, Hijrah is not impossible, sometimes it can mean years of planning to get out, but thats not to say it cant be done. People have escaped from places like East Germany, and North Korea - which were/are even worse. It is in situations like this that Islam even (Sunni Islam) allows Taqiyah. I cant say more on this because its a public forum and this is a academic general discussion not a step-by-step guide to escaping dictatorships, suffice to say it does not always have to be a run to the border or crawling over barbed wire, there are other ways to leave.

                              4. There are always excuses against Hijrah because its usually a difficult step and nobody likes to leave their motherland, a few of the arguments are;

                              Hijrah was only for the early Muslims (not true, Prophet (saw) Hijrah will not end till the end of time)
                              We have border control now (border control always existed, even Prophet Abraham had to pass Pharonic Egyptian Border control with his wife Sarah)
                              I love my motherland (the Sahaba loved Mecca, and thats why Hijrah is sacrifice for the sake of Allah that carries a great reward inshallah)
                              Its not Fard (In most cases it is Fard, although can be dependent on your situation)
                              There is nowhere to go (There is always somewhere to go, to believe otherwise is to contradict the Quran itself -See Surah al Nisa': 97-98)

                              5. Bottom line, Islam is a religion of action, it is does NOT advocate living in humiliation and subjugation generation after generation. Yes there are times when you are in a extreme situation and cant do anything feasible for the time-being, but the first step in moving towards a change is to take responsibility and do some self-criticism - we should start with acknowledging as individuals, communities, and a ummah that Muslims can never live in safety long-term under Hindu, Mushriq, or Communist Governments (Sri Lanka, China, India are some obvious examples) without being subjugated, humiliated, and eventually genocided, killed or driven out.

                              The religion forbids it, and History has shown it over and over again. If you ignore both the Commandments of the Religion (Islam) and the lessons of History then really you cant blame the Mushriqeen, for being mushriqeen.
                              Last edited by murad; 07-07-19, 01:18 PM.

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