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The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than ISIS

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  • Al Riyadh
    replied
    Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    Originally posted by PiriReis View Post
    True a huge bulk of Najd was not ruled directly by the Ottomans. But Makkah and Medinah were Ottoman territories. And Ibn Abdul Wahhab's rebellion did reach the two holy cities. Plus they attacked Ottoman trade routes.

    That rebellion was efficiently crushed in a punitive war. Diriyah was completely destroyed. Abdullah ibn Saud was executed.

    Later on in World War I, the same Saudis sided with the British against the Ottomans.

    Or were you guys happy when the Ottomans lost control of everything and the Europeans got to carve out the entire region for themselves?

    Wahhabis of those times also did not view Turks worthy enough to rule the Islamic world. They upheld a false belief that only Arabs could rule.


    Shaykh ul Islam when to jihad with the grave worshippers . He and the Saudi king allied and stopped this . But when the king was killed the Saudi royal family lost their love for Islam and jihad .

    Leave a comment:


  • Abd al-Rahman
    replied
    Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    Originally posted by Dinobot View Post
    loooooooooooool at bristol and mogadishu. A teleporting prophet audubillah

    Reminds me of snake nazim who said he could fly.
    And Ahmed barelvi had no evidence for any of it

    Leave a comment:


  • Dinobot
    replied
    Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    Originally posted by Abd al-Rahman View Post
    I bet the writer of this believes in haazir naazir, I bet the writer belives Rassullulah(saw) has knowledge of the unseen and that he is in Bristol and Mogadishu and Johannesberg and Lahore and in my house all at the same time. Audhubillahi minash shaytan ir rajeem
    loooooooooooool at bristol and mogadishu. A teleporting prophet audubillah

    Reminds me of snake nazim who said he could fly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu Sulayman
    replied
    Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab (d. 1206 AH) accuses the people of al-Ahsa` of worshipping idols:

    While addressing someone who is from al-Ahsa`, he tells him that idols are worshipped in his land (which is again a clear-cut lie!):

    وقد بلغني أنكم في هذا الأمر قمتم وقعدتم، فإن كنتم تزعمون أن هذا إنكار للمنكر، فيا ليت قيامكم كان في عظائم في بلدكم تضاد أصلي الإسلام: شهادة أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمداً رسول الله! منها، وهو أعظمها: عبادة الأصنام عندكم من بشر وحجر

    Source:
    al-Rasa`il al-Shakhsiyyah

    His blind followers attacked al-Ahsa` (which by the way is Ottoman land!), slaughtered its people, destroyed their property and stole whatever they could take several times during his lifetime and also after him. So let's see what they did in one of these attacks:


    Terrorizing and mass-slaugtering the people of al-Ahsa`

    Ibn Bishr (d. 1288 AH) said while speaking about the incidents of the year 1210 AH:

    فلما كان قبل طلوع الشمس ثور المسلمون بنادقهم دفعة واحدة , فأرجفت الأرض وأظلمت السماء , وثار عج الدخان في الجو , وأسقط كثير من الحوامل في الأحساء , ثم نزل سعود في الرقيقة المذكورة , فسلم له , وظهر له جميع أهل الأحساء على إحسانه وإساءته , وأمرهم بالخروج فخرجوا , فأقام في ذلك المنزل مدّة أشهر يقتل من أراد قتله ويجلي من أراد جلاءه ، ويحبس من أراد حبسه ، ويأخذ من الأموال ، ويهدم من المحال ، ويبني ثغوراً ، ويهدم دوراً ، وضرب عليهم ألوفاً من الدراهم وقبضها منهم ... وأكثر سعود فيهم القتل ... فهذا مقتول في البلد ، وهذا يخرجونه إلى الخيام ، ويضرب عنقه عند خيمة سعود ، حتى أفناهم إلا قليلا ، وحاز سعود من الأموال في تلك الغزوة ما لا يعد ولا يحصى

    "Then before the sunrise the Muslims (read: the Wahhabis) shot with their rifles [all at] once, so that the earth trembled, and the heaven became dark, and smoke rose into the sky and many of the pregnant women (!!!) in al-Ahsa` had a miscarriage (due to extreme fear).
    Then Sa'ud settled in the [earlier] mentioned al-Raqiqah, so it was given to him. All of the people of al-Ahsa` [then] appeared in front of him in kindness and badness. He commanded them to leave so they left.
    He stayed there for [several] months [while] kiling whomever he wanted to kill, and exiling whomever he wanted to exile, and imprisoning whomever he wanted to imprison, and taking from the wealth, and destroying places, and building strongholds, and destroying houses and wanting thousands of Dirhams from them and taking it from them...
    And Sa'ud killed many of them...
    So this one [lies] killed in the land and that one is taken out to the tents and his neck is struck off near the tent of Sa'ud until he annhalited [all of] them except very few.

    Sa'ud came into possesion of [much] wealth in this attack (Ghazwah) which can not be counted or numbered."

    Source: 'Unwan al-Majd 1/216-217

    (Remember: Sa'ud I. bin 'Abd al-'Aziz [bin Muhammad bin Sa'ud] (d. 1229 AH) later on (i.e. 1218 AH) became the third ruler of the first Saudi state and was a direct student of Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab.)
    Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 09-05-15, 03:31 PM.

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  • peras1
    replied
    Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    Originally posted by Abdalla94' View Post
    Didn't Abu Sulayman (the OP) also make this exact thread (on wahabis being khawarij) on IA?
    There has been loads of threads on miaw in IA, some Asharis like Abu Suleiman and others were Athari in AQeedah

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu 'Abdullaah
    replied
    Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    I knew I read it somewhere before.

    Leave a comment:


  • Uthman Ibn Afan
    replied
    The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than ISIS

    Yeah they're different people. Abu Sulayman had a bigger agenda which looked like was to promote the Ashaa'irah whereas Pluma was willing to discuss the historical events.

    Leave a comment:


  • Poster
    replied
    Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    Originally posted by Fais View Post
    These same arguments were made on Islamic awakening by a member name ... Pluto?

    I can't remember his name.

    Interesting read.
    Originally posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post
    Pluma

    Didn't Abu Sulayman (the OP) also make this exact thread (on wahabis being khawarij) on IA?

    Leave a comment:


  • Uthman Ibn Afan
    replied
    Originally posted by Fais View Post
    These same arguments were made on Islamic awakening by a member name ... Pluto?

    I can't remember his name.

    Interesting read.
    Pluma

    Leave a comment:


  • Fais
    replied
    These same arguments were made on Islamic awakening by a member name ... Pluto?

    I can't remember his name.

    Interesting read.

    Leave a comment:


  • Umair-Khan-0888
    replied
    Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    This is off topic, but what happened to the ISIS thread in current events, was it closed or am I banned from it? Does a mod know?

    Leave a comment:


  • Umair-Khan-0888
    replied
    Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    Originally posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post
    The description of the khawarij described in hadith are the timeless characterisitics. The exact beliefs of various khariji groups differed from time to time but their actions and enmity to the main body of Muslims is something that remained.

    So in the same way we can say ISIS are the khawarij of our era even though they acknowledge the khulafa ar-rashideen, the same way ibn Aabideen said about the original Wahabis.

    I'm not saying they were or were not khawarij, just acknowledging that Sunni scholars of their era did call them that.
    Good point

    Leave a comment:


  • Muslim First
    replied
    Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    Originally posted by abdullahore View Post
    That's strange because it would seem like most Saudi scholars nowadays are against rebellion against any ruler (especially Al-Saud) under most circumstances.

    The ikhtilaf is very convenient here.
    Good point.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mohamed Mifxal
    replied
    Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    however it doesn't mean we have to bring chaos in the name of "rebellion to remove unjust ruler", this is the what most people will do in the name of protest especially the ill tampered impatient muslims of today who are half baked muslims anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mohamed Mifxal
    replied
    Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    Originally posted by abdullahore View Post
    That's strange because it would seem like most Saudi scholars nowadays are against rebellion against any ruler (especially Al-Saud) under most circumstances.

    The ikhtilaf is very convenient here.
    most these days set the condition of open kufr or anti-shariah in order to make the rebellion permissible which is a legit reason actually in this case it becomes obligation for people to put someone out of the power position, However there are scholars (even salafi/wahabi ones) who say rebellion against unjust ruler or tyrannical ruler even if he is Muslim is not haraam, it depends on the situation and have weight the pro and cons eg: if we are certain that the aftermath evil is less compare to the greater evil of the unjust ruler.

    Leave a comment:

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