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Studying Western philosophy

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  • Plinchun
    replied
    Originally posted by budi.sudaryo View Post

    I think you're missing the point. it's not using their methods. it's knowing what they believe so that you can counter it and prove it wrong.
    It is like how Dr Zakir Naik knows the bible, for the sake of refutation

    Leave a comment:


  • eesa the kiwi
    replied
    Originally posted by budi.sudaryo View Post

    As simple as what's the rational proof that God exists? How would you answer it without logic and kalam? I'm interested to know. Mind you that the person asking doesn't believe in God, let alone the Qur'an and the prophets peace be upon them.
    You don't have to believe that the Quran came from Allah to find its wisdom effective

    Show me one book of kalam that has a stronger argument and logic when talking to atheists than where Allah says

    أَمْ خُلِقُوا مِنْ غَيْرِ شَيْءٍ أَمْ هُمُ الْخَالِقُونَ

    أَمْ خَلَقُوا السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ بَل لَّا يُوقِنُونَ

    Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the Heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm belief” (verses 35-36)

    Kalam is garbage compared to the arguments in the Quran and if you think otherwise you're delusional

    Leave a comment:


  • budi.sudaryo
    replied
    Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

    Questions such as...


    also those kind of people arent really sincere when it comes to learning about Islam and or becoming muslim
    they just wanna argue, debate or refute Islam
    As simple as what's the rational proof that God exists? How would you answer it without logic and kalam? I'm interested to know. Mind you that the person asking doesn't believe in God, let alone the Qur'an and the prophets peace be upon them.

    Leave a comment:


  • eesa the kiwi
    replied
    Originally posted by budi.sudaryo View Post
    Assalamu 'alaikum,

    Do you think there's any benefit in learning Western philosophy, provided that you already have a strong grounding in aqidah? Websites like IslamQA may prohibit it but among our enemies today are atheism, liberalism, moral relativism, religious universalism, etc. and those are rooted in philosophical beliefs. So how could we counter and call the followers to Islam if we don't have any idea of what they believe?
    No offense bro but going by some of the posts you've posted over the years I'd hardly consider you to have a strong grounding in aqeedah

    If there was good in kalam the sahabah radiallaho anhum would have proceeded in us in it. Western philosophy will only be worse

    The doubts and ammunition this could potentially give the shaitaan to use against you is huge.

    If you value your Islam I'd avoid it. If you dont care and are happy to risk it go ahead

    Leave a comment:


  • Indefinable
    replied
    There's no benefit. 

    Leave a comment:


  • Stoic Believer
    replied
    Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

    Questions such as...


    also those kind of people arent really sincere when it comes to learning about Islam and or becoming muslim
    they just wanna argue, debate or refute Islam
    Who created Allah? Try refuting that without using any kalaam, logic, etc. Can't use Quran or Hadith because an atheist doesn't believe in that. 

    And it doesn't matter if they're not sincere. What matters is that one can refute them so that they can't spread their doubts to ignorant Muslims.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu julaybeeb
    replied
    Originally posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    Certain philosophical questions posed by atheists can only be countered by kalaam. That's the truth.
    Questions such as...


    also those kind of people arent really sincere when it comes to learning about Islam and or becoming muslim
    they just wanna argue, debate or refute Islam

    Leave a comment:


  • budi.sudaryo
    replied
    Originally posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    Certain philosophical questions posed by atheists can only be countered by kalaam. That's the truth.
    I guess so. It's not as simplistic as what brother abu said.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stoic Believer
    replied
    Certain philosophical questions posed by atheists can only be countered by kalaam. That's the truth.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu julaybeeb
    replied
    Originally posted by budi.sudaryo View Post

    I think you're missing the point. it's not using their methods. it's knowing what they believe so that you can counter it and prove it wrong.
    No i understand
    and what your saying is what scholars did in the past
    and it led to alot of deviance in aqeedah

    And modern day groups such as iera do this currently
    although its better just to stick to quran and sunnah

    Allah already countered them with the ayaat in quran theres no need to use the watch maker theory
    Philosophy leads to itiqaad issues
    Last edited by Abu julaybeeb; 09-06-19, 05:46 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • budi.sudaryo
    replied
    Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
    Kalaam is bogus
    and many of the classical ulama hated it
    and many of ahl al biddah were influenced by kalaam

    If people are sincere and interested in Islam then they will accept the verses from quran
    you do not need to use their methods
    stick to kallamullah
    I think you're missing the point. it's not using their methods. it's knowing what they believe so that you can counter it and prove it wrong.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu julaybeeb
    replied
    Kalaam is bogus
    and many of the classical ulama hated it
    and many of ahl al biddah were influenced by kalaam

    If people are sincere and interested in Islam then they will accept the verses from quran
    you do not need to use their methods
    stick to kallamullah

    Leave a comment:


  • budi.sudaryo
    started a topic Studying Western philosophy

    Studying Western philosophy

    Assalamu 'alaikum,

    Do you think there's any benefit in learning Western philosophy, provided that you already have a strong grounding in aqidah? Websites like IslamQA may prohibit it but among our enemies today are atheism, liberalism, moral relativism, religious universalism, etc. and those are rooted in philosophical beliefs. So how could we counter and call the followers to Islam if we don't have any idea of what they believe?
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