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  • Studying Western philosophy

    Assalamu 'alaikum,

    Do you think there's any benefit in learning Western philosophy, provided that you already have a strong grounding in aqidah? Websites like IslamQA may prohibit it but among our enemies today are atheism, liberalism, moral relativism, religious universalism, etc. and those are rooted in philosophical beliefs. So how could we counter and call the followers to Islam if we don't have any idea of what they believe?
    I'm on a strict time management regiment and have to limit my time online. Therefore I have to reply selectively. Please don't be offended if I ignore your questions. :jkk:

  • #2
    Kalaam is bogus
    and many of the classical ulama hated it
    and many of ahl al biddah were influenced by kalaam

    If people are sincere and interested in Islam then they will accept the verses from quran
    you do not need to use their methods
    stick to kallamullah

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
      Kalaam is bogus
      and many of the classical ulama hated it
      and many of ahl al biddah were influenced by kalaam

      If people are sincere and interested in Islam then they will accept the verses from quran
      you do not need to use their methods
      stick to kallamullah
      I think you're missing the point. it's not using their methods. it's knowing what they believe so that you can counter it and prove it wrong.
      I'm on a strict time management regiment and have to limit my time online. Therefore I have to reply selectively. Please don't be offended if I ignore your questions. :jkk:

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by budi.sudaryo View Post

        I think you're missing the point. it's not using their methods. it's knowing what they believe so that you can counter it and prove it wrong.
        No i understand
        and what your saying is what scholars did in the past
        and it led to alot of deviance in aqeedah

        And modern day groups such as iera do this currently
        although its better just to stick to quran and sunnah

        Allah already countered them with the ayaat in quran theres no need to use the watch maker theory
        Philosophy leads to itiqaad issues
        Last edited by Abu julaybeeb; 09-06-19, 05:46 PM.

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        • #5
          Certain philosophical questions posed by atheists can only be countered by kalaam. That's the truth.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Stoic Believer View Post
            Certain philosophical questions posed by atheists can only be countered by kalaam. That's the truth.
            I guess so. It's not as simplistic as what brother abu said.
            I'm on a strict time management regiment and have to limit my time online. Therefore I have to reply selectively. Please don't be offended if I ignore your questions. :jkk:

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Stoic Believer View Post
              Certain philosophical questions posed by atheists can only be countered by kalaam. That's the truth.
              Questions such as...


              also those kind of people arent really sincere when it comes to learning about Islam and or becoming muslim
              they just wanna argue, debate or refute Islam

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

                Questions such as...


                also those kind of people arent really sincere when it comes to learning about Islam and or becoming muslim
                they just wanna argue, debate or refute Islam
                Who created Allah? Try refuting that without using any kalaam, logic, etc. Can't use Quran or Hadith because an atheist doesn't believe in that. 

                And it doesn't matter if they're not sincere. What matters is that one can refute them so that they can't spread their doubts to ignorant Muslims.

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                • #9
                  There's no benefit. 

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by budi.sudaryo View Post
                    Assalamu 'alaikum,

                    Do you think there's any benefit in learning Western philosophy, provided that you already have a strong grounding in aqidah? Websites like IslamQA may prohibit it but among our enemies today are atheism, liberalism, moral relativism, religious universalism, etc. and those are rooted in philosophical beliefs. So how could we counter and call the followers to Islam if we don't have any idea of what they believe?
                    No offense bro but going by some of the posts you've posted over the years I'd hardly consider you to have a strong grounding in aqeedah

                    If there was good in kalam the sahabah radiallaho anhum would have proceeded in us in it. Western philosophy will only be worse

                    The doubts and ammunition this could potentially give the shaitaan to use against you is huge.

                    If you value your Islam I'd avoid it. If you dont care and are happy to risk it go ahead
                    The sunnah is like the ark of Noah, whoever embarks upon it reaches salvation and whoever refuses is drowned.
                    ~ Imam Malik (may Allah have mercy on him)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

                      Questions such as...


                      also those kind of people arent really sincere when it comes to learning about Islam and or becoming muslim
                      they just wanna argue, debate or refute Islam
                      As simple as what's the rational proof that God exists? How would you answer it without logic and kalam? I'm interested to know. Mind you that the person asking doesn't believe in God, let alone the Qur'an and the prophets peace be upon them.
                      I'm on a strict time management regiment and have to limit my time online. Therefore I have to reply selectively. Please don't be offended if I ignore your questions. :jkk:

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by budi.sudaryo View Post

                        As simple as what's the rational proof that God exists? How would you answer it without logic and kalam? I'm interested to know. Mind you that the person asking doesn't believe in God, let alone the Qur'an and the prophets peace be upon them.
                        You don't have to believe that the Quran came from Allah to find its wisdom effective

                        Show me one book of kalam that has a stronger argument and logic when talking to atheists than where Allah says

                        أَمْ خُلِقُوا مِنْ غَيْرِ شَيْءٍ أَمْ هُمُ الْخَالِقُونَ

                        أَمْ خَلَقُوا السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ بَل لَّا يُوقِنُونَ

                        Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the Heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm belief” (verses 35-36)

                        Kalam is garbage compared to the arguments in the Quran and if you think otherwise you're delusional
                        The sunnah is like the ark of Noah, whoever embarks upon it reaches salvation and whoever refuses is drowned.
                        ~ Imam Malik (may Allah have mercy on him)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by budi.sudaryo View Post

                          I think you're missing the point. it's not using their methods. it's knowing what they believe so that you can counter it and prove it wrong.
                          It is like how Dr Zakir Naik knows the bible, for the sake of refutation

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                          • #14
                            You will be jeopardising your own emaan.

                            Stoic Beliver has a valid point but being in a better position to refute atheists at the expense of your own emaan? Worth it?
                            At the end of the day it is not your refutations that will make them believe anyway.

                            And OP, I also agree that you do not possess a strong enough grounding in aqeedah to delve into philosophy. Don't take it as an insult, I wouldn't go near the subject myself.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MyUsernameIs... View Post
                              You will be jeopardising your own emaan.

                              Stoic Beliver has a valid point but being in a better position to refute atheists at the expense of your own emaan? Worth it?
                              At the end of the day it is not your refutations that will make them believe anyway.

                              And OP, I also agree that you do not possess a strong enough grounding in aqeedah to delve into philosophy. Don't take it as an insult, I wouldn't go near the subject myself.
                              You're right. It's not really worth it for most laymen

                              Comment

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