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Understanding Corruption

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  • Understanding Corruption

    If something is 'corrupt' at a fundamental level, all 'secondary values' are automatically nullified.

  • #2
    Provide some context or an example situation.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
      If something is 'corrupt' at a fundamental level, all 'secondary values' are automatically nullified.
      Do you mean if someone has a corrupt intentions than there is no reward in the action? Like giving charity so people talk about how generous a person is?

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      • #4
        why people
        why corruption

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        • #5
          Facts.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Morose View Post
            Provide some context or an example situation.
            Certainly.

            An example is where someone may possess certain 'secondary values' such as being trustworthy; reliable; well mannered; etc. However, if they don't testify that none is worthy of worship except Allah, and that Muhammad is the slave and final messenger of Allah, then they are corrupt at a fundamental level. Therefore, the 'secondary' qualities are null and void.

            It can also apply where someone may testify the above, but it's only 'lip service' or some other type of corruption.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Mintchocchip View Post

              Do you mean if someone has a corrupt intentions than there is no reward in the action? Like giving charity so people talk about how generous a person is?
              That's a good example too.

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              • #8
                The reason I brought this up for discussion is that sometimes people get criticised for stuff like bad manners (secondary value) but the ones criticising them are corrupt at the fundamental level. In such cases, it's impossible to find a middle ground.

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                • #9
                  First principles.
                  Its also applicable to the democracy/voting debate in another thread. People focus on some of the 'positive' outcomes (secondary values) of democracy and yet overlook the fact that the concept at a fundamental level is flawed.

                  First principles people, first principles.

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                  • #10
                    It's not true that secondary values becomes 'null and void' in a literal sense when things are fundamentally corrupted.

                    A Kaafir whose life mission is to destroy Islam and lead people astray is worse than a friendly Kaafir who shows understanding and is sympathetic towards the promotion of Islam.

                    Voting in a democracy may be fundamentally problematic, however, if even a single benefit could be acheived through it, then it won't literally be 'null and void'.

                    Sunni-Salafi Islam recognizes the contribution of Ashari/Maturidi/Mu'tazila scholars in matters of Islamic law, despite the fact that they consider those sects to be among Ahl al-Bidah.

                    Perhaps I misunderstood or the terms need further explanation.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MyUsernameIs... View Post
                      First principles.
                      Its also applicable to the democracy/voting debate in another thread. People focus on some of the 'positive' outcomes (secondary values) of democracy and yet overlook the fact that the concept at a fundamental level is flawed.

                      First principles people, first principles.
                      Besides the fact there is no guarantee of positive outcomes. It's a gamble based on trust. The trust is based on 'secondary values' only because the candidates don't subscribe to the same fundamental principles or values as us.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                        If something is 'corrupt' at a fundamental level, all 'secondary values' are automatically nullified.
                        What is the solution?
                        I am just a simple nomad.

                        Ephemeral reader

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kiro View Post

                          What is the solution?
                          To what?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                            To what?
                            After understanding corruption, what is the solution
                            I am just a simple nomad.

                            Ephemeral reader

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kiro View Post

                              After understanding corruption, what is the solution
                              Dunno... try and avoid it?

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