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The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than ISIS

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  • Aaaannnnndddd still waiting for that "pristine" aqeedah book that your sidekick was asked to give. I told you that you won't get an apology from me. There are better and more productive things to do than to argue with the fools who have an unhealthy fetish and slander against the scholars of Islam. So you are either directly or indirectly working with the enemies of Islam. But you are not smart enough to directly work for them but only parrot what has been taught to you so that leaves you to be just a dupe without knowing it. Well, not until now.....
    Last edited by Musbah; 27-01-19, 11:48 PM.
    "When a man sees the road as long he weakens in his walk." Ibn Qayyim

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    • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
      ...How about I tell you some details of the great things your "Salafi" brothers did in my country in the last 15 years and how their actions served the American invaders and their allies?!...
      Americans such as Hisham Kabbani and his Naqshbandi cult?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

        Americans such as Hisham Kabbani and his Naqshbandi cult?
        Careful, they're watching you....
        Attached Files
        "When a man sees the road as long he weakens in his walk." Ibn Qayyim

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        • Originally posted by Musbah View Post

          Careful, they're watching you....
          And we‘re still waiting for an intelligent post by the "Salafi" fanboys.

          Note how you run away from whatever has been posted regarding the early Najdis, your so called "scholars" and the militant "Salafi" groups. You‘re unable to answer a single statement that I made regarding them, because you know that I can prove my statements while you can‘t.
          That‘s why you‘re hell-bent on changing the subject and behaving like a worthless fanboy.

          As for the picture of the person you posted:
          I have basically no informations about him (other than his name) nor do I have any connection to him, so what‘s the point?
          Making fun of me by posting random things which are not connected to me?

          What I‘ve noticed is that when "Salafis" are feeling that they‘re loosing a discussion they will almost always resort to using dishonest tactics. One of them is to mention someone who may have deviant views / actions but claims to follow classical Islam and then to start to act as if one is connected to this person. They usually then try to act as if everybody who ascribes himself to classical Islam is like that.

          What they forget is that when we mention "classical Islam" what is intended here is the way that the classical scholars had been upon. To reject "classical Islam" with this meaning is to reject the Ahl al-Sunnah!


          Comment


          • Originally posted by Musbah View Post
            Aaaannnnndddd still waiting for that "pristine" aqeedah book that your sidekick was asked to give. I told you that you won't get an apology from me. There are better and more productive things to do than to argue with the fools who have an unhealthy fetish and slander against the scholars of Islam. So you are either directly or indirectly working with the enemies of Islam. But you are not smart enough to directly work for them but only parrot what has been taught to you so that leaves you to be just a dupe without knowing it. Well, not until now.....
            al-Tahawiyya, al-Iqtisad fil I'tiqad, al-Nasafiyya, Umm al-Barahin, Jawharat al-Tawhid, etc.

            Before you make any idiotic comment: The heroes of this Umma like Sultan Salah al-Din and Muhammad al-Fatih where also upon the beliefs mentioned in the above works.
            Calling to these beliefs is hardly serving the disbelievers, rather the opposite.

            The Muslims who will re-open al-Quds al-Sharif will without any doubt be upon the beliefs of the likes of Sultan Salah al-Din.
            Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 28-01-19, 08:16 PM.

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            • Comment


              • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post

                And we‘re still waiting for an intelligent post by the "Salafi" fanboys.

                Note how you run away from whatever has been posted regarding the early Najdis, your so called "scholars" and the militant "Salafi" groups. You‘re unable to answer a single statement that I made regarding them, because you know that I can prove my statements while you can‘t.
                That‘s why you‘re hell-bent on changing the subject and behaving like a worthless fanboy.

                As for the picture of the person you posted:
                I have basically no informations about him (other than his name) nor do I have any connection to him, so what‘s the point?
                Making fun of me by posting random things which are not connected to me?

                What I‘ve noticed is that when "Salafis" are feeling that they‘re loosing a discussion they will almost always resort to using dishonest tactics. One of them is to mention someone who may have deviant views / actions but claims to follow classical Islam and then to start to act as if one is connected to this person. They usually then try to act as if everybody who ascribes himself to classical Islam is like that.

                What they forget is that when we mention "classical Islam" what is intended here is the way that the classical scholars had been upon. To reject "classical Islam" with this meaning is to reject the Ahl al-Sunnah!

                There are already 74 pages of debate and debunk of your positions. So why continue with this. It has been exhausted.
                "When a man sees the road as long he weakens in his walk." Ibn Qayyim

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Musbah View Post

                  There are already 74 pages of debate and debunk of your positions. So why continue with this. It has been exhausted.
                  Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 28-01-19, 09:37 PM.

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                  • Abu Sulayman has me on ignore.

                    :*-(

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                      Abu Sulayman has me on ignore.

                      :*-(
                      Lucky you.
                      "When a man sees the road as long he weakens in his walk." Ibn Qayyim

                      Comment


                      • Once again the mujahideen are singled out for scathing criticism while the tawaghit, most definitely upon extreme batil, either get a free pass or even if criticsed the approach is much softer.

                        Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post

                        As for the militant "Salafi" groups:

                        -
                        Completely wrong. Mujahideen are first and foremost fighting against kufr while these muslims of yours have wilfully stepped in as first line of defence of kufr. This is like throwing yourself in front of a speeding bus then blaming the driver for running over you. They only have themselves to blame.

                        These "muslims" have illegally imprisoned, tortured and murdered thousands of muslims to satisy wishes of their kafir masters. Some of these kafir collaborators have literally captured and sold muslims to kuffar. They aid the disbelievers against muslims. They legislate kufr. They fight and murder muslims to replace shariah with kufr. They cannot be excused and mujahideen are absolute right to strike them at any time and anywhere and any way they can.

                        U.S. is an open enemy, correct? but the very criminals they have trained and funded precisely to solidify kufr rule and serve their interest in muslim lands are being fought only by Salafi mujahideen but you think the same mujahideen are not only wrong but also serving U.S. interests by literally fighting against their pawn? This is crazy unfair. It's evident enough all you want is to malign Salafis in any shape or form you possibly can even if you have to be dishonest and deceptive.

                        Meanwhile what have sufis contributed to? What is their role in Jihad? Who are your leaders and Ulema that I can stand behind? What sacrifices have they made in their struggle against kufr? I don't want to know what they did 100 years ago. I'm only concerned about today.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Pakisaurus View Post
                          Once again the mujahideen are singled out for scathing criticism while the tawaghit, most definitely upon extreme batil, either get a free pass or even if criticsed the approach is much softer.



                          Completely wrong. Mujahideen are first and foremost fighting against kufr while these muslims of yours have wilfully stepped in as first line of defence of kufr. This is like throwing yourself in front of a speeding bus then blaming the driver for running over you. They only have themselves to blame.

                          These "muslims" have illegally imprisoned, tortured and murdered thousands of muslims to satisy wishes of their kafir masters. Some of these kafir collaborators have literally captured and sold muslims to kuffar. They aid the disbelievers against muslims. They legislate kufr. They fight and murder muslims to replace shariah with kufr. They cannot be excused and mujahideen are absolute right to strike them at any time and anywhere and any way they can.

                          U.S. is an open enemy, correct? but the very criminals they have trained and funded precisely to solidify kufr rule and serve their interest in muslim lands are being fought only by Salafi mujahideen but you think the same mujahideen are not only wrong but also serving U.S. interests by literally fighting against their pawn? This is crazy unfair. It's evident enough all you want is to malign Salafis in any shape or form you possibly can even if you have to be dishonest and deceptive.

                          Meanwhile what have sufis contributed to? What is their role in Jihad? Who are your leaders and Ulema that I can stand behind? What sacrifices have they made in their struggle against kufr? I don't want to know what they did 100 years ago. I'm only concerned about today.

                          This however does not justify the crimes committed by militant "Salafi" groups.

                          Do not be fooled by their slogans and claims. Everyone can claim to follow the truth and to be fighting for it, but what is important is to look at the reality of these claims.




                          -
                          (it should be however noted here that other than the time of the rightly guided Khulafa` all Islamic empires had unislamic elements in them).
                          The best example for that is what happened during the so called "Arab spring" - which by the way was orchestrated by the Americans! - where the result was worse than before.
                          Just look what happened to Syria: Thousands upon thousands of people were tortured, terrorized, killed, turned into refugees and lost whatever they had. And these crimes were not just committed by the regime, but also by those who claim to be fighting against them (which includes a lot of militant "Salafi" groups). Who benefitted from all this? The Americans and the Zionists. Now there is even a quite great risk for Syria to be splitted up into several mini-states, which is exactly what the Zionists with their Yinon Plan wanted!


                          - The next issue is that of ruling by the divine law:
                          The divine law is not just about Hudud as militant "Salafi" groups believe, but rather a complete system in order to preserve religion, life, intellect, lineage and property.
                          How is it possible that this is done by ignorant over-zealous youngsters who have taken up arms and would not even listen to their own parents? To be able to run a state you need experts in all important positions of the state. What you also need is learned judges who have systematically studied Islamic law.The next issue is that of implementing justice which is the foundation of the divine law:
                          The people who grow up in the West have actually no idea how much injustice and corruption there is in our countries. There are many such issues where the West is actually a lot better than our countries.
                          And this corruption is not something done only by the governments but rather by many people in our countries. Some of them even pray and fast, but still do these things. Do not think that these governments came out of nowhere. Many people in our countries deserve these corrupt governments!
                          These "Salafi" militant groups have the same corrupt mentality and many of their members have a criminal past anyways, so they are oblivious to what it means to be just.


                          - The next important issue is that replacing one type of disbelief by another one is like doing nothing.
                          The scholars of the "Salafis" are guilty of having beliefs which the classical scholars have regarded to be disbelief by consensus, so their state is that of the scholars of the Rafidha. What is the benefit of replacing one type of disbelief by another?! At the end of the day both is disbelief and both can lead to never-ending punishment in the hereafter.

                          - The next issue is that not everyone in the government in our countries is evil or corrupt. Is it fair to judge him in the same manner like the traitors and hypocrites?
                          Then: How is it correct to apply this ruling to all police officers, soldiers, judges and governmental employees and to act as if the rulings of Islam do no apply to them and that killing them is no problem?!?


                          - The last point that I want to make is among the most important ones:
                          Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 31-01-19, 04:11 PM.

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                          • -
                            When "Salafis" hear the words "Shirk" or "Mushrikin" the first people they think off are other Muslims. This is the sad state they've reached where their greatest enemies are the Muslims themselves.
                            Know that this amount of disunity and hatred was not present among Muslims before the "Salafis" came into existance.



                            -
                            One just should ask oneself where these groups get all that equipment and weapons?!

                            An example for the first statement would be Syria:Groups like ISIS - who boast with their inhumanity and ugly crimes! - are needed for the West so that they can use them as a justification to stay in our countries.


                            An example for my second statement (i.e. that America uses these "Salafi" militants to destroy any justified struggle against America and the West) would be 'Iraq.

                            This will be inshallah explained more in detail in the following post.
                            Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 31-01-19, 05:45 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Look brother, my younger self would have shared many of your views too but things change with time. We learn things we did not know before and we change our views accordingly.

                              Everyone has faults and even though mujahideen are the best of people from this ummah they will not be free from error. Some are better than others. Some make minor mistakes and some may have potentially committed crimes (as defined by Islamic law) but in most cases they get accused of crimes by ignorant people or munafiqeen even though their actions are not at all criminal. The thing is all of these are secondary issues and the primary issue is the grip of kufr in our lands and there is no doubt whatsoever that they are upon haqq in this matter and if the Sufis think they can do a better job they are free to lead. I still want to know about righteous Sufi ulema and sufi leaders of today.

                              Everything in your post we've heard it millions of times before and these accusations of serving the kuffar, fooling the people with slogans they're all simply untrue. Actually if you want to serve kuffar you'd do opposite of what mujahideen are doing.

                              Now how on earth can you compare rebellion of deviant khawarij against Ali R.A. to the fight of mujahideen against these illegitimate governments of today? They are nothing alike.

                              You say mujahideen believe shariah is all about hudud. I'm not aware of anyone having said such a thing but even simply implementing the hudod would make them miles better than the current kufr governments so I don't see the point here?

                              We know who is serving America. We know who gets money from America. We know who gets weapons from America. We know for what purpose America gives them money and weapons. We know who those weapons and money is used against. It's all out in the open but knowing all this mujahideen are still serving kuffar? I think I've killed a few brain cells trying to figure this out. If mujahideen were to annihilate kuffar you will still see that as an example of mujahideen serving kuffar.

                              With your mindset it's not possible to continue a discussion that will end on a positive note. May Allah guide all of us and keep mujahideen steadfast against external and internal enemies.

                              Comment


                              • Ameen!
                                "When a man sees the road as long he weakens in his walk." Ibn Qayyim

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