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  • i am having difficulty with lesson 4

    salam.

    im having some difficulty with lesson four. i dont seem to be grasping this concpet of predefinite articles i think. i dont understand why 2 words in a sentance would have the word "al" in it...

    also, in lesson 3, we went over "al" and tanween "un" meaning "the" and "a" or "an"

    yet i am seeing words with "al" infrint of is, but it still has "un" at the end of it, so i am confused now as to why the sentance still transilates as "the [insert word here]" instead of "the a [insert word here]" i know that sentance makes no sence but i dont understand why there is still a tanween at the end of the word.

    im also noticing a dhammah at the end of most words in lesson 4. i dont understand why. how do you know when to put a dhammah and when not too?

    i will re read the lessons and refresh my understand of what adjectives are in english, and pronounes, and see if that helps.

    any help would be appriciated.

    edit. looking back now, the problem is with the adjective phrase and equational sentences. if ive ever gone though a simmilar thing in english class or french then ive obveously forgotten.

    like hatha talib. this is a sentence with no definite article. so this would be an adjective prase? or an equational sentence? or both?

    hatha al talib is just a sentence correct?

    al walad al talib would be a definite aricle thing right? thus an adjective phrase/ equational sentence?

    i still dont understand why both words would have al on them though...
    Last edited by uncle umar; 12-02-11, 10:15 PM.
    And the (faithful) slaves of the Most Gracious (All‚h) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness. (25:63)

    O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a trade that will save you from a painful torment? (10) That you believe in All‚h and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW),and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of All‚h with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (11) (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Adn (Edn) Paradise; that is indeed the great success. (12)

    JazakAllah khair for the duas but i would prefer duas for shahadah instead.

    sponsor an orphan

  • #2
    Re: i am having difficulty with lesson 4

    :wswrwb:

    Do you mean 'al' in two consecutive words in teh sentence?? like>>>> al kitaabu al qadeemu???

    giv example of ur second [email protected] al and tanween in same word, pls.

    dommah is a default vowel ending for every word unless there is a reason for it to be fat-ha or kasra, wot word should end with kasra or fat-ha, you wil learn in future lessons :insha:

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: i am having difficulty with lesson 4

      oh that right, its default. i dident know that meant in every word lol. jazzakallah khair. ill post an example in one second, inshallah.

      البيتُ الكبيرُ


      الطالبُ المجتهدُ


      رجلٌ فقيرٌ


      البيتُ الكبيرُ جميلٌ


      like in this one, i already know they are talking about a house, so why end with tanween?

      all the other ones have tanween in both. is there somthing ive overlooked?
      Last edited by uncle umar; 12-02-11, 10:19 PM.
      And the (faithful) slaves of the Most Gracious (All‚h) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness. (25:63)

      O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a trade that will save you from a painful torment? (10) That you believe in All‚h and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW),and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of All‚h with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (11) (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Adn (Edn) Paradise; that is indeed the great success. (12)

      JazakAllah khair for the duas but i would prefer duas for shahadah instead.

      sponsor an orphan

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: i am having difficulty with lesson 4

        Can anybody help me here inshallah?
        And the (faithful) slaves of the Most Gracious (All‚h) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness. (25:63)

        O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a trade that will save you from a painful torment? (10) That you believe in All‚h and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW),and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of All‚h with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (11) (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Adn (Edn) Paradise; that is indeed the great success. (12)

        JazakAllah khair for the duas but i would prefer duas for shahadah instead.

        sponsor an orphan

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: i am having difficulty with lesson 4

          LOL sorry i didnt notice tht u edited ur posts

          ok now can u translate those examples???

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: i am having difficulty with lesson 4

            Originally posted by uncle umar View Post
            oh that right, its default. i dident know that meant in every word lol. jazzakallah khair. ill post an example in one second, inshallah.

            البيتُ الكبيرُ


            الطالبُ المجتهدُ


            رجلٌ فقيرٌ


            البيتُ الكبيرُ جميلٌ


            like in this one, i already know they are talking about a house, so why end with tanween?

            all the other ones have tanween in both. is there somthing ive overlooked?
            all the ones in this post of yours have two words only (except the last), right? the first word in each sentence is the object, and the second word is the adjective. these match in gender, number and being indefinite or definite. they also have a dhamma/tanween because of the case they take which is dependent on their role in the sentence (will not go into this as you will learn it later, i dont think its relevant at this stage, would be confusing).

            the reason why the final one has the last word ending in tanween is because the first two words are a compound, an idhaafa which i have forgotten the english terms for now the fact that it matches in being definite translates it as 'the big house', the last word, 'jameelun' is the adjective and takes the tanween for this reason.

            sorry, this isnt a good explanation at all, but its quite late here

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: i am having difficulty with lesson 4

              [QUOTE=uncle umar;4185557]oh that right, its default. i dident know that meant in every word lol. jazzakallah khair. ill post an example in one second, inshallah.
              wa iyyak

              البيتُ الكبيرُ
              if both the words are definite, means have 'al' begining, then that is not a sentence, rather a phrase.

              albaytu kabeerun means, The house (is) big. (complete sentence)

              BUT al baytu al kabeeru means>>> The big house (incomplete sentence/phrase)

              see the difference?
              الطالبُ المجتهدُ
              Now try to translate this above one :d

              At taalibu mujtahidun means The hardworking student (complete sentence)

              so what, at-taalibu al-mujtahidun would mean??

              رجلٌ فقيرٌ
              This is same as above two, only difference is that its indefinite.


              البيتُ الكبيرُ جميلٌ


              like in this one, i already know they are talking about a house, so why end with tanween?

              all the other ones have tanween in both. is there somthing ive overlooked?

              Adjectives come After Nouns: In Arabic: Adjectives/Description words come AFTER the Noun/object [in English it is the opposite].

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: i am having difficulty with lesson 4

                Sik reply ^
                "Treat people in such a way and live amongst them in such a manner that if you die they weep over you, and when you are alive, they crave for your company"

                [Hadhrat Ali R.A]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: i am having difficulty with lesson 4

                  Originally posted by Meh! View Post
                  At taalibu mujtahidun means The hardworking student (complete sentence)

                  so what, at-taalibu al-mujtahidun would mean??
                  oh man i dnt have an edit option

                  sorry uncle umar, my second one is wrong loooooooool ti should say, The student is hardworking , arghhhhhhh

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: i am having difficulty with lesson 4

                    Originally posted by urban rose View Post
                    the reason why the final one has the last word ending in tanween is because the first two words are a compound, an idhaafa which i have forgotten the english terms for now the fact that it matches in being definite translates it as 'the big house', the last word, 'jameelun' is the adjective and takes the tanween for this reason.

                    sorry, this isnt a good explanation at all, but its quite late here
                    idhaafa? as in possessive ? but tht doesnt fit here :scratch: or u meant mawsuf/sifah?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: i am having difficulty with lesson 4

                      Originally posted by uncle umar View Post
                      salam.

                      im having some difficulty with lesson four. i dont seem to be grasping this concpet of predefinite articles i think. i dont understand why 2 words in a sentance would have the word "al" in it...

                      also, in lesson 3, we went over "al" and tanween "un" meaning "the" and "a" or "an"

                      yet i am seeing words with "al" infrint of is, but it still has "un" at the end of it, so i am confused now as to why the sentance still transilates as "the [insert word here]" instead of "the a [insert word here]" i know that sentance makes no sence but i dont understand why there is still a tanween at the end of the word.

                      im also noticing a dhammah at the end of most words in lesson 4. i dont understand why. how do you know when to put a dhammah and when not too?

                      i will re read the lessons and refresh my understand of what adjectives are in english, and pronounes, and see if that helps.

                      any help would be appriciated.

                      edit. looking back now, the problem is with the adjective phrase and equational sentences. if ive ever gone though a simmilar thing in english class or french then ive obveously forgotten.

                      like hatha talib. this is a sentence with no definite article. so this would be an adjective prase? or an equational sentence? or both?

                      hatha al talib is just a sentence correct?

                      al walad al talib would be a definite aricle thing right? thus an adjective phrase/ equational sentence?

                      i still dont understand why both words would have al on them though...
                      i dont get some of this post but having 'al' in front of a word makes it a defined/known thing, so it would be 'the'.

                      haatha taalib - undefined, so its 'this is a student' it wouldnt be an adjective sentence, and i dont really know what an equational sentence is, is it the same thing as a nominal sentence? :scratch:

                      haatha al taalib - thats defined - 'this is the student'

                      al walad al taalib, that wouldnt make sense on its own as its incomplete 'the boy/child student' it needs an adjective after it like 'mujtahid', the boy student is hardworking. that would turn it into an adjective phrase.

                      both words having 'al' make it defined, just like saying 'the girls father' or 'the red apple'...they would need something to complete the sentence in order for it to make sense...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: i am having difficulty with lesson 4

                        ^^agree :up:

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: i am having difficulty with lesson 4

                          [QUOTE=Meh!;4185772]
                          Originally posted by uncle umar View Post
                          oh that right, its default. i dident know that meant in every word lol. jazzakallah khair. ill post an example in one second, inshallah.
                          wa iyyak



                          if both the words are definite, means have 'al' begining, then that is not a sentence, rather a phrase.

                          albaytu kabeerun means, The house (is) big. (complete sentence)

                          BUT al baytu al kabeeru means>>> The big house (incomplete sentence/phrase)

                          see the difference?


                          Now try to translate this above one :d

                          At taalibu mujtahidun means The hardworking student (complete sentence)

                          so what, at-taalibu al-mujtahidun would mean??



                          This is same as above two, only difference is that its indefinite.





                          Adjectives come After Nouns: In Arabic: Adjectives/Description words come AFTER the Noun/object [in English it is the opposite].
                          i can transilate just fine.

                          what i dont understand is why do both words have Al?

                          all the examples i posted are from the lesson, i dident make them up.

                          so i was right that some are incomplete sentences causei was like:



                          البيتُ الكبيرُ

                          the house, the big?

                          cause they both have al in it, so i was like ?????

                          a definite word is one with al in it, correct?

                          also, even though they show as dhammas in this thread, in the lesson they are tanween. check it yourself if you dont belive me.

                          as for adjectives, i dont even know what that is lol. ask me about english grammar, ill tell you i know what a noun is lol. i learned how to speak english from kids at school, as i orriginally spoke french. thats why i understand some concepts of arabic easily, like feminine and how words are writte backwards against english ect ect.
                          Last edited by uncle umar; 13-02-11, 03:51 AM.
                          And the (faithful) slaves of the Most Gracious (All‚h) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness. (25:63)

                          O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a trade that will save you from a painful torment? (10) That you believe in All‚h and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW),and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of All‚h with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (11) (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Adn (Edn) Paradise; that is indeed the great success. (12)

                          JazakAllah khair for the duas but i would prefer duas for shahadah instead.

                          sponsor an orphan

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: i am having difficulty with lesson 4

                            Originally posted by Meh! View Post
                            oh man i dnt have an edit option

                            sorry uncle umar, my second one is wrong loooooooool ti should say, The student is hardworking , arghhhhhhh
                            yes. without Al it would be just "the hardworking student" correct? add in "al" and its "the student is hardworking"

                            add in hadha/ma/hal/dhalika and its that/what/is(question format)/this stident is hardworking.

                            correct?
                            And the (faithful) slaves of the Most Gracious (All‚h) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness. (25:63)

                            O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a trade that will save you from a painful torment? (10) That you believe in All‚h and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW),and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of All‚h with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (11) (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Adn (Edn) Paradise; that is indeed the great success. (12)

                            JazakAllah khair for the duas but i would prefer duas for shahadah instead.

                            sponsor an orphan

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: i am having difficulty with lesson 4

                              Ayt, i hope no one posts at the same time otherwise ima be Grrr!

                              Anyway,
                              If there are 2 words, and they both have 'al' or both have tanween.
                              Eg البيتُ الكبيرُ then that makes الكبيرُ an adjective & البيتُ the noun
                              Same with 'Baytun kabeerun' ( i hope i'm getting my grammar right...)

                              But if only the first word's got the 'al'
                              Eg البيتُ كبيرُ (Albaytu Kabeerun) then that's a full sentence, as the البيتُ is the 'noun' & the كبيرُ is the describing word.
                              but the translation would be 'The house is big' (it's similar yet different)

                              I hope you understand, ask me if you're confused about anything that i've just posted, & ill try to explain it in another way inshaaAllah.
                              "Treat people in such a way and live amongst them in such a manner that if you die they weep over you, and when you are alive, they crave for your company"

                              [Hadhrat Ali R.A]

                              Comment

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