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Lu'matul I'tiqad explained by Sheikh Mashhoor al-Suhaibi

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  • Lu'matul I'tiqad explained by Sheikh Mashhoor al-Suhaibi

    https://t.me/LumatulItiqad_SheikhMashhoor

  • #2
    For those without Telegram: https://archive.org/details/lumatul-Iitiqaad

    Online classes every Monday and Thursday 6:45PM Makkah Time:
    http://mixlr.com/online-islamic-class

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by notEVOLVED View Post
      For those without Telegram: https://archive.org/details/lumatul-Iitiqaad

      Online classes every Monday and Thursday 6:45PM Makkah Time:
      http://mixlr.com/online-islamic-class
      ​​​​​​

      The link for the online classes turns up a page saying "page not found".
      "When you want to cry, laugh.
      If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Bolt View Post

        ​​​​​​

        The link for the online classes turns up a page saying "page not found".
        Incorrect hyperlink. Try this:

        https://mixlr.com/online-islamic-class

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by notEVOLVED View Post

          Incorrect hyperlink. Try this:

          https://mixlr.com/online-islamic-class
          Yeah, works. Neat.
          "When you want to cry, laugh.
          If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

          Comment


          • #6
            Lesson 4 is up.

            Comment


            • #7
              Great Jazakallah khayr. I’m going through this book
              with shaykh Ismail but it’s always good to have other classes for reference too, so I’ll defo check it out Jazakallah khayr
              https://islamicgemsandpearls.wordpress.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by notEVOLVED View Post
                For those without Telegram: https://archive.org/details/lumatul-Iitiqaad

                Online classes every Monday and Thursday 6:45PM Makkah Time:
                http://mixlr.com/online-islamic-class
                A number of Salafi oriented commentaries of Lum'ah al-I'tiqad currently on the market, which have been translated into English and other languages, do not adhere to this concept of respecting the authors intentions. What one ends up with is a book which used to contain the original Hanbali-Athari aqidah, that is changed and distorted through its commentary and is eventually presented as Salafi aqidah. To confuse the general reader even more, even the term Athari 'aqidah is hijacked to make the work appear authentic, although in reality the Athari 'aqidah is not synonymous with Salafi aqidah.

                - Shaykh Yusuf bin Sadiq al-Hanbali

                Sheikh Mashoor al-Suhaibi is a Karrami innovator who is distorting not only Imam Ibn Qudamah (d. 620 H)'s works but the very Qur'an itself! This al-Suhaibi is teaching Kufr not Aqeedah!

                Distortion of the Qur'an

                Al-Suhaibi quotes Imam Ibn Qudamah quoting the saying of Allah:


                لَيْسَ كَمِثْلِهِ شَيْءٌ ۖ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْبَصِيرُ

                Laqysa KaMithlihi Shayun wa Huwa as-Sami-ul-Basir

                Lit: (He is) Not like (the) likeness (of) a thing and he (is) the Hearer the Seer.

                Translation/Interpretation: There is nothing like Him. He is the Hearing, the Seeing.

                (Qur'an Surah Ash'Shura, Verse 11, Saheeh International, Abdul Haleem, Dr. Mustafa Khattab translate/interpret it the same.)
                He translated the above as "we have not seen him" - see 20:10 onwards on the audio to the first lecture - and he backs it up beforehand by saying that the reason why we cannot describe Allah is lack of information on him - the Ayat does not state that! The Ayat states "There is nothing like him", not that we cannot imagine him due to not seeing him - how on earth does he that from this verse?!

                I can apply this mubtadi's logic with anyone I have not seen but have vague descriptions of (as later he says that Allah describes the affirmation of his attributes in detail, while any negation is a general negation - which literally contradicts the verse above where he says he is not like anything else!) I could even apply the description to him! I know he has the limbs of a hand, eyes and a face etc. But I don't know how his hands, eyes and face are. What about an Alien creature? "I do not know how its hands, eyes and face are" etc.

                (Also note the context before the verse and the use of this verse by RasulAllah to negate that Allah can have parents - this verse can be applied to any human/created description even abstract non-physical concepts like having parents!)

                Distortion of the work of an Athari (one who does not interpret such verses, consigning both the howness and interpretation to Allah)

                Now if this innovator was correct in what he says, that we should not emphasis negation of similarity between the creator and the creation, then why does Imam Ibn Qudamah bring this at the very beginning of his work? Why doesn't he affirm the "detailed descriptions first"? (Also note that when he does affirm the Ayat al-Mutashabihat, he quotes them verbatim without any Tafsir (interpretation) as is the method of Ahlul Hadith, passing over them as he came, believing in them without interpreting.) Why mislead us by containing the negation of similarity first?

                Because Ibn Qudamah was one of the 'innovators'! He negated any similarity between Allah and his creation, and quotes in that very work he consigns the knowledge of these to Allah and he brings the statement of Imam Ahmad saying they interpret the attribute Bi La Kayfa Wa La Ma'na (without saying how and without meaning), before he even quotes Imam Ahmad negating limits for Allah! And Imam Ahmad then quotes the verse of the Qur'an, Surah Shura Verse 11.

                Think about the quote of Umar Radiyallahu An he brought - why would Umar Radiyallahu An tell us not to think about Allah too much, but to concentrate on his signs - because he doesn't want us to start likening him to the creation as we are limited creatures and all we have seen our entire lives are the creation so that is all we can imagine! A blind person cannot imagine what it means to see, his entire though process of how things are, are based on his experiences!

                See this thread for detailed discussion on how Ibn Qudamah and the Early Hanabila's works (including the one the Hashwi is doing a commentary on) contradicts corporealism, based off of the work of a real Hanbali alim, not some Najdi anthropomophist.

                Would Imam Ahmad say the following if he was, as the innovator claims, not negating that the creator is absolutely unlike the creation?


                Imam Abu Abd Allah Ahmad bin Hanbal, may Allah have mercy on him, said concerning the saying of the Prophet Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam 'Verily Allah yanzilu to the heaven of this world' and 'Verily, Allah will be seen on the Day of Resurrection' and what is similar to these narrations:

                "We believe in it and testify to the truthfulness of it, without explaining 'how' and without 'meaning', nor do we reject anything of it. We know that whatever the Messenger Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam came with is the truth; we do not reject anything from the Messenger of Allah Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam, nor do we describe Allah with more than he described himself with, without any limit nor any boundaries. "There is nothing equal to him, and He is al-Sami' al-Basi' We say as He said and describe Him with what he described Himself with nor do we go beyond this. The descriptions of those who attempt to describe him cannot grasp Him. We believe in all of the Qur'an, the muhkam and mutashabih. We do not reject any of His attributes due to them appearing repulsive, we do not go beyond the Qur'an and the narrations and we do not know how to understand them, except through the truthfulness of the Messenger Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam and the affirmation of the Qur'an"

                - Lum'ah al-Itiqad of Imam Ibn Qudamah
                Also mentioned by Ibn Qudamah in Dhamm al-Ta'wil Hadith 33, Qadi Abu Ya'la (d. 458 H) in Ibtal al-Taw'wilat vol.1, no.9, and Ibn Battah (d.387 H) in al-Ibanah vol.7 Hadith 5, who reports it via Abdullah bin Hanbal instead of Hanbal bin Ishaq.
                A man asked Imam Ahmad concerning the statement: 'Verily Allah yanzilu (trn: 'descends') every night to the heaven of this world and he (i.e. Imam Ahmad) said: 'this hadith is authentic.' The man asked 'does His Qudrah (power) or he himself yanzilu(trn: 'descends')? Imam Ahmad responded: 'Woe to you, what is this! Pass the hadith on as it has come'

                - Al Tabsirah fi Usul al-Din p.146 of Imam al-Shirazi (d. 468 H), also in Ibtal al-Ta'wilat, Hadith 260 by Qadi Abu Yala etc. And the statement 'pass over them, as they come' with regards to the attributes is also narrated by al-Marudhi in Ibn Battah's al-Ibanah vol.7, page 253.
                We affirm Allah has the sifat of Yad, Wajh, etc. without how, without meaning, without limit and without boundaries. We do not comprehend or imagine them, above all we do not interpret them. This disproves the views of the Hashwi 'Atharis' of the University of Madinah.

                And we do not deny and reject his attributes due to finding them repulsive i.e. making a specific interpretation of the attributes (E.g. saying his Yad is his power etc.). This disproves the Jahmi 'Ash'ari' of al-Azhar University.

                Ahlus Sunnah (Maturidi, Ash'ari or Athari) do not liken Allah to his creation, as does the Karrami Mashoor al-Suhaibi. Nor do we negate his attributes, as does this man. The Hanabila would not even interpret those verses! They would simply pass over them, whilst the Ash'aris and Maturidis permitted interpretation of the verse without Ta'til.

                How does Imam Ibn Qudamah understand the attributes of the ayat al-mutashabihat?
                This and others similar to it from those whose chain of narration are authentic, and whose reporters are acceptable; We believe in it, and do not reject it, nor deny it, nor do we interpret it with an interpretation which contradicts Zahirah (its apparent wording) (ولا نتأولە بتأويل يخالف ظاهره)

                - Lum'ah al-Itiqad of Imam Ibn Qudamah
                What do the Hanabila mean by "we do not interpret it with an interpretation that contradicts its Zahir" - they mean they do not interpret it at all!

                "We do not need to know the meanings of what was intended by Allah, the Exalted, from his Attributes, Mighty and Majestic (is he). Indeed He did not intend regarding them any action, nor did he connect to them any responsibility aside from believing in them. The belief in them, without knowledge of their meaning is possible; and indeed belief with ignorance is correct. Certainly, Allah the Exalted, ordered belief in His angels, His books and his messengers, and what is revealed to them; even if we do not know from that except the names."

                - Tahrim al-Nazar of Ibn Qudamah, p.51
                "And the correct opinion is that the mutashibih ayat that have been revealed concerning the Attributes of Allah, Glorified is He, are obligatory to believe in and it is prohibited to seek their interpretation, such as the statement of Allah, the exalted: 'al-Rahman did istawa over the Throne' 'Rather his Yad are widely outstretched', '...which I created with My Yadayy...', 'And there will remain the Wajh of your Lord,', 'Sailing under Our Ayun' and similar to them. The Salaf, may Allah have mercy upon them, agreed on affirming them, passing over them as they came, and leaving the interpration of them. For indeed Allah, Glorified is He, has censured the seekers of interpretation and paired them, in His censuring, with those who seek discord and named them 'the people of deviation'"

                - Rawdah al-Nazir of Ibn Qudamah, vol 1, page 215.
                He stated clearly when explaining the Sifat of Nuzul:
                "And this and what resembles it; then taking al-Nuzul to be descending to empty space, occupying space and movement, is kufr. To carry it upon zahirihi (its apparent wording) is permissible."

                - Al-Usul al-Mujarradah of Ibn al-Banna (d. 471 H), p.47
                Not knowing arabic is not an excuse, you cannot allow people to start blatantly twisting the Arabic of the Qur'an right in front of you!
                Take your Aqeedah from Surah Ikhlas. If you really need to study a text, then confirm you are not learning it from a deviant beforehand.

                If this man cannot even honestly convey to you the meaning of a verse of the Qur'an, then why would anyone think he can teach you Aqeedah derived from it?
                Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 15-10-20, 02:48 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post
                  If this man cannot even honestly convey to you the meaning of a verse of the Qur'an, then why would anyone think he can teach you Aqeedah derived from it?
                  Meh. Aren't you the guy who thinks evolution is true, twisting ayaat to support your stance? It's ironic seeing you speak about 'twisting' of verses.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by notEVOLVED View Post

                    Meh. Aren't you the guy who thinks evolution is true, twisting ayaat to support your stance? It's ironic seeing you speak about 'twisting' of verses.
                    I do not twist any ayat in whatever I believe regarding evolution.

                    I believe Adam Alayhis Salam was made from clay in Jannah, he was not born to any parents, he has no parents, he was created by Allah with his Yad in a miraculous* act, he was not formed in a womb, he was created as an adult. His wife was created from his rib. And both Adam Alayhis Salam and his wife Hawa are our father and mother, we are all descendants of them - every single human being on the planet.

                    I do not go beyond the Qur'an and Sunnah.

                    Now you have made a claim, the onus is upon you to prove it as you accused me of twisting an Ayat. I gave you clear evidence he twisted an Ayat, so you now provide evidence of me doing so.

                    Or leave your claim.

                    *miracle = something which goes against the Allah's usual Sunnah in creating something (i.e. breaks the "laws" of nature)
                    Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 15-10-20, 05:13 PM. Reason: Specifying he was not made in a womb, specifying he was made as an adult, clarifying what I mean by miracle to ward of false beliefs of natural cause. Tense regarding our Mother Alayha as-Salam.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think this comment from another thread is quite on-topic:


                      ________

                      Describing Allah with a meaning that applies to humans is disbelief

                      The great Hanafi Imam al-Tahawi (d. 321 AH) said in his famous 'Aqida:

                      ومن وصف الله بمعنى من معاني البشر فقد كفر

                      Whosoever describes Allah with a meaning from among the meanings (Ma'na min Ma'ani) [that apply] to humans has disbelieved.
                      - end of quote -

                      The Hanbali Imam Ibn Qudama (d. 620 AH) said in his Tahrim al-Nadhar:

                      وإنما يحصل التشبيه والتجسيم ممن حمل صفات الله سبحانه وتعالى على صفات المخلوقين في المعنى ونحن لا نعتقد ذلك ولا ندين به بل نعلم أن الله تبارك وتعالى { ليس كمثله شيء وهو السميع البصير } وأن صفاته لا تشبه صفات المحدثين وكل ما خطر بقلب أو وهم فالله تعالى بخلافه لا شبيه له ولا نظير ولا عدل ولا ظهير { ليس كمثله شيء وهو السميع البصير

                      Now, tashbih and tajsim-anthropomorphism result only from him who makes the attributes of God accord in meaning with the attributes of created beings. But we do not believe this, nor do we follow it as our religion; on the contrary, we know that so far as God is concerned, “There is nothing anything like Him. He is the Hearing, the Seeing,”[42:11] and we know that His attributes do not resemble those of created beings. All that which occurs in the mind or the imagination, God is different therefrom. He has neither a match, nor an equal, nor a similar, nor an auxiliary; “There is nothing anything like Him. He is the Hearing, the Seeing.” [42:11].
                      - end of quote -

                      If it is now said that Allah ta'ala is described with Basar (seeing) and the creation too and whether this does not oppose what has been mentioned, then the answer is:
                      Detecting that which can be seen is what is necessitated or that which follows from the attribute of Basar and not the attribute itself. The only thing common between the Creator and the creation is in naming, but the reality is completely different.


                      That which is common between the Creator and the creation is only in naming, but not in reality!

                      From Tabaqat al-Hanabila:

                      أن البارىء سبحانه موصوف بأنه: حي عالم قادر مريد والخلق موصوفون بهذه الصفات ولم يدل الاتفاق فِي هَذِهِ التسمية عَلَى الاتفاق فِي حقائقها ومعانيها هكذا القول فِي أخبار الصفات ولا يلزم عند تسليمها من غير تأويل إثبات ما يقتضيه الحد والشاهد فِي معانيها

                      The Maker - glory be to Him - is described with being Living (Hayy), Knowing ('Alim), Powerful (Qadir) and Willing (Murid) while the creation is also described with these attributes and this agreement in the naming does not show their agreement in their realities (!) and meanings (!) and likewise is the statement regarding the narrations of the [divine] attributes; submitting to them without interpretation does not necessitate to affirm that which is implied by limitation (Hadd) and by the Shahid (that which we can perceive) regarding their meanings.
                      - end of quote -



                      The only action intended by the Ayat of the Sifat is to believe in them and not more!

                      Imam Ibn Qudama said in his Tahrim al-Nadhar:

                      فإنه لا حاجة لنا إلى علم معنى ما أراد الله تعالى من صفاته جل وعز فإنه لا يراد منها عمل ولا يتعلق بها تكليف سوى الإيمان بها. ويمكن الإيمان بها من غير علم معناها. فإن الإيمان بالجهل صحيح. فإن الله تعالى أمر بالإيمان بملائكته وكتبه ورسله وما أنزل إليهم وإن كنا لا نعرف من ذلك إلا التسمية. وقال سبحانه وتعالى: { قولوا آمنا بالله وما أنزل إلينا وما أنزل إلى إبراهيم } الآية

                      For indeed, there is no need for us to have knowledge of the meaning (!) (Ma'na) that Allah ta'ala intended from His attributes - jalla wa 'azz -, because there is no action intended by them and neither is any responsibility attached to them besides believing in them.
                      And having faith in them without having knowledge of their meanings is possible, because having faith with ignorance [of their meanings] is correct, for indeed Allah ta'ala has commanded [us] to have belief in his angels, his books, his messengers and that which was been sent down upon them even though we do not know from them except their names.

                      [Allah] - subhanahu wa ta'ala - says: { Say, "We believe in Allah and what is sent down to us and what was sent down to Ibrahim, ... } [2:136] until the end of the Aya.

                      - end of quote -


                      Answering the doubt of those who say "how is it possible that Allah reveals something while its meaning is not known"?

                      Imam Ibn Qudama said in his Rawdhat al-Nadhir (after mentioning that the Ayat of the Sifat are from the Mutashabihat and that their correct interpretation is only known to Allah ta'ala):

                      فإن قيل: فكيف يخاطب الله الخلق بما لا يعقلونه، أم كيف ينزل على رسوله ما لا يطلع على تأويله؟ قلنا: يجوز أن يكلفهم الإيمان بما لا يطلعون على تأويله؛ ليختبر طاعتهم، كما قال -تعالي-: {وَلَنَبْلُوَنَّكُمْ حَتَّى نَعْلَمَ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ مِنْكُمْ وَالصَّابِرِين} ، {وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الْقِبْلَةَ الَّتِي كُنْتَ عَلَيْهَا إِلَّا لِنَعْلَم ... } الآية، {وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الرُّؤْيا الَّتِي أَرَيْنَاكَ إِلَّا فِتْنَةً لِلنَّاس} . وكما اختبرهم بالإيمان بالحروف المقطعة مع أنه لا يعلم معناها. والله أعلم

                      If it is said: "How then does Allah address the creation with something that they do not comprehend or how does He sent down something on his Messenger regarding which the interpretation is not disclosed?"
                      We say: It is possible that He tasks them with having faith in something regarding which they do not know its interpretation in order to test their obediance as [Allah] ta'ala says:
                      { And We shall indeed test you until We make known the warriors and the steadfast among you } [47:31], { We had appointed the qiblah which you formerly observed only to see (test) ... } [2:143] until the end of the Aya, { and We did not create the spectacle which We showed you except to try mankind } [17:60].
                      Just like He has tested them with having faith in the disconnected letters (!) (al-Huruf al-Muqatta'a) even though their meaning is not known. And Allah knows best.

                      - end of quote -
                      ________

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post
                        Sheikh Mashoor al-Suhaibi is a Karrami innovator who is distorting not only Imam Ibn Qudamah (d. 620 H)'s works but the very Qur'an itself! This al-Suhaibi is teaching Kufr not Aqeedah!
                        Let me guess: He's one of those evil and mindless people who speak carelessly regarding the Lord of the Worlds and love pagan (!) books like "Ithbat al-Hadd lillah 'azza wa jall wa bi-annahu qa'id wa jalis 'ala 'arshih" ("Establishment of limit for Allah 'azza wa jall and that He is seated and sitting upon His throne") (just look at the name!) and "al-Naqdh 'ala Bishr al-Marisi", right?!
                        These people are callers to hellfire in reality! We ask Allah ta'ala for well-being and protection!


                        For those who don't know what these books contain, let them read this thread: "Open disbelief and paganism found in "al-Naqdh 'ala Bishr al-Marisi"!":

                        Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
                        There is a book which is named as al-Naqdh 'ala Bishr al-Marisi (see also HERE). It's ascribed to 'Uthman bin Sa'id al-Darimi (d. 280 AH), who was a scholar of Hadith (not to be mistaken with Imam al-Darimi [al-Samarqandi] (d. 255 AH), who was the author of Sunan al-Darimi).
                        It should be noted here that the transmission chain of this book contains several unknown persons, so that the content can not be ascribed with certainty to 'Uthman bin Sa'id. What is also suspicious is that this book contains very obvious Karrami creedal statements, while 'Uthman bin Sa'id had expelled Ibn Karram (d. 255 AH) - the founder of the Karramiyya - from Herat.
                        I would be not surprised if these Karrami Mujassima put it into his mouth, considering that their evilness was to such an extent that they even poisoned Imam Ibn Furak (d. 406 AH).

                        As far as I know this book was not quoted - nor even mentioned - in early sources (correct me if I'm wrong) and somehow Ibn Taymiyya (d. 728 AH) got hold of a copy of it and started to regard it as one of the best creedal books ever and this while this book contains open disbelief, paganism and anthropomorphism.

                        If one reads the title of the book one may think that it's an response against Bishr al-Marisi - one of the leaders of the Mu'tazila -, but the issue is not like this! The book "refutes" innovation with even greater innovation and even outright disbelief and disrespect towards Allah ta'ala!

                        Note that disbelief remains disbelief no matter who utters it!:
                        Whosoever is pleased with the creed that shall be quoted or tries to spread it among the people or prints it in order to call the people towards it has fallen into disbelief. Whosoever dies upon this creed has died upon disbelief!

                        Some of the quotes are translated by me and some of them by others (but the sources are not online anymore, so I can't link to them).


                        These are some of the examples of clear Tashbih and Kufr from the above mentioned book:

                        - "god" has a physical distance to his creation [and is in the above direction of it]:

                        فقال: ألا ترى أنه من صعد الجبل لا يقال له إنه أقرب إلى الله.
                        فيقال لهذا المعارض المدعي ما لا علم له: من أنبأك أن رأس الجبل ليس بأقرب إلى الله تعالى من أسفله لأنه من آمن بأن الله فوق عرشه فوق سماواته علم يقينا أن رأس الجبل أقرب إلى الله من أسفله وأن السماء السابعة أقرب إلى عرش الله تعالى من السادسة والسادسة أقرب إليه من الخامسة ثم كذلك إلى الأرض. كذلك روى إسحاق بن إبراهيم الحنظلي عن ابن المبارك أنه قال: رأس المنارة أقرب إلى الله من أسفلها. وصدق ابن المبارك لأن كل ما كان إلى السماء أقرب كان إلى الله أقرب، وقرب الله إلى جميع خلقه أقصاهم وأدناهم واحد لا يبعد عنه شيء من خلقه وبعض الخلق أقرب من بعض على نحو ما فسرنا من أمر السموات والأرض وكذلك قرب الملائكة من الله فحملة العرش أقرب إليه من جميع الملائكة الذين في السموات والعرش أقرب إليه من السماء السابعة


                        "He [al-Marīsi] said: “Don’t you see that you cannot say that whoever went up on a mountain is closer to Allah.” It should be said to this objector who claims that about which he has no knowledge: Who told you that the top of the mountain is not nearer to Allah than the bottom of it? Because those who believe that Allah is above His Throne and above His skies know for certain that the top of the mountain is closer to the sky than the bottom of it and that the seventh sky is closer to the Throne of Allah than the sixth, and that the sixth is closer to it than the fifth and so on down to the earth. Similarly, Ishāq ibn Ibrahīm al-Hanzali [ibn Rahaweh (d. 238)] reported that Ibn al-Mubārak said: “The top of the minaret is closer to Allah than the bottom of it.” Ibn al-Mubārak told the truth for whatever is closer to the sky is closer to Allah.
                        Notwithstanding, Allah is close to all His creation the near and the far and He is not far away from anything in His creation. Yet some of His creation is closer to Him than other as we explained about the skies and the earth. Likewise, with His angels, for the bearers of the Throne are closer to Him than all the [other] angels that are in the seventh sky.
                        "
                        - end of the quote -

                        (Note: The scholar whom he cites towards the end did not say what he claimed.)


                        - "god" has a place (Makan):

                        وأما قولك إن الله لم يصف نفسه أنه في موضع دون موضع، فإن كنت أيها المعارض ممن يقرأ كتاب الله ويفهم شيئا من العربية علمت أنك كاذب على الله في دعواك لأنه وصف أنه في موضع دون موضع ومكان دون مكان ذكر أنه فوق العرش والعرش فوق السموات وقد عرف ذلك كثير من النساء والصبيان فكيف من الرجال

                        "As for your statement that Allah has not described himself with being in one location (Mawdhi') without another one: If you, o opponent, are from those who read the book of Allah and understand a little bit of Arabic, then you would've known that you're lying about Allah with your claim, because He has [indeed] described Himself with being in one location without another location and in one place (Makan) without another place. He mentioned that He's above the throne, and the throne is above the heavens and this is something that many of the women and children know, so what about the men?"
                        - end of the quote -

                        لأنا قد أينا له مكانا واحدا، أعلى مكان وأطهر مكان وأشرف مكان على عرشه العظيم المقدس المجيد فوق السماء السابعة العليا حيث ليس معه هناك إنس ولا جان

                        "Because we've given Him one place (Makan), the most high, most pure and most noble place upon his great, holy and glorious throne, above the seventh heaven where there is no human or Jinn with him."
                        - end of the quote -

                        There are many such passages where "god" is explicitly described with having a place. The above two quotes however should be enough.


                        - "god" has limits:

                        وادعى المعارض أيضا أنه ليس لله حد ولا غاية ولا نهاية وهذا هو الأصل الذي بنى عليه جهم جميع ضلالاته واشتق منها أغلوطاته وهي كلمة لم يبلغنا أنه سبق جهما إليها أحد من العالمين. فقال له قائل ممن يحاوره: قد علمت مرادك بها أيها الأعجمي وتعني أن الله لا شيء، لأن الخلق كلهم علموا أنه ليس شيء يقع عليه اسم الشيء إلا وله حد وغاية وصفة وأن لا شيء ليس له حد ولا غاية ولا صفة، فالشيء أبدا موصوف لا محالة ولا شيء يوصف بلا حد ولا غاية، وقولك لا حد له يعني أنه لا شيء.
                        قال أبو سعيد: والله تعالى له حد لا يعلمه أحد غيره ولا يجوز لأحد أن يتوهم لحده غاية في نفسه ولكن يؤمن بالحد ويكل علم ذلك إلى الله ولمكانه أيضا حد وهو على عرشه فوق سماواته؛ فهذان حدان اثنان


                        "The opponent also claimed that Allah does not possess a Hadd (limit), Ghayah (restriction), or Nihayah (end). He said: And this is the basis upon which Jahm (ibn Safwan) built his misguidance and derived all of his errors. It has not reached us that anyone besides Jahm in the world preceded him with it. Someone who was discussing this with him (Jahm) said to him: I have come to know your intent oh non-Arab. You intend that Allah is nothing, because all of the creation have known that there is nothing that is called a “thing” except that it has a Hadd (limit), a Ghayah (restriction) and an attribute, and that what has no limit, restriction or attribute is nothingness.
                        So that which is a “thing” must necessarily be described with attributes. Nothingness is described with no limit or restriction. Your statement: He has no limit means that He is nothing.”
                        Abu Sa’id (al-Darimi) states:
                        Allah Ta’ala has a limit that no one knows but Him and it is not allowed for anyone to imagine a limit to His limit in himself, however, he is to believe in the limit and relegate the knowledge of that to Allah. His place (Makan) also has a limit and He is upon His ‘Arsh above the seven heavens- so these are two limits.
                        "
                        - end of the quote -

                        (Note: This statement is in direct opposition to what we find in the 'Aqida al-Tahawiyya, which has been accepted by the scholars of Ahl al-Sunna in general.)


                        - "god" moves, sits and stands:

                        لأن الحي القيوم يفعل ما يشاء ويتحرك إذا شاء ويهبط ويرتفع إذا شاء ويقبض ويبسط ويقوم ويجلس إذا شاء، لأن أمارة ما بين الحي والميت التحرك: كل حي متحرك لا محالة وكل ميت غير متحرك لا محالة

                        "Because the Living the Sustainer does as He wills: He moves as He wills, and He descends and ascends as He wills, and He extends [His hand] as He wills and stands and sits as He wills, for the criterion that distinguishes the living from the dead is movement: every live thing moves of necessity and every dead thing does not move of necessity."
                        - end of the quote -


                        - When "god" sits upon the Kursi there remains a space of four fingers on it:

                        إن كرسيه وسع السماوات والأرض وإنه ليقعد عليه فما يفضل منه إلا قدر أربع أصابع ومد أصابعه وإن له أطيطا كأطيط الرحل الجديد إذا ركبه من يثقله

                        "“Verily, His chair can hold the skies and the earth, and verily He sits down on it and there is no space left over in it except the space of four fingers,” and he extended his four fingers. “And [the chair] makes a sound like that of a new saddle when someone sits on it with his weight.”"
                        - end of the quote -

                        (Note: This is part of a [wrong] narration that he cites as a proof against his opponent.)


                        - When "god" sits on the throne it makes a sound, because of his weight:

                        وروى المعارض أيضا عن الشعبي أنه قد ملأ العرش حتى إن له أطيطا كأطيط الرحل. ثم فسر قول الشعبي أنه قد ملأه آلاء ونعما حتى إن له أطيطا ... فيقال لهذا المعارض: ... ويلك فإن لم يكن على العرش بزعمك إلا آلاؤه ونعماؤه وأمره فما بال العرش يتأطط من الآلاء والنعماء؟ لكأنها عندك أعكام الحجارة والصخور والحديد فيتأطط منها العرش ثقلا، إنما الآلاء طبائع أو صنائع ليس لها ثقل ولا أجسام يتأطط منها العرش

                        "The opponent has also reported from al-Sha'bi [who said] that He (Allah) has filled the throne and that [the throne] makes a sound like the sound of a saddle [when someone sits on it]. Then he interpretated the statement of al-Sha'bi [by saying], that [the throne] was filled by the grace and favor [of Allah]....
                        It is said to this opponent: ... Woe to you! If there is nothing on the throne - in your claim - other than the grace and favor [of Allah] and His command, then is it that the throne is making a sound from the grace and favor? It is as if [they are like] stones and iron to you, so that the throne makes a sound because of their weight.
                        Favors are traits and deeds which have no weight (Thiql) and they're not bodies which could cause the throne to make a sound.
                        "
                        - end of the quote -

                        (Note: The statement that is ascribed to the Tabi'i is a lie against him as was mentioned by Imam Ibn al-Jawzi (d. 597 AH) in his Daf' Shubah al-Tashbih.)


                        - "god" has touched Adam, peace be upon him, while creating him with his hands:

                        فيقال لهذا المريسي الجاهل بالله وبآياته: فهل علمت شيئا مما خلق الله ولي خلق ذلك غيره حتى خص آدم من بينهم أنه ولى خلقه من غير مسيس بيده، فسمّه؟ وإلا فمن ادعى أن الله لم يل خلق شيء صغير أو كبير فقد كفر. غير أنه ولي خلق الأشياء بأمره وقوله وإرادته وولي خلق آدم بيده مسيسا: لم يخلق ذا روح بيديه غيره فلذلك خصه وفضله وشرف بذلك ذكره، لولا ذلك ما كانت له فضيلة من ذلك على شيء من خلقه إذ خلقهم بغير مسيس في دعواك
                        - end of the quote -


                        - "god" may rest/sit upon the back of a mosquito:

                        إن الله أعظم من كل شيء وأكبر من كل خلق ولم يحتمله العرش عظما ولا قوة، ولا حملة العرش احتملوه بقوتهم ولا استقلوا بعرشه بشدة أسرهم ولكنهم حملوه بقدرته ومشيئته وإرادته وتأييده لولا ذلك ما أطاقوا حمله. وقد بلغنا أنهم حين حملوا العرش وفوقه الجبار في عزته وبهائه ضعفوا عن حمله واستكانوا وجثوا على ركبهم حتى لقنوا لا حول ولا قوة إلا بالله فاستقلوا به بقدرة الله وإرادته لولا ذلك ما استقل به العرش ولا الحملة ولا السموات والأرض ولا من فيهن ولو قد شاء لاستقر على ظهر بعوضة فاستقلت به بقدرته ولطف ربوبيته فكيف على عرش عظيم أكبر من السموات السبع والأرضين السبع وكيف ينكر أيها النفاج أن عرشه يقله والعرش أكبر من السموات السبع والأرضين السبع ولو كان العرش في السموات والأرضين ما وسعته ولكنه فوق السماء السابعة.
                        فكيف تنكر هذا وأنت تزعم أن الله في الأرض وفي جميع أمكنتها والأرض دون العرش في العظمة والسعة فكيف تقله الأرض في دعواك ولا يقله العرش الذي أعظم منها وأوسع؟


                        "Verily, Allah is greater than all things and bigger than all creation, and the throne is not carrying Him by [its] glory and strength, nor are the carriers of the throne carrying it by their strength, nor could they bear His throne; but they carried it by His power. It has reached us that when they carried the throne, and above it was the Almighty, in His glory and His splendor, they became weak from carrying it, and they became lowly, and knelt down on their knees, until they were taught to read: ‘There is no power, nor might, except with Allah.’ Then, they bore it by the power of Allah and His will. And if it were not for that, the throne would not be able to bear Him (i.e. Allah), nor the carriers [of the throne], nor the heavens, nor the earth, nor those in them.
                        Had He willed, He would have settled on the back of a mosquito, so it would bear Him, by His power and the subtlety of His Lordship. Thus, what of the great throne, that is bigger than the heavens and the earth? And how do you deny, O vain one, that His throne bears Him, when the throne is bigger than the seven heavens and the seven earths? And had the throne been in the heavens and the earth, they would not have contained it, but it is above the seventh heaven. So how can you deny this, when you claim that Allah is in the earth in all its places, yet the earth is less than the throne in greatness and vastness. So how is it that the earth bears Him according to your claim, but the throne which is greater and more vast than it does not?

                        - end of the quote -

                        The above should be enough.

                        Just because the Mu'attila went to one extreme it does not justify to go to the another extreme.
                        The above descriptions are in no way from the attributes of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala or from the belief of the people of Islam regarding the Bari subhanahu wa ta'ala.
                        These descriptions are from the beliefs of the pagans regarding their imaginary "gods". We ask Allah ta'ala for well-being and safety.

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                        • #13
                          Alhamdulilah, by the grace and help of Allāh ﷻ we have completed the explanation of Lum’at-ul 'Itiqaad. You can find the complete recordings here:

                          https://archive.org/details/lumatul-Iitiqaad

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

                            I do not twist any ayat in whatever I believe regarding evolution.
                            Did anyone precede you in understanding the term 'Bashar' and 'Insaan' as referring to different entities in the Qur'an?

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