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The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than ISIS

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  • Originally posted by savo234 View Post
    You must make takfir of all the classical scholars of all 4 madhahib then !
    please give me the references for the books and pages where it says this
    i will look into then

    books not just 1 page
    as sometimes if a little is read and not all its taken out of context


    • I don't get the big deal about him tbh. There are Much better scholars to take from.
      "The organisation that is called as "the state" puts effort to destroy jihad in Sham as they destroyed it in Iraq because of their obvious transgressions against Quran and Sunnah." Abu Khalid as-Suri (Rahimahullah)


      • Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

        i dont want to hear from your ashari beliefs

        istigatha to the dead is the same as what kuffar of quraysh did
        Allah said invoke me
        not invoke others

        this is shirk akbar
        just because another alim permitted it or said its haram or biddah doesnt mean hes correct and doesnt mean im obliged to follow him
        Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 16-03-19, 09:53 PM.


        • Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
          and even with their works its very complicated
          and its not just about following the dhaahir of the text
          that is why there are ghulaat today like hazimis
          doing chain takfir

          if books like durar as saniyya were gone through with shuyookh instead of independently where misinterpretations occur then it would be a different story


          • Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
            and if he was such a bad scholar
            why did Allah allow his work to spread across the world for over 2 centuries now

            dont say its because of al saud
            because miaws work goes against them
            ie they are to be made takfir on for being tawagheet
            Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 16-03-19, 10:14 PM.


            • Originally posted by Muslim First View Post
              I don't get the big deal about him tbh. There are Much better scholars to take from.
              The only people that tend to bring him up are those deviated sufi's who are still ginger in the rear from him taking away all their peeps innovated toys back in the Arabian Peninsula.
              "When a man sees the road as long he weakens in his walk." Ibn Qayyim


              • Protip:

                You can oppose both Sufis like OP and MiAW at the same time.
                You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.


                • i will respond properly later


                  • Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
                    i will respond properly later
                    Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 17-03-19, 09:00 AM.


                    • show me adilla from the sahaba that istiaaana(seeking aid) or istighaatha(seeking relief) was permissable

                      with authentic ahadith not daeef

                      just because some ulama said it was permitted,makruh, biddah etc does not mean they are correct and that does not mean aimmah najd was wrong in saying it is shirk
                      but bring evidence from the sahaba

                      and the quran ayaat support my point
                      proove to me this is permissable because this is an act of ibaadah istiaana, istighaatha

                      the reason im speaking is because your saying its allowed to ask people (and im talking about asking dead people by the way) to ask Allah for you
                      and i dont want people reading this and then doing this
                      this is shirk calling upon dead people

                      ​Allah SWT said:

                      إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَإِيَّاكَ نَسْتَعِينُ
                      "It is You we worship and You we ask for help."
                      (QS. Al-Faatiha 1: Verse 5)

                      * Via Qur'an English​​​​​​
                      Allah SWT said:

                      وَيَوْمَ يَقُولُ نَادُوا شُرَكَآءِىَ الَّذِينَ زَعَمْتُمْ فَدَعَوْهُمْ فَلَمْ يَسْتَجِيبُوا لَهُمْ وَجَعَلْنَا بَيْنَهُمْ مَّوْبِقًا
                      "And [warn of] the Day when He will say, Call 'My partners' whom you claimed, and they will invoke them, but they will not respond to them. And We will put between them [a valley of] destruction."
                      (QS. Al-Kahf 18: Verse 52)

                      * Via Qur'an English

                      Allah SWT said:

                      وَلَا يَمْلِكُ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِنْ دُونِهِ الشَّفٰعَةَ إِلَّا مَنْ شَهِدَ بِالْحَقِّ وَهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ
                      "And those they invoke besides Him do not possess [power of] intercession; but only those who testify to the truth [can benefit], and they know."
                      (QS. Az-Zukhruf 43: Verse 86)

                      * Via Qur'an English Allah SWT said:

                      وَلَئِنْ سَأَلْتَهُمْ مَّنْ خَلَقَهُمْ لَيَقُولُنَّ اللَّهُ ۖ فَأَنّٰى يُؤْفَكُونَ
                      "And if you asked them who created them, they would surely say, Allah. So how are they deluded?"
                      (QS. Az-Zukhruf 43: Verse 87)

                      The quraysh knew rububiya (lordship) they knew Allah was the lord and the creator of the heavens and earths etc

                      however they didnt know uloohiya(worship)
                      they worshipped others alongside Allah
                      and this worship included duaa and seeking aid, seeking relief from the dead, statues, idols etc
                      this is why they were mushrikeen

                      and if you think otherwise then tell me the difference from kuffar of quraysh, hindus and apparently muslims who ask dead people to go supplicate to Allah for them

                      * Via Qur'an English Allah SWT said:

                      وَقِيلِهِۦ يٰرَبِّ إِنَّ هٰٓؤُلَآءِ قَوْمٌ لَّا يُؤْمِنُونَ
                      "And [Allah acknowledges] his saying, O my Lord, indeed these are a people who do not believe."
                      (QS. Az-Zukhruf 43: Verse 88)

                      * Via Qur'an English

                      and takfir is not just made from matters of the deen known by necessity

                      1)takfir can be made on matters from aslu deen(the foundation of the religion ie when you go against kufr bit taghut, amanu billah, wala wal baraa ie committing shirk such as you saying or believing you created life and death)
                      and matters from aslu deen are known by the fitra, the mithaaq and the aql

                      Allah SWT said:

                      وَاذْكُرُوا نِعْمَةَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ وَمِيثٰقَهُ الَّذِى وَاثَقَكُمْ بِهِۦٓ إِذْ قُلْتُمْ سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا ۖ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌۢ بِذَاتِ الصُّدُورِ
                      "And remember the favor of Allah upon you and His covenant with which He bound you when you said, We hear and we obey; and fear Allah. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of that within the breasts."
                      (QS. Al-Maaida 5: Verse 7)

                      * Via Qur'an English



                        and for the clear matters the hujjah is not needed as every single muslim will or should know this as a fundamental belief of a muslim


                        • just to make it clearer if my writing seems unclear i will paste what a shaykh nasr al fahd about the different types of takfir

                          also the topic of making duaa at the prophet صلي الله عليه وسلم grave


                          • bb#64_Fatāwā

                            Q28. Would it be possible for you, may Allāh (سبحانه وتعالى) preserve you, to mention for us a short summary regarding the issue of "Excuse of Ignorance"?

                            A. Excuse of ignorance is differed upon into 3 sayings:

                            1. Those who give excuse of ignorance completely in all cases.

                            2. Those who don't excuse the people with ignorance in Tawhīd {the foundation of worship} completely in all cases.

                            Irregardless if it was regarding the "Asmā" (applying the name of Mushrik upon him) in this world or the ruling (upon him) in the afterlife, so they consider him to be in the hellfire eternally, even if the Risālah (Prophetic Message) didn't reach him, and they used the first covenant (Al-Mīthāq al-Awwal) as proof.

                            3. And this is the correct view (Ahlu Sunnah hold this position), that there are some (types) of ignorance which can be excused, and other (types) which isn't (excusable):

                            A) So it would be excused in the Masā'il al-Khafiyyah (Unclear Matters), such as Qadar, Ēmān, Sifāt (Qualities of Allāh), and in the likes of the apparent Ahkām al-'Amaliyyah (Sharī'ah Rulings to do with Actions) which is other than Tawhīd, like Salāh, Zakāt, the Prohibition of alchohol & other than that.

                            B) It would not be excused in Tawhīd al-'Ibādah, because this is Aslu Dīn (the fundamentals of the religion) and the Dīn of all the messengers, like du'ā (to other than Allāh), slaughtering (to other than Allāh), a vow (compelling yourself to obey other than Allāh in a particular act) & other than that. This Jāhil is also upon two categories:

                            - A Jāhil who is not excused in this world & the hereafter, meaning that he will eternally remain in the hellfire, we seek refuge in Allāh from it (i.e. hellfire). And he is the one who the Hujjah has been established on by having the Risālah (Prophetic Message) reach him, no matter if he searched for it but didn't understand it, - (Hujjah only requires) an understanding of knowing its meaning, not an understanding of being convinced - or he opposed it and didn't bother searching for it (i.e. the message).

                            - A Jāhil who's excused in the hereafter, not in this world: And he is the one who the Hujjah hasn't been established on, like the one who grew up in a far away country-side (where he's unable to reach the knowledge) or was in a very tall mountain, or from the Ahlal Fatrah and other than them, so this person is dealt with as a Mushrik in this world, but as for the hereafter, the matter is left to Allāh (جل وعلا), and the most correct of what has been mentioned regarding him is that he will be tested (to see whether he enters Paradise or Hellfire), and Allāh (جل وعلا) knows best. [1]

                            ~ The Imām, Shaykh Nāsir al-Fahd (فك الله أسره).


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                              • i will post in reply to the other stuff you said later when i have time in sha Allah



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