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Former Shiah refutes Mot'ah marriage (Temporary Marriage)

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  • Divine Love
    replied
    Re: Former Shiah refutes Mot'ah marriage (Temporary Marriage)

    Originally posted by kamal804 View Post
    all muslims (sunnies and shi'as) claim that their religion is the most perfect in the world. i have a question: islam with a solution for whom that have not access to their wives or cant marry, is more perfect or without that solution?

    please dont say muta is Zina because it means that the massenger (pboh) has allowed to muslims to do it at least for a while.
    Yeah, That question would be the last bullet to the dead body of sunni claim that mut'ah is haram.

    Leave a comment:


  • kamal804
    replied
    Re: Former Shiah refutes Mot'ah marriage (Temporary Marriage)

    all muslims (sunnies and shi'as) claim that their religion is the most perfect in the world. i have a question: islam with a solution for whom that have not access to their wives or cant marry, is more perfect or without that solution?

    please dont say muta is Zina because it means that the massenger (pboh) has allowed to muslims to do it at least for a while.

    Leave a comment:


  • Medievalist
    replied
    Re: Former Shiah refutes Mot'ah marriage (Temporary Marriage)

    Originally posted by Divine Love View Post
    Ending up with these insulting words shows that you have nothing to proove your false ideas.
    Why you being like that for? Help a brother out. I aint got into this lil debate with you, I just want a number man and some guidelines on the going rate.

    Does your sister do it? How much is she?

    Leave a comment:


  • Divine Love
    replied
    So Ali never forbaded Mut'ah. Because It had been halal at the time of Prophet and as I explained before, it is even mentioned in Quran in sura Nesa that Mut'ah was halal and as a kind of marriage. No one had the right to change the order of Allah based on his own personal assumptions or desires.

    So Umar had no right to change the order of Allah and commit such a bid'a.
    Last edited by Divine Love; 04-06-08, 01:22 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Divine Love
    replied
    Re: Former Shiah refutes Mot'ah marriage (Temporary Marriage)

    You don't have to repeat it.
    As I said before, you can't prove what you claim using Sahih Bukhari as reference.
    Because we don't consider that a reliable source.
    BUT we can use it to disprove you because you accept Sahih Bukhari

    Ali (Allayhesalam) had never said that Mut'ah was Haram.
    The tradition that you've posted twice is NOT authentice and fabricated.
    I don't know you even bothered to try the link I provided for you or not.
    So I post it here:

    Reply IV - Sunni and Shi'a traditions confirm that Imam 'Ali (as) believed that Mut'ah was halaal.
    We should also point out that the idea that Imam 'Ali (as) believed that Mut'ah was haram, as the Khayber hadeeth suggest, contradicts basic facts of history. The following hadeeth is present in important Sunni commentaries:

    Ali (RA) said: If it were not for Umar forbidding Mutah, no one would commit (the sin of) fornication except a Shaqi (a wretched person."

    We have quoted the above reference from books belonging to both Sects, they were:

    1. Authoritative Sunni source Tafseer Durre Manthur Volume 2 page 140, Ayat Mut'ah
    2. Authoritative Shi'a source Tahdeeb al Ahkam Volume 2 page 186, Masala Mut'ah

    Both sources quote these words of Maula 'Ali (as) We see that Maula 'Ali (as) held Umar personally liable for all future acts of Zina, hence any narration where Imam 'Ali (as) said that Mut'ah is haram is to be dis-guarded.

    In Tafsfeer Durr al-Manthur, we also read:

    Narrated Abdulrazaq and Abu Dawoud in (book) Nasikh and narrated ibn Jareer from al-Hakam that he was asked whether the verse on Mut'ah has been abrogated, he said: "No, Ali (ra) said that if it were not for Umar forbidding it, no one would commit (the sin) of fornication except the wretched (Shaqi; an utmost wrongdoer).”
    Tafseer Dur al-Manthur, Volume 2 page 486

    All the narrators of this tradition are authentic. Muhammad bin al-Muthna: Imam Dhahabi called him Thiqa.
    Muhammad bin Jafar: Dhahabi says that he was one of the most accurate narrators.
    Shu'ba bin al-Hajaj: According to Imam Dhahabi he is Ameer ul Mumineen in hadith.
    Al-Hakam bin Utebah al-Kindi: According to Imam Dhahabi he is thiqah and 'sahib sunnah'.


    Reply V - The Sunni 'ulama have themselves rejected the notion that Mut'ah was made haraam at Khayber

    Beyond this, we also see that the Sunni scholars have rejected the narration of Bukhari and Muslim wherein Mut'ah was banned on the Day of Khayber. We shall rely on the following authentic Sunni sources as proof:

    Umdatul Qari Volume 8 page 311
    Zaad al Maad Volume 3 page 403 Ghazwa Khayber
    Fathul Bari Volume 9 page 168
    Irshad al Sari, fi Sharh Bukhari
    Rowz Al Anf vol. 4 pg. 59 (printed 1391 AH)
    Seera Halabiyah vol.3 pg.45

    We read in Umdatul Qari:

    وقال ابن عبد البر وذكر النهي عن المتعة يوم خيبر غلط وقال السهيلي النهي عن المتعة يوم خيبر لا يعرفه أحد من أهل السير ورواة الأثر

    Ibn Abdulbar said: 'Prohibition of Mutah on the day of Khaybar is wrong'. al-Sehli said: 'The prohibition of Mutah on day of Khaybar, no one amongst the historians and narrators know about it.'

    We read in Zaad al Maad

    والصحيح : أن المتعة إنما حرمت عام الفتح

    "The statement prohibiting Mut'ah during the victory of Makka is more Sahih."
    Zaad al Maad, Volume 3 page 403

    In Rowz Al Anf and Seera Halabiyah, it is said that Suhaili commented:

    This is something that no one involved in the Seerah and the history of Allah's Messenger (S) has ever acknowledged (that Mut'ah was prohibited on Khayber).

    In 'Irshad Al Sari' the commentary of Bukhari, Sharh al Mawaahib Luduniyah by Zarqani vol.2 pg. 239, and Sharh al Muwatta vol.2 pg. 24, Abu Omar's opinion on the prohibition of Mut'ah at Khayber are cited:

    This is absolutely wrong. Temporary marriage never took place in Khayber.

    In various Sunni books, Abu Awaanah is quoted as writing in his Sahih:

    وقال أبو عوانة في صحيحه سمعت أهل العلم يقولون : معنى حديث علي أنه نهى يوم خيبر عن لحوم الحمر ، وأما المتعة فسكت عنها

    "I have heard scholars saying that the tradition related of Ali only talked of the prohibition of the eating of the meat of domestic asses and there was no mention of Mut'ah, and the tradition is silent on that matter".
    1. Fathul Bari, Volume 9 page 145
    2. Neel al Autaar, Volume 6 page 146
    3. Sunan Baihaqi, Volume 7 pageg 201
    4. Subul Islam, Volume 4 page 485
    5. Zaad al Maad Volume 1 page 443

    Do the Wahabi 'ulama consider themselves more knowledge than these scholars?
    Last edited by Divine Love; 04-06-08, 01:04 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Saif-Uddin
    replied
    Originally posted by Divine Love View Post
    To begin with, for the Ahl as-Sunnah to cite the words of Imam 'Ali (as) from Sahih al Bukhari in order to convince the Shi'a is indeed, very stupid. It goes against the rules of Sunni / Shi'a polemics. Its like a Christian seeking to mock Muslims for rejecting the divinity of Christ by citing the Bible as their evidence! We do not accept Bukhari because of the lies he perpetuated against the Prophet (s) and his family; we reference it because Sunnis accept it, not because we accept it ourselves. Therefore, when enemies of the Ahl al-Bayt (as) present arguments from a work that we already consider being rife with forgeries and lies, it is of no interest to us.

    Moreover:

    Reply I - History proves that this tradition is fabricated
    Reply II - This narration is from az Zuhri the Nasibi so it can be rejected
    Reply III - The narrators of this tradition are weak
    Reply IV - Sunni and Shi'a traditions confirm that Imam 'Ali (as) believed that Mut'ah was halaal.
    Reply V - The Sunni 'ulama have themselves rejected the notion that Mut'ah was made haraam at Khayber

    Here are the descriptions for each reply.
    http://www.answering-ansar.org/answe...h/en/chap9.php

    Sorry! you proved NOTHING.
    Your arrogance is Disturbing, the Hadith Quoted from the second Most authentic book on earth, Saheeh Al-Bukhari, states that Rasulullah :saw: said that Muta marriage is Prohibited/Forbidden,

    now which part of that did you not understand?

    and so now your saying that Ali(ra) contradicted himself when he stated the verdict of Rasulullah :saw:? :eek3:

    your replys are all your own concoctions, I confirmed with reference to Saheeh Al-Bukhari, that the hadith about the Prohibition of Muta by Rasulullah :saw: exists and is authentic,

    Saheeh Al-Bukhari does not contain any Fabrications, but seeing as your another twisted Shia stating this, I'm not surprised ...

    you have been Proven wrong, Muta Marriage has been Prohibited by the Messenger of Allah Ta'ala, Muhammad :saw:

    I repeat the Hadith in Saheeh Al-Bukhari, again ....

    Volume 5, Book 59, Number 527:

    Narrated 'Ali bin Abi Talib:

    On the day of Khaibar, Allah's Apostle :saw: forbade the Mut'a (i.e. temporary marriage) and the eating of donkey-meat.

    http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.527

    who forbade it? Rasulullah :saw:

    hence it is Forbidden.

    If you want to have one night stands and commit zina and try out women, then thats your problem, but have the decency not to make filthy accusations against Islam.
    Last edited by Saif-Uddin; 04-06-08, 12:40 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Divine Love
    replied
    Re: Former Shiah refutes Mot'ah marriage (Temporary Marriage)

    Ending up with these insulting words shows that you have nothing to proove your false ideas.

    Leave a comment:


  • Medievalist
    replied
    Re: Former Shiah refutes Mot'ah marriage (Temporary Marriage)

    Divine Love:

    are shia women allowed to do muta with nonshia men?

    How much do they charge in Birmingham? ne ideas?

    you got a number for me, er . . . its for me mate. ;)

    Leave a comment:


  • Ibnkuldun
    replied
    Re: Former Shiah refutes Mot'ah marriage (Temporary Marriage)

    OH man, Mota is not allowed???

    Oh dear, i'm going to need more of an incentive to change to shiaism now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Divine Love
    replied
    Re: Former Shiah refutes Mot'ah marriage (Temporary Marriage)

    Originally posted by RazielTemp View Post
    Typical Shia deceit ...

    http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...ml#005.059.527

    READ ...

    Volume 5, Book 59, Number 527:

    Narrated 'Ali bin Abi Talib:

    On the day of Khaibar, Allah's Apostle :saw: forbade the Mut'a (i.e. temporary marriage) and the eating of donkey-meat.

    end of.

    the Shia's who practice Muta/Temporary Marriage, are Zani's Zaniyas/Adulterers ...

    regards.
    To begin with, for the Ahl as-Sunnah to cite the words of Imam 'Ali (as) from Sahih al Bukhari in order to convince the Shi'a is indeed, very stupid. It goes against the rules of Sunni / Shi'a polemics. Its like a Christian seeking to mock Muslims for rejecting the divinity of Christ by citing the Bible as their evidence! We do not accept Bukhari because of the lies he perpetuated against the Prophet (s) and his family; we reference it because Sunnis accept it, not because we accept it ourselves. Therefore, when enemies of the Ahl al-Bayt (as) present arguments from a work that we already consider being rife with forgeries and lies, it is of no interest to us.

    Moreover:

    Reply I - History proves that this tradition is fabricated
    Reply II - This narration is from az Zuhri the Nasibi so it can be rejected
    Reply III - The narrators of this tradition are weak
    Reply IV - Sunni and Shi'a traditions confirm that Imam 'Ali (as) believed that Mut'ah was halaal.
    Reply V - The Sunni 'ulama have themselves rejected the notion that Mut'ah was made haraam at Khayber

    Here are the descriptions for each reply.
    http://www.answering-ansar.org/answe...h/en/chap9.php

    Sorry! you proved NOTHING.

    Leave a comment:


  • Saif-Uddin
    replied
    Re: Former Shiah refutes Mot'ah marriage (Temporary Marriage)

    Originally posted by Divine Love View Post
    More Evidence for permissibility of Mut'ah

    We read in Sahih Bukhari, Book of "Tafseer of Prophet":
    Narrated 'Imran bin Husain:
    "The Verse of Mut'a was revealed in Allah's Book, so we did it at the time of Allah's
    Apostle, and nothing was revealed in Quran to make it illegal, nor did the Prophet
    prohibit it till he died. But a man (who regarded it illegal) expressed what his own
    mind suggested."
    Sahih Bukhari [Arabic], Kitab al Tafseer, Tradition 4559
    Typical Shia deceit ...

    http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...ml#005.059.527

    READ ...

    Volume 5, Book 59, Number 527:

    Narrated 'Ali bin Abi Talib:

    On the day of Khaibar, Allah's Apostle :saw: forbade the Mut'a (i.e. temporary marriage) and the eating of donkey-meat.

    end of.

    the Shia's who practice Muta/Temporary Marriage, are Zani's Zaniyas/Adulterers ...

    regards.
    Last edited by Saif-Uddin; 03-06-08, 11:31 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Divine Love
    replied
    Re: Former Shiah refutes Mot'ah marriage (Temporary Marriage)

    More Evidence for permissibility of Mut'ah

    We read in Sahih Bukhari, Book of "Tafseer of Prophet":
    Narrated 'Imran bin Husain:
    "The Verse of Mut'a was revealed in Allah's Book, so we did it at the time of Allah's
    Apostle, and nothing was revealed in Quran to make it illegal, nor did the Prophet
    prohibit it till he died. But a man (who regarded it illegal) expressed what his own
    mind suggested."
    Sahih Bukhari [Arabic], Kitab al Tafseer, Tradition 4559

    Leave a comment:


  • Enigma Dreamer
    replied
    Re: Former Shiah refutes Mot'ah marriage (Temporary Marriage)

    Originally posted by Peacenik View Post
    I hope the Shia in question also denounces the slanderous accusations by his sect (towards the Sahaba (ra) and the Wives (ra) of the Beloved Messenger (saaw)....)
    The brother is no longer a shia but a sunni, don't you read?

    Leave a comment:


  • Divine Love
    replied
    Re: Former Shiah refutes Mot'ah marriage (Temporary Marriage)

    Originally posted by OBL View Post
    you people have no logic.
    You're not going to change anything by labeling people like that
    if you have logic, present your reason for Mut'ah being haram.

    Leave a comment:


  • OBL
    replied
    Re: Former Shiah refutes Mot'ah marriage (Temporary Marriage)

    confront the strong logics of Shia.
    you people have no logic.

    Leave a comment:

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