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The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than ISIS

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  • Go back to sleep.

    -_-

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    • Did the Salaf go the grave of Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) and make du'ā to him?

      No.

      Did the Salaf go the grave of Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) and make du'ā to him?

      No.


      Did the Salaf go the grave of Uthmān (may Allah be pleased with him) and make du'ā to him?

      No.

      Did the Salaf go the grave of Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) and make du'ā to him?

      No.

      Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) removed Khalid bin walīd (may Allah be pleased with him) from leading the armies because people were looking toward him for the victories and Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) was afraid they might look away from Allah being the one who gives victories!

      Not to mention, that these Sūfīyah say the dead is in need of rewards. Let's gift him rewards. He is in need of our Dua. Let's do isal al-thawab.

      Then, they go ask the dead for help

      ​​​​​​​-_-
      Watch those eyes

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Abu Kamel View Post

        There were other ulama in Arabia who opposed the same actions. Shaykh Abdullah Ibn Ibraheem al Saif al Shammari was a Hanbali alim who left Najd, and lived and taught in al Madinah. He was an important teacher of shaykh Ibn Abdul Wahhab and was from Najd and openly condemned tree worship, grave worship, etc, and considered it a major conflict that must be fought.
        Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Hayat al Sindhi was a Hanafi scholar and muhadith. He taught in al Madinah, was Ibn Abdul Wahhab's main teacher there, and was openly critical of and condemned many actions, including the prayers to the Prophet (saws) at his grave.

        These ulama were not followers of sh. Ibn Abdul Wahhab, rather his teachers. They all had to witness a degraded level of munkar. And they could NOT act in al Madinah because it was under the rule of the Sharifs of Ahlil Bayt who were in turn under Ottoman/Uthmani sultan's authority. And the sultanate granted share authority to sufi orders to practice what they wanted according to their turuq/methodologies.

        What You are implying is all those pilgrims to al Madinah were knowledgeable and practicing Islam properly and all the classical ulama for the preceding 100s of years could vouch for the practices and beliefs of these pilgrims and the people of Najd. Instead, sh. Ibn Abdul Wahhab had a distorted, extremist, narcissistic sectarian mania which manifested into murderous rampages.


        What hat you are saying is after the shaykh started his Dawah back in Najd and after a few years, gathered 600 men and the village amir to oust the worshippers at the supposed grave of hadrat Zaid Ibn al Khattab (rah) brother of khalifa Umar (rah), and the shaykh himself led the men and demolished the shrine, with no one injured and no one killed as they were surprised and outnumbered, then this was a wrong action that interfered in the accepted valid worship of Muslim common folks and slaves.

        Land you stand by this, that nothing wrong, no munkar was occurring, except by the shaykh and his followers?
        Brother I thought you said you were working on a thread. Please do post it
        Watch those eyes

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        • Saudi family who are supported by mad khalis have always been trecherous saying that ottoman themselves were a mess at that point until the great Abdul Hamid ii came they had the kufr of tanzimat reform started by the idiot Abdul mecid I

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          • ZeeshanParvez
            ZeeshanParvez commented
            Editing a comment
            One hundred is way too little Link. How about we set up a salary for anyone who can make out his posts...

          • noobz
            noobz commented
            Editing a comment
            i have taken up this challenge , i will pm you my stripe account details.

          • noobz
            noobz commented
            Editing a comment
            i have taken up this challenge , i will pm you my stripe account details.

        • @Linkdeutscher
          Your the one to talk about making sense when you make yourself look like a fool in multaqa forum on a regular bases

          http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/forum...r-normal-socks
          http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/forum...gatory-prayers

          as for ZeeshanParvez due to not taking your mental health tablets in the other thread you were going through a identity crisis at one point
          first claiming the link I provided I should have confirmed if it was you to begin with implying it's not you then you admit it is you PLEASE START TAKING YOUR MEDICINES/TABLETS FOR YOUR MENTAL ILLNESS

          Comment


          • ZeeshanParvez
            ZeeshanParvez commented
            Editing a comment
            Thank you so much for bringing up that second thread. I was trying to find that thread as I needed to take my posts there and forward them to people on my list on FB and elsewhere. You are such a gem!

        • Glad I could help

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          • No, thats not the question either.

            biryani , with or without alloo , that is the question.



            Comment


            • Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
              Did the Salaf go the grave of Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) and make du'ā to him?

              No.

              Did the Salaf go the grave of Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) and make du'ā to him?

              No.


              Did the Salaf go the grave of Uthmān (may Allah be pleased with him) and make du'ā to him?

              No.

              Did the Salaf go the grave of Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) and make du'ā to him?

              No.

              Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) removed Khalid bin walīd (may Allah be pleased with him) from leading the armies because people were looking toward him for the victories and Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) was afraid they might look away from Allah being the one who gives victories!

              Not to mention, that these Sūfīyah say the dead is in need of rewards. Let's gift him rewards. He is in need of our Dua. Let's do isal al-thawab.

              Then, they go ask the dead for help

              ​​​​​​​-_-
              BUT

              did the pakis go to the grave of data ganj baksh?



              Comment


            • Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 16-10-18, 03:06 PM.

              Comment


              • Now as for you trying to act as if the Salaf al-salih did not perform Tawassul, Tashaffu' or Istighathah, then this is simply a claim which your sect repeats even though it goes against reality and it has been established that the Muslims throughout ALL centuries have performed it.

                First of all: Then:If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Mercifuland it should be enough for you to know that the scholars regarded the Aya to be general in meaning.
                - Rasulullah - 'alayhi afdhal al-salati wal salam - himself teached a supplication to a man who was complaining regarding his eyes, - The companion 'Uthman bin Hunayf - radhiallahu 'anhu - teached this supplication AFTER the death of Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam -This alone makes all of your claims that none of the Sahaba did it completely wrong.That which Allah ta'ala has blessed his Messenger - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - with after his deathTo claim that none of the early Muslims performed it after all of this is nothing but stubbornly rejecting the reality.And if they try to find some weird "explanation", than what about the scholars in general regarding it as permissable and good to seek the intercession of the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam?

                If the issue is as explained than what is it other than pure Kharijism to allow the spilling of Muslim blood because of this very issue?!?!
                Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 16-10-18, 05:11 PM.

                Comment


                • Comment


                  • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                    That's not an answer. The question was why would you seek intercession through anyone else. Incidentally, who do you use for intercession?

                    Later. I have to try and keep this really simple for obvious reasons.
                    Any response to this?

                    Comment


                    • Stupid thread. It's like you can feel your brain cells dying as you read it
                      Each person has inside a basic decency and goodness. If he listens to it and acts on it, he is giving a great deal of what it is the world needs most. It is not complicated but it takes courage. It takes courage for a person to listen to his own goodness and act on it.

                      Comment


                      • This Ash'ari doesn't know if he's promoting Tawassul or Tashaffa'. I ask Allah for the intercession of the Prophet, peace be upon him, every day. However, that intercession is that he, peace be upon him, be granted al-Maqam al-Mahmud. As for Tawassul, then the Ash'ari can't bring a single evidence from the Quran, Sunnah, Companion, Tabi'ee, Imam of Ahl as-Sunnah, or one of the Salaf saying that it is legislated to do Tawassul through a dead or absent person or at a person's grave. Not a single person. As for Tawassul through living people who are perceived to be the best Muslims and most pious, then this is proven in the Sunnah.

                        Here is what Ibn Taymiyyah said:

                        And as for the third type of oath, to say: "Oh Allah! By the honor of so-and-so according to You," or "By the blessedness of so-and-so," or "By the holiness of so-and-so according to You, do this or that for me..."

                        A large number of people do this, however, it has not been related on authority of one of the Companions, Tabi'een or Salaf of the Ummah, that they made a similar Du'a as this one...

                        An-Nasa'ee, at-Tirmidhee and others have transmitted that the Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, taught some of his Companions to make a Du'a, saying: "Oh Allah!Truly, I ask You and seek a means to You by means of Your Prophet, the Prophet of Mercy- Oh Muhammad! Oh Messenger of Allah! Truly I seek a means towards my Lord through You regarding my need in order that He decree it. Oh Allah! Thus, grant him intercession for me..."

                        Indeed a group has used this Hadith as proof for the permissibility of Tawassul by means of the Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, during his life and after his death. They say: "There is no Du'a to created things in Tawassul, nor seeking relief in something created; rather it is only Du'a and seeking relief in Allah; however, in it there is asking by means of [the Prophet's] honor...

                        As for when misfortune or fear of something strikes a man and he seeks relief [Istighathah] through his Shaykh, seeking to fortify his heart from that incident, then this is Shirk and it is from the category of the Deen of the Christians...


                        [Majmu' al-Fatawa 27/87]

                        These Ash'aris hate Ibn Taymiyyah for being one of the greatest scholars to expose the misguidance of the Ashaa'irah.

                        Comment


                        • Every single person I've discussed *this* type of intercession with, who says it is allowed, falls apart very quickly when we get to the details of how/who/when/where/why.

                          Every single one without exception.

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