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The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than ISIS

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  • Originally posted by Musbah View Post

    That book has been translated by a publisher called Lampost Productions that the translator called, "A Return to Purity in Creed" . I would dare not bother to read your revisionist interpretation of that book. I have it in pdf form though that book has been hard to obtain but the Publisher the end of last year did a limited edition reprint of it. I may have missed the opportunity to purchase it.
    its ok you can read the arabic version which is readily available on line or at ghazali.org
    of course none of this is relevant to the subject of the thread
    www.marifah.info

    Wahhabis Refuted
    Ash'aris

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    • Let's be honest. You're opposed to "wahhabis" because of aqeedah issues. All this talk of bloodshed and whatnot is just a way for you to put down people you don't like because they differ from you on some matters. So it is only right to focus on the actual issue.

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      • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

        You must have mistaken this propaganda campaign for a normal discussion.
        Tried posting in his other thread after the complaint about the off topic. Completely ignored lol

        Each person has inside a basic decency and goodness. If he listens to it and acts on it, he is giving a great deal of what it is the world needs most. It is not complicated but it takes courage. It takes courage for a person to listen to his own goodness and act on it.

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        • I was even polite lol
          Each person has inside a basic decency and goodness. If he listens to it and acts on it, he is giving a great deal of what it is the world needs most. It is not complicated but it takes courage. It takes courage for a person to listen to his own goodness and act on it.

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          • Originally posted by Pakisaurus View Post

            Let's be honest. You're opposed to "wahhabis" because of aqeedah issues. All this talk of bloodshed and whatnot is just a way for you to put down people you don't like because they differ from you on some matters. So it is only right to focus on the actual issue.
            How dare you! These guys are opposed war and bloodshed and their scholars absolutely don't support any governments that persecute Muslims.

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            • Originally posted by eesa the kiwi View Post
              I was even polite lol
              I did reply to you in the Ibanah thread
              www.marifah.info

              Wahhabis Refuted
              Ash'aris

              Comment


              • Originally posted by faqir View Post

                I did reply to you in the Ibanah thread
                No you didn't you replied to musbah but not me
                Each person has inside a basic decency and goodness. If he listens to it and acts on it, he is giving a great deal of what it is the world needs most. It is not complicated but it takes courage. It takes courage for a person to listen to his own goodness and act on it.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Pakisaurus View Post

                  Let's be honest. You're opposed to "wahhabis" because of aqeedah issues. All this talk of bloodshed and whatnot is just a way for you to put down people you don't like because they differ from you on some matters. So it is only right to focus on the actual issue.
                  Their beliefs AND their actions.

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                  • As for their beliefs:

                    They do not know the difference between Tawhid and Shirk and call
                    belief as disbelief and disbelief as belief.

                    They claim that God is described with tangible attributes, is subject to changes and must necessarily be spatially confined (which is pure materialism AND atheism!). They also claim that the world is eternal in its kind and some of them claim that the belief in the annhilation of the hellfire is a legitimate position.
                    This claim of theirs is nothing else but rejecting the Qur`an al-Karim and the historical reality. According to the Qur`an and the Ahadith we know that these poytheists believed that angels are daughter of God and divine beings, that there are many divine beings along God who are needed to protect the world, that God is not all-knowledgeable, that their so called "Gods" can intercede without the permission of God and can fulfilll wishes independently, they rejected the ability of God to resurrect them and they would even go as far as cursing God if one were to curse one of their imaginary "Gods".
                    And while these polytheists had these beliefs (and more!) the lying Dajjal of Najd still claimed that they were more "monotheist" than most Muslims. If he knew about their beliefs, than he has disbelieved by this claim and if not, then this means that he was an ignorant idiot!
                    May Allah ta'ala reunite him with his beloved polytheists of Makka in the hereafter, whom he regarded to be nearer to Tawhid than the people of Islam!

                    - even though this was done by the Muslims of the past and regarded as allowed by the scholars.

                    - They make Takfir upon those who make some wrong actions concerning the graves of the Anbiya` and Awliya`, while the classical scholars called these issues as forbidden or as disliked (depending on the action), but did not make Takfir. Takfir is made if one has clear Shirki beliefs.
                    Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 27-01-19, 09:22 PM.

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                    • You should quote the people you're referring to. Making passive aggressive jibes doesn't do you any favours.

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                      • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                        You should quote the people you're referring to. Making passive aggressive jibes doesn't do you any favours.
                        Don't be surprised if they don't answer you. They like to pick and choose what's convenient for them. I'm still waiting for questions I asked like what is their "pristine" book on Aqeedah.
                        "When a man sees the road as long he weakens in his walk." Ibn Qayyim

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                        • Originally posted by Musbah View Post

                          Don't be surprised if they don't answer you. They like to pick and choose what's convenient for them. I'm still waiting for questions I asked like what is their "pristine" book on Aqeedah.
                          I've already played in this game. The outcome on a discussion about intercession went as expected (hint: nowhere). Abu Sulayman crumbled on a few very basic questions.

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                          • As for their actions:

                            - The early Najdis / Wahhabis claimed that the Muslims had all become polytheists and that whoever had heard regarding their call and did not become a follower of their teachings needs to be faught.
                            Based upon that they attacked Najd, Ahsa`, Hijaz, Sham, Yaman, 'Iraq, 'Oman, etc. and killed hundreds upon hundreds of Muslims. They terrorized the people of Islam and took from their possessions whatever they could take and destroyed their property whenever they could.The early Wahhabis claimed that the Ottomans were polytheists and that whoever doubted that or sided with them has disbelieved and needs to be faught and killed. They had even written several texts and books regarding this, which are available until this day.
                            One should note here, that the Ottoman state was trying to protect the Muslims from the attacks of the Europeans at that time, while the Najdi state had not a single war against disbelievers!
                            Just imagine the amount of evilness of these Najdi devils to accuse the 'Uthmani state - which was trying its best protecting Muslims all over the globe - of being polytheists, while they themselves were fighting exclusively against Muslims!

                            - They explicitly made Takfir upon the people of Makka al-mukarrama and claimed that whoever regards them as Muslims has disbelieved. They made an embargo against the people of Makka al-Mukarrama and Madina al-Munawwara until the people started dying from hunger.
                            They closed Hajj for several years after controlling these two cities, because they regarded the Muslims coming from other countries to be polytheists.As for the militant "Salafi" groups:

                            -

                            - They accuse all those who are in the governments in the Muslim countries to be disbelievers.
                            The truth is that although the Muslim states are not Islamic in many issues anymore, Takfir is not done upon every member of the parliament.

                            - They accuse the police and the soldiers in Muslim countries to be apostates, who need to be killled. This is also pure extremism.

                            - They regard those voting in so called "democratic elections" to have committed Shirk, which is also wrong, because voting with the intention of warding off an bigger evil maybe allowed and is definitely not polytheism.

                            -
                            The truth is that even though the systems in Muslim countries in our times are based partly or to a huge part upon disbelief (which differs from country to country), this still does not necessitate making Takfir upon parliament members, police officers, judges, soldiers, governmental employees and so on.
                            Takfir is done when someone rejects what is known to be necessarily from the religion.


                            -

                            - They love to cause sectarian wars and turn every legitimate struggle against the disbelieving and criminal enemies of God into a fight between different Muslim groups.
                            The best example for that is 'Iraq, where these people completely destroyed the fight against the American occupiers and started a huge sectarian war.
                            Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 27-01-19, 10:48 PM.

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                            • All cut and paste.
                              "When a man sees the road as long he weakens in his walk." Ibn Qayyim

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                              • Originally posted by Musbah View Post
                                All cut and paste.
                                Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 27-01-19, 11:39 PM.

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