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The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than ISIS

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  • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
    And by the way: The topic of this thread is still the original Najdi / Wahhabi movement and their unjustified Takfir and mass-killings of other Muslims!
    For both things I‘ve brought clear cut proofs from their books! A prime example is their Takfir against the people of Makka al-mukkarama! Did you read what had been posted?

    Why is it that you want all to change the topic to Ash‘aris? Running from the truth regarding the Najdi movement?
    Let's be honest. You're opposed to "wahhabis" because of aqeedah issues. All this talk of bloodshed and whatnot is just a way for you to put down people you don't like because they differ from you on some matters. So it is only right to focus on the actual issue.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

      You must have mistaken this propaganda campaign for a normal discussion.
      Tried posting in his other thread after the complaint about the off topic. Completely ignored lol

      Imagine sleeping without praying isha and then waking up in your grave- bilal Phillips

      Comment


      • I was even polite lol
        Imagine sleeping without praying isha and then waking up in your grave- bilal Phillips

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Pakisaurus View Post

          Let's be honest. You're opposed to "wahhabis" because of aqeedah issues. All this talk of bloodshed and whatnot is just a way for you to put down people you don't like because they differ from you on some matters. So it is only right to focus on the actual issue.
          How dare you! These guys are opposed war and bloodshed and their scholars absolutely don't support any governments that persecute Muslims.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by eesa the kiwi View Post
            I was even polite lol
            I did reply to you in the Ibanah thread
            www.marifah.info

            Wahhabis Refuted
            Ash'aris

            Comment


            • Originally posted by faqir View Post

              I did reply to you in the Ibanah thread
              No you didn't you replied to musbah but not me
              Imagine sleeping without praying isha and then waking up in your grave- bilal Phillips

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Pakisaurus View Post

                Let's be honest. You're opposed to "wahhabis" because of aqeedah issues. All this talk of bloodshed and whatnot is just a way for you to put down people you don't like because they differ from you on some matters. So it is only right to focus on the actual issue.
                Why don‘t you people start being honest and start reading what is being said instead of making fun of your opponents all the time (I‘m not intending you, but some other people here).

                As for the reason for being against the early Najdi / Wahhabi movement and the movement that it produced later on (i.e. "Salafis"), then I‘ve mentioned quite clearly why one should be against them:

                Their beliefs AND their actions.

                Let‘s start with the beliefs and then go on to the actions.



                Comment


                • As for their beliefs:

                  They do not know the difference between Tawhid and Shirk and call
                  belief as disbelief and disbelief as belief.

                  They claim that God is described with tangible attributes, is subject to changes and must necessarily be spatially confined (which is pure materialism AND atheism!). They also claim that the world is eternal in its kind and some of them claim that the belief in the annhilation of the hellfire is a legitimate position.
                  All of this is disbelief by consensus according to Ash’aris and Hanbalis.
                  Note how none of you is even denying that the "Salafi“ Mashayikh believe in these things, even though it‘s clear disbelief! So how did you "focus" on these issues? By whining about the Ash‘ari scholars of the past (whom you people and your so called "scholars" will never ever reach) in piety and knowledge!?

                  Then there are other issues:

                  - They claim that the polytheists of Makka accepted the Lordship of Allah ta‘ala completely without any partners and that their polytheism happened only through actions. This claim of theirs is nothing else but rejecting the Qur`an al-Karim and the historical reality. According to the Qur`an and the Ahadith we know that these poytheists believed that angels are daughter of God and divine beings, that there are many divine beings along God who are needed to protect the world, that God is not all-knowledgeable, that their so called "Gods" can intercede without the permission of God and can fulfilll wishes independently, they rejected the ability of God to resurrect them and they would even go as far as cursing God if one were to curse one of their imaginary "Gods".
                  And while these polytheists had these beliefs (and more!) the lying Dajjal of Najd still claimed that they were more "monotheist" than most Muslims. If he knew about their beliefs, than he has disbelieved by this claim and if not, then this means that he was an ignorant idiot!
                  May Allah ta'ala reunite him with his beloved polytheists of Makka in the hereafter, whom he regarded to be nearer to Tawhid than the people of Islam!

                  - They accuse those seeking intercession with the best of creation - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - unto his Lord and calling his blessed name (intending him to be a mean in the fulfillment of one’s need) of polytheism and of leaving the religion, even though this was done by the Muslims of the past and regarded as allowed by the scholars.

                  - They make Takfir upon those who make some wrong actions concerning the graves of the Anbiya` and Awliya`, while the classical scholars called these issues as forbidden or as disliked (depending on the action), but did not make Takfir. Takfir is made if one has clear Shirki beliefs.
                  The difference of Tawhid and Shirk is based upon beliefs and not only actions (some actions may however be disbelief in themselves like for example prostrating in front of an idol).

                  - There are some other issues, where the early Najdis and many militant "Salafi" groups make Takfir, but I‘ll mention that together with their actions, because they usually KILL people based upon that Takfir.
                  Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 27-01-19, 08:22 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
                    ...Why don‘t you people start being honest and start reading what is being said instead of making fun of your opponents all the time (I‘m not intending you, but some other people here)...
                    You should quote the people you're referring to. Making passive aggressive jibes doesn't do you any favours.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                      You should quote the people you're referring to. Making passive aggressive jibes doesn't do you any favours.
                      Don't be surprised if they don't answer you. They like to pick and choose what's convenient for them. I'm still waiting for questions I asked like what is their "pristine" book on Aqeedah.
                      "When a man sees the road as long he weakens in his walk." Ibn Qayyim

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Musbah View Post

                        Don't be surprised if they don't answer you. They like to pick and choose what's convenient for them. I'm still waiting for questions I asked like what is their "pristine" book on Aqeedah.
                        I've already played in this game. The outcome on a discussion about intercession went as expected (hint: nowhere). Abu Sulayman crumbled on a few very basic questions.

                        Comment


                        • As for their actions:

                          - The early Najdis / Wahhabis claimed that the Muslims had all become polytheists and that whoever had heard regarding their call and did not become a follower of their teachings needs to be faught.
                          Based upon that they attacked Najd, Ahsa`, Hijaz, Sham, Yaman, 'Iraq, 'Oman, etc. and killed hundreds upon hundreds of Muslims. They terrorized the people of Islam and took from their possessions whatever they could take and destroyed their property whenever they could.
                          This is something that they themselves have proudly reported in their own history books, so there is no way to deny that they have done all of these crimes.
                          We don’t see anyone of you defenders of that Dajjal of Najd saying that these actions were huge crimes. In fact some of you openly supported these killings, which makes you (i.e. those justifying these mass-killings) accursed enemies of Islam like the Americans and the Zionists!

                          - The early Wahhabis claimed that the Ottomans were polytheists and that whoever doubted that or sided with them has disbelieved and needs to be faught and killed. They had even written several texts and books regarding this, which are available until this day.
                          One should note here, that the Ottoman state was trying to protect the Muslims from the attacks of the Europeans at that time, while the Najdi state had not a single war against disbelievers!
                          All of the wars of the first Saudi state (don‘t forget that the lying Dajjal of Najd was their Mufti!) was against Muslims! Just imagine the amount of evilness of these Najdi devils to accuse the 'Uthmani state - which was trying its best protecting Muslims all over the globe - of being polytheists, while they themselves were fighting exclusively against Muslims!

                          - They explicitly made Takfir upon the people of Makka al-mukarrama and claimed that whoever regards them as Muslims has disbelieved. They made an embargo against the people of Makka al-Mukarrama and Madina al-Munawwara until the people started dying from hunger.
                          They closed Hajj for several years after controlling these two cities, because they regarded the Muslims coming from other countries to be polytheists.
                          May Allah ta‘ala enable us to free the Haramayn al-Sharifayn alongside al-Masjid al-Aqsa from the hands of the evil beduins and the their Zionist masters.

                          As for the militant "Salafi" groups:

                          - They‘re trying to follow the footsteps of the early Najdis by waging wars first and foremost against other Muslims (be they pious or deviant ones!).

                          - They accuse all those who are in the governments in the Muslim countries to be disbelievers.
                          The truth is that although the Muslim states are not Islamic in many issues anymore, Takfir is not done upon every member of the parliament.

                          - They accuse the police and the soldiers in Muslim countries to be apostates, who need to be killled. This is also pure extremism.

                          - They regard those voting in so called "democratic elections" to have committed Shirk, which is also wrong, because voting with the intention of warding off an bigger evil maybe allowed and is definitely not polytheism.

                          - The above extremism is all based upon their view that ruling by other than God‘s law is disbelief in an absolute way.
                          The truth is that even though the systems in Muslim countries in our times are based partly or to a huge part upon disbelief (which differs from country to country), this still does not necessitate making Takfir upon parliament members, police officers, judges, soldiers, governmental employees and so on.
                          Takfir is done when someone rejects what is known to be necessarily from the religion.


                          - They are clueless of what Shar'ia is and think it‘s only about implementing Hudud and that‘s it. They have no idea what justice is and how important it is.

                          - They love to cause sectarian wars and turn every legitimate struggle against the disbelieving and criminal enemies of God into a fight between different Muslim groups.
                          The best example for that is 'Iraq, where these people completely destroyed the fight against the American occupiers and started a huge sectarian war.

                          So anyone claiming that these "Salafi“ groups (no matter whether it‘s ISIS, Al-Qa'ida, Shabab, Boko Haram, etc.) are doing something for the religion is actually ignorant of the reality of what is going on in our countries. There is a reason why the fanboys of these militant groups are usually living in the West: Because they‘ve no idea what they‘re doing here in our countries and how many Muslims they have killed.

                          PS: There is an ignorant and annoying person expecting me to answer his unintelligent posts, which are only made in order to change the topic and in order to provoke.
                          Let it be known to him that he‘s not worth an answer!
                          Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 27-01-19, 09:48 PM.

                          Comment


                          • All cut and paste.
                            "When a man sees the road as long he weakens in his walk." Ibn Qayyim

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Musbah View Post
                              All cut and paste.
                              We‘re still waiting for an intelligent post by the "Salafi" fanboys.
                              Last time you made an open lie and claimed that the website wahhabisrefuted is run by disbelievers (i.e. RAND) and when you were told to apologize you shamelessly ignored that.

                              And now you make another claim and if your claim is shown to be wrong then you‘ll again run away.
                              Come on if you’re truthful, tell me where I have copy pasted that? Are you able to swear to Allah ta‘ala - if you believe in Him - that I copy pasted that and that I don‘t know these informations and haven‘t read that with my own eyes in Najdi texts?
                              If you‘re a man you‘ll take your claim back and if not then you should know what you are.

                              Note how none of you fanboys are able to deny a single belief or action that I ascribed to the early Najdis or the militant "Salafi" groups or your so called "scholars"!!! The only thing you do is making empty claim against your opponent.

                              How about I tell you some details of the great things your "Salafi" brothers did in my country in the last 15 years and how their actions served the American invaders and their allies?!
                              Will you tell me that it‘s copy pasted again?!
                              Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 27-01-19, 10:39 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Aaaannnnndddd still waiting for that "pristine" aqeedah book that your sidekick was asked to give. I told you that you won't get an apology from me. There are better and more productive things to do than to argue with the fools who have an unhealthy fetish and slander against the scholars of Islam. So you are either directly or indirectly working with the enemies of Islam. But you are not smart enough to directly work for them but only parrot what has been taught to you so that leaves you to be just a dupe without knowing it. Well, not until now.....
                                Last edited by Musbah; 27-01-19, 10:48 PM.
                                "When a man sees the road as long he weakens in his walk." Ibn Qayyim

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