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  • negatives

    salaam...

    I was never really sure about these in arabic...
    There is laa, lam and ma right?
    لا
    لم
    ما
    but I am not 100% sure on where and when u use each one...

    I *think* that laa is for present like if u said "laa afham" meaning I don't understand, and lam is for past so you would say "lam fahamtu" BUT I think I have heard that if u say laa before a verb it makes it into an instruction of saying "dont do that" maybe something like "laa iqra alkitaab" dont read the book. Is that right?
    and then what is ma? past or present? I have heard somewhere that that is the old fashioned one or something...but then I see other ppl use it.

    .: Rufaida :.
    .:Fa Firroo Ila-llaah:.
    http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...th_Silence.jpg
    “People praise you for what they suppose is in you,
    but you must blame your soul for what you know is in you.”
    ~ Ibn Atallah

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  • #2
    calling on egyptianmuslimah
    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
    دولة الإسلامية باقية





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    • #3
      yeah....and I 4got to say laysa...that means "not" doesnt it? and u have to put endings onto it depending on the subject?
      eg...laysna - we are not
      OR is it lasna without the yaa?
      & then does it go like...

      la(y?)shaa - she is not
      la(y?)shu - he is not
      la(y?)shum - they are not etc?

      & if u wanted that in the past what do u do? put kaan in it or something?

      eg... laysa hunaka sayyara amam bayty - there is not a car infront of my house

      would that go....
      kaan laysa hunaka sayyara amam bayty?
      or ma kaan hunaka or something?!?!?!?

      .: Rufaida :.
      .:Fa Firroo Ila-llaah:.
      http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...th_Silence.jpg
      “People praise you for what they suppose is in you,
      but you must blame your soul for what you know is in you.”
      ~ Ibn Atallah

      Ramadan Activities for Children
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      • #4
        sorry I only saw this today
        Insh a Allah will try and reply to it in a while
        Please Re-update your Signature

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        • #5
          as salam alykom
          Insh a Allah I will reply to the post one by one.
          About ليس
          laysa does change with the pronoun but in a different form anna

          let us take examples from Quran:
          وإن جاهداك على أن تشرك بى ما ليس لك به علم"
          سورة لقمان 15
          "But if they (both) strive with you to make you join in worship with Me othersthat of which you have no knowledge " (Quran 31:15). The underlined part is where ليس lays is acting.
          "Wa-in jahadaka AAala an tushrika bee ma laysa laka bihi AAilmun ". So ma laysa here would be of which u have no.

          ليست for feminine u use laysat
          ex: القطة ليست جملية
          Alqettah laysat jameelah
          The cat is not pretty

          السيارة ليست أمام المنزل
          Alasayarh laysat amael manzel
          The car is not in front of the house

          وقالت اليهود ليست النصارى على شئ
          البقرة 113
          "The Jews said that the Christians follow nothing (i.e. are not on the right religion);"
          "Waqalati alyahoodu laysati alnnasara AAala shay-in "
          The pronoun here is feminine (yahood) u may notice it from qalat, therefore we used laysat. The literal meaning is they are not.

          ليسوا they are not
          ليسوا سواء من أهل الكتاب
          آل عمران 113
          "Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture " (Quran 3:113)
          "Laysoo sawaan min ahli alkitabi "

          لستم you are not
          ولا تيمموا الخبيث منه تنفقون ولستم بأخذيه إلا أن تغمضو افيه
          البقرة 267
          "and do not aim at that which is bad to spend from it, (though) you would not accept it save if you close your eyes" (Quran 2: 267)
          "wala tayammamoo alkhabeetha minhu tunfiqoona walastum bi-akhitheehi illa an tughmidoo feehi "

          لست you are not
          ولا تقولوا لمن ألقى إليك السلام لست مؤمنا
          النساء 94
          "and say not to anyone who greets you (by embracing Islâm): "You are not a believer"; (Quran 4:94)

          Now when u use it in a question form it comes like this:
          ألست قادر على أن تحمل الطاولة
          Aren't u able to carry the table
          alsat qader a`ala-an tahmel ettawelah

          وإذ أخذ ربك من بنى آدم من ظهورهم ذريتهم وأشهدهم على أنفسهم ألست بربكم قالوا بلى شهدنا
          الأعراف 172
          "And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam’s loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "Yes! We testify," (Quran 7:172)

          "Wa-ith akhatha rabbuka min banee adama min thuhoorihim thurriyyatahum waashhadahum AAala anfusihim alastu birabbikum qaloo bala shahidna "

          أليس is another form of putting a question using lays: alaysa
          أسرع المشى أليس البيت قريب
          hurry up, isn't the house close?

          إن موعدهم الصبح أليس الصبح بقريب
          هود 81
          "will afflict her. Indeed, morning is their appointed time. Is not the morning near?" (Quran 11:81)
          "inna mawAAidahumu alssubhu alaysa alssubhu biqareebin"

          Well I guess this covers layasa
          Abu Mubarak u sure know how to keep me busy
          :D
          But I hope I did explain well
          Actually Mash a Allah I must say that anna is doing an excellent job here keep it up
          Please Re-update your Signature

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          • #6
            Re: negatives

            Mash a Allah amma
            where did u learn arabic I wonder?
            any way

            Originally posted by anna2000uk
            salaam...

            I was never really sure about these in arabic...
            There is laa, lam and ma right?
            لا
            لم
            ما
            but I am not 100% sure on where and when u use each one...

            I *think* that laa is for present like if u said "laa afham" meaning I don't understand, and lam is for past so you would say "lam fahamtu" BUT I think I have heard that if u say laa before a verb it makes it into an instruction of saying "dont do that" maybe something like "laa iqra alkitaab" dont read the book. Is that right?
            correct, except that u say: la taqra-a alkitab
            other wise the rest of the explantion is perfect

            and then what is ma? past or present? I have heard somewhere that that is the old fashioned one or something...but then I see other ppl use it.
            I just need to make some research on lam
            so be patient with me

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            • #7
              salaam alaykum :) jazakallah khayr for the laysa explanation ukhti :D
              I learn arabic @ an arabic school on sundays, well its on summer holidays @ trhe moment but usually i go every week :D
              .: Rufaida :.
              .:Fa Firroo Ila-llaah:.
              http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...th_Silence.jpg
              “People praise you for what they suppose is in you,
              but you must blame your soul for what you know is in you.”
              ~ Ibn Atallah

              Ramadan Activities for Children
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              • #8
                Mash a Allah they are doing an excellent job, may Allah reward them
                Here is full explanation
                negates something in the past just like لم
                As in Ayah 67 of Surat Al Emran:” ما كان إبراهيم يهوديا ولا نصرانيا ولكن كان حنيفا مسلما وما كان من المشركين”
                If u look at it it means Ibraheem was not. As if u would say لم يكن " Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian;"
                So to put it in a simple form:
                لا la is نهى do not do
                لم lam and ما ma negates something in the past: لم أقرأ ما قرأت lam aqra-a / ma qara-at
                لن is a challenge to one who would not be able to do something
                لن تستطيع أن تحمل الطاولة
                lan tastaee`a an tahmel atawellah
                you will not be able to carry the table
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                • #9
                  salaams,

                  heres my two cents:

                  The partical 'maa' is for negating the past tense verb...e.g. maa fahimtu (I didn't understand).

                  lam...is a jazm giving partical and it enters upon the present tense verb (mudhari e.g. yafhamu)...makes the last letters sakin...and it changes the meaning from present tense to the past and negates it just like 'maa'...so esencially lam afham means the same as maa fahimtu i.e. I did not understand. Howevere, there is a slight degree of emphasis in lam which is not in maa...like in terms of usage you would choose the simple maa fahimtu..when ur listener requires simple information...if the listener is in doubt or actuall arguing with u, you would use the lam afham...

                  Laa in arabic is two types...one that comes on the present tense verb and negates it...like laa yansuru...simply means 'he does not help'...this laa is not a governing agent i.e. it does not change the last letter of the verb.

                  The other laa is the 'nahi laa' the one for prohibition...this one like lam makes the last letter of the verb sakin..look at the difference.

                  1. laa tansuru..You do not help
                  2. Laa tansur...Don't help

                  laysa.....is a verb unlike the first three for they were all particals..

                  laysa enters upon the ismiyyah sentence (subject and predicate)...and alters the gramatical state of both...like if you had al-Muallimu Hadirun (the teacher is present)..then you add laysa to the front..it will now read laysa al-Mualimu haadiran (the teacher is not present)...Note the hadiran...before it was haadirun...so the last letter changed from dhammas to fathas...laysa did that..

                  ok then...hope that helped.

                  wassalaam,

                  Yusuf
                  LearnArabicOnline.com << Your source for detailed language tutorials. Updated regularly.

                  www.ShariahProgram.ca - Learn Arabic, Tafseer, Fiqh, Mantiq and Balagha twice as quickly and more thoroughly than most Darul Ulooms, studying from home, part-time!

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                  • #10
                    So let me get this straight, you use lam with present tense verbs to negate them, You use maa with past tense verbs to negate them. As for the Laa's, you lost me on that one. How is it different from lam since they both use the present tense form of the verb???

                    Peace
                    3:103 And hold fast, all together, unto the bond with God, and do not draw apart from one another. And remember the blessings which God has bestowed upon you: how, when you were enemies, He brought your hearts together, so that through His blessing you became brethren; and [how, when] you were on the brink of a fiery abyss. He saved you from it. In this way God makes clear His messages unto you, so that you might find guidance.

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                    • #11
                      jazakallahu khayrun 4 the explanation...i think i understand it but it is kind of hard
                      so with lam you use the present tense part of the verb after lam but it still means it in the past? i think i understand the maa and lam then but laa is a bit confusing how the last bit changes.
                      how do u know what it changes to? is it always having a U on the end for the present and without that for the command? or do u just use the present form of the verb after it for the present and the imperitive for the command...
                      eg.... laa aktub - i am not writing
                      laa uktub - dont write
                      something like that?
                      and with laysa i dont get how it changes the grammar...is it to do with cases, like accusative and dative n all those? i hope not cuz those confuse me so much
                      anyway sorry about all the questions :p
                      .: Rufaida :.
                      .:Fa Firroo Ila-llaah:.
                      http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...th_Silence.jpg
                      “People praise you for what they suppose is in you,
                      but you must blame your soul for what you know is in you.”
                      ~ Ibn Atallah

                      Ramadan Activities for Children
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by peace2u
                        So let me get this straight, you use lam with present tense verbs to negate them, You use maa with past tense verbs to negate them. As for the Laa's, you lost me on that one. How is it different from lam since they both use the present tense form of the verb???

                        Peace

                        salaams,

                        ok...here I'm pasting some notes (we use for our classes http://www.shariahprogram.ca/ )about two negation particals..one is the lam which is being discussed about in this thread...the other is lan...both particals enter upon the present tense verb...alter the endings and also alter the meaning...lan makes it future negative..emphasized i.e. NEVER, while lam...takes it back into the past...as for the changes that occur at the end of the verb...YES it is cases !? we're talking about..nomanative, acusative etc :S...it really isn't that difficult to understand cases (grammatical states).

                        anyway..check out the post...after this I'll give a very clear intro to grammatical states...please ask if its not clear...


                        Rejection of the Imperfect verb via the Partical ?lam?

                        Adding ?lam? before the imperfect verb will likewise cause two types of changes:

                        Meaning change:

                        1. The positive meaning will become negative.
                        2. The imperfect verb will be striped of ALL of its present and future tenses, thus taking it back into the past tense.
                        3. There will be a slight emphasis in the negation.

                        This third aspect of the meaning is what differentiates these ?laam? tables in terms of meaning from the simple-past negative tables we discussed earlier. The emphasis here is not as profound as what is brought about by the partical ?lan?. Consider in English the difference in usage between ?didn?t? and ?did not?. In spoken English one will tend to prefer the abbreviated version over the fuller one in normal circumstances. However if the listener is in doubt regarding the non-occurrence of a given verb or actually thinks the verb occurred whereas it didn?t, this situation would call for a more stern use of language. In English apart from a change in tone of voice one would normally tend to speak using un-abbreviated words (did not). So, in order to express the difference between maa nasara and lam yansur, in spoken English one may translate the first as ?he didn?t help? and the second would be ?he did not help?.

                        Word change:

                        1. the five conjugations that ended in dhammah will now end in sukoon.
                        2. from the remaining 9 conjugations, all except the two feminine plurals will loose their final nuns.
                        3. no change will occur in the two feminine plurals. The final nun from these two conjugations will NOT drop.

                        The tables are as follows:

                        1. lam yaf?al- active rejection of the imperfect verb (past tense).
                        2. lam yuf?al- passive rejection of the imperfect verb (past tense).

                        Note:
                        The discussion surrounding the Nahw (grammar) of these verbs has been omitted here due to it not being a direct concern of Sarf. Rarely will we be delving into grammatical states etc. when explaining gardaans. This matter has been thoroughly covered elsewhere.
                        LearnArabicOnline.com << Your source for detailed language tutorials. Updated regularly.

                        www.ShariahProgram.ca - Learn Arabic, Tafseer, Fiqh, Mantiq and Balagha twice as quickly and more thoroughly than most Darul Ulooms, studying from home, part-time!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by anna2000uk
                          jazakallahu khayrun 4 the explanation...i think i understand it but it is kind of hard
                          so with lam you use the present tense part of the verb after lam but it still means it in the past? i think i understand the maa and lam then but laa is a bit confusing how the last bit changes.
                          how do u know what it changes to? is it always having a U on the end for the present and without that for the command? or do u just use the present form of the verb after it for the present and the imperitive for the command...
                          eg.... laa aktub - i am not writing
                          laa uktub - dont write
                          something like that?
                          and with laysa i dont get how it changes the grammar...is it to do with cases, like accusative and dative n all those? i hope not cuz those confuse me so much
                          anyway sorry about all the questions :p

                          ok heres the intro for grammatical states....read it ten times if u have too...its very important...again its pasted from some notes I prepared myself for our classes:

                          2 Grammatical States

                          2.1 Introduction

                          Human beings experience emotional states based on interaction with one another. People make us happy, angry, and sad etc. These states are then reflected on our faces by our facial expressions i.e. smiles, frowns etc. Arabic words behave in a similar fashion. They enter grammatical states because of interaction with surrounding words. These ?grammatical states? are then reflected on the last letter of the word. Unlike human emotions, grammatical states in Arabic are just four:

                          ??? - the nominative case.
                          ??? - the accusative case.
                          ?? - the genitive case.
                          ??? - the jussive case.

                          We see this in the English language to a very restricted degree in pronouns. Take for example the three variations of the third person masculine pronoun; he, him and his or for the feminine; she, her and her, for the second person masculine; you, you and your and for the first person; I, me and my.

                          The reason why the same meaning is being conveyed using three different words is to reflect grammatical state. When the pronoun is intended to be subject of the verb, ?he? or ?she? is used. Likewise for object, one must use ?him? or ?her?. In the English language this discussion is restricted to pronouns. For nouns, regardless of how the noun is used, there will be no difference in the way the noun is pronounced. In Arabic this process is extended to ALL nouns.


                          2.2 Reflection of Grammatical States ? ?????

                          The name given to this process is ?????. Therefore, ????? is the process by which grammatical states are reflected on the last letter of words by change in vowelling or lettering, either explicitly or assumed.

                          The need for this occurs because in Arabic, we have no other way of determining whether a given noun is being made the subject of the verb or the object, or whether it is in the possessive case. There is no rule in Arabic which states the subject HAS to come before the object. A verb followed by two nouns can have any of the following three possibilities:

                          1. The first is subject and second is object.
                          2. Vice versa.
                          3. The two nouns together form a possessive phrase

                          For instance, if the verb ?????? (hit) is followed by the two nouns ????? (boy) and ????? (a person?s name), the sentence can have three possible meanings:
                          1. A boy hit Zaid.
                          2. Zaid hit a boy.
                          3. Zaid?s boy hit? (Someone else)!

                          It is apparent from the above that some sort of system of reflection is needed to determine the intended structure while excluding the other two. In Arabic this is done by giving the last letter a distinct vowelling or lettering.

                          Before moving further it is important to know which of the three parts of speech experience these states and reflection process, and which do not. This is important because every word will have some sort of ending including state-less words. There is a sub-set of words that do not enter grammatical states and hence there endings have no grammatical significance. One may liken them to a ?stoic? person who remains emotionless. When confronted with this state-less type of word, one should be fully aware of its state-less nature and not assume grammatical meaning from the ending.




                          sorry if the arabic is not comming out so good...word format I guess...it does that...should be ok, insha Allah

                          Yusuf
                          [email protected]
                          LearnArabicOnline.com << Your source for detailed language tutorials. Updated regularly.

                          www.ShariahProgram.ca - Learn Arabic, Tafseer, Fiqh, Mantiq and Balagha twice as quickly and more thoroughly than most Darul Ulooms, studying from home, part-time!

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                          • #14
                            I hope I'm not being a bother but can we have examples of when and where to use lam, laa, ma, and lan please?? I think it will help me a lot if I see them being used in sentenses. Thanks




                            Peace
                            3:103 And hold fast, all together, unto the bond with God, and do not draw apart from one another. And remember the blessings which God has bestowed upon you: how, when you were enemies, He brought your hearts together, so that through His blessing you became brethren; and [how, when] you were on the brink of a fiery abyss. He saved you from it. In this way God makes clear His messages unto you, so that you might find guidance.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              jazakallahu 4 this explanation....yeah i think i might have to read it 10 times b4 I get it tho lol :p
                              cases just confuse me in arabic, i dunno why cuz in german they are not that hard. insha allah i will finally get 2 understand it tho!
                              .: Rufaida :.
                              .:Fa Firroo Ila-llaah:.
                              http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...th_Silence.jpg
                              “People praise you for what they suppose is in you,
                              but you must blame your soul for what you know is in you.”
                              ~ Ibn Atallah

                              Ramadan Activities for Children
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