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The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than ISIS

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  • Originally posted by ConfusedMuslim View Post
    Ignorance is a sign of the end days. Perhaps the two sides should actually read about each other rather than assuming each other's beliefs - this is pathetic.

    That is all I'll say. Take from that what you will. And Allah knows best.
    I tried that approach in the beginning. You should read the earlier part of the thread.

    He went from calling me a bro to kufr, anthropomorphism allegations, and what not.

    Showed no respect for scholars who opposed his viewpoint.

    So, I just showed him some historic facts about his sect.
    Watch those eyes

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post

      I tried that approach in the beginning. You should read the earlier part of the thread.

      He went from calling me a bro to kufr, anthropomorphism allegations, and what not.

      Showed no respect for scholars who opposed his viewpoint.

      So, I just showed him some historic facts about his sect.
      I apologise for not being able to read through the earlier part of the thread. I looked at the latest responses and saw the language being used and decided add my comment.

      Indeed, I pray that Allah saves us from this fitnah of divisions/sects in Islam. It is sad to see the brothers/sisters fighting, especially when they seem not to understand each other/make allegations about each others beliefs.

      A quote from Imam Malik ibn Anas comes to mind:

      Last edited by ConfusedMuslim; 28-08-18, 09:06 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ConfusedMuslim View Post
        Ignorance is a sign of the end days. Perhaps the two sides should actually read about each other rather than assuming each other's beliefs - this is pathetic.

        That is all I'll say. Take from that what you will. And Allah knows best.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post

          I tried that approach in the beginning. You should read the earlier part of the thread.

          He went from calling me a bro to kufr, anthropomorphism allegations, and what not.

          Showed no respect for scholars who opposed his viewpoint.

          So, I just showed him some historic facts about his sect.
          Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 28-08-18, 08:45 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post

            I called you bro, because I thaught you are a normal Muslim. When I however see that you make hateful and shameless off-topic posts all the time in this thread, then why should I not change my tone towards you?
            There has come to you the disease of the nations before you, jealousy and hatred., 2434
            The brother may disagree with you, but do not hate him. Do not hate him even if he were to hate you, in fact respond to him with kindness. This message has been given in the Quran in several places.

            "Such as persevere in seeking their Lord's Countenance and are regular in prayer and spend of that which We bestow upon them secretly and openly, and overcome evil with good. Theirs will be the sequel of the (heavenly) Home,"
            -Quran 13:22
            "Repel evil with that which is better. We are Best Aware of that which they allege."
            -Quran 23:96

            Comment


            • Comment


              • Originally posted by ConfusedMuslim View Post



                The brother may disagree with you, but do not hate him. Do not hate him even if he were to hate you, in fact respond to him with kindness. This message has been given in the Quran in several places.



                Comment


                • I fear for you brother. You have hatred in your heart. Remember what the Prophet (pbuh) said, "There has come to you the disease of the nations before you, jealousy and hatred."


                  When I implored you to show compassion you started to say "brother says x, he is not my brother", implying that you can hate him despite the verses of the Quran that implore you to be kind and despite the prophet (pbuh) warning that hatred is a disease for this Ummah. Is this rejection the way we deal with those who differ from us? Did the Prophet (pbuh) deal with people with enmity and hatred?

                  Let me narrate you a well-known story which shows how the Prophet (pbuh) used to deal with (once) evil people:

                  A neighbor of the Prophet (pbuh) tried her best to irritate him by throwing garbage in his way every day. One day, when he walked out of his home there was no garbage. This made the Prophet (pbuh) inquire about the old woman and he came to know that she was sick. The Prophet (pbuh) went to visit her and offer any assistance she might need. The old woman was extremely humbled and at the same time ashamed of her actions in light of the concern that the Prophet (pbuh) showed her. By seeing the example of compassion of Prophet (pbuh), she became convinced that Islam must be the true religion.
                  I do not know if the brother actually said what you allege, I hope he didn't. But even if he did, you yourself are going against the Quran. You are trying to fight evil with more evil. Darkness does not defeat darkness. Light defeats darkness. Show him kindness. Don't let your hatred get the better of you.

                  I wish you the best brother.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post

                    When it comes to Ibn Taymiyyah then his clear-cut defense of Tajsim shocked me
                    As I mentioned, he isn't interested in understanding the other view point. Ibn Taymiyyah never indulged in Tajsiim.

                    Rather, you use the principle لازم المذهب هو المذهب to attribute things to him.

                    And to do so after someone clearly states Allaah is not like the creation is lying upon him.



                    and when it came to the Najdis their limitless and unjustified Takfir and bloodshed made me really hate them.
                    You have till this point totally ignored who started the fighting.

                    If anyone asks that question you assume he supports the killing.


                    Second, you have been shown over and over that Ibn Taymiyyah never called for killing of the Ashaa'irah.

                    The Salafis today do not call for killing of the Ashaa'irah.


                    When I reminded you of this earlier, that was when the bro went out the window!

                    Quite clearly you want people to believe that Salafis call for killing of the Ashaa'irah based on the actions of a few and when reminded that is not the case it does not settle well with you.
                    Last edited by ZeeshanParvez; 29-08-18, 01:54 AM.
                    Watch those eyes

                    Comment



                    • Books you label Tajsiim because they don't agree with your ilm al-Kalaam and what it necessitates.

                      It is a historic fact that prior to Abu al-Hasan al-ash'ari the Ummah had no difference of opinion about the meaning of the Kalaam of Allaah.

                      He, or Ibn Kullaab from whom he took, invented the third saying.

                      It was an innovation.

                      To claim that the Kalaam of Allaah is divided into words and meaning is something that was never known among the Salaf.

                      Speaking of evidences, you won't find any from the Companions (may Allaah be pleased with them all) to support it.


                      The clear cut Ayah(s) are exactly what we believe in.

                      You need to resort to ta'wiil because if you accept them based on their zaahir, according to ilm al-kalaam, it necessitates kufr.


                      Let everyone take a moment and digest that.


                      Allaah sent down the Book. The zaahir of the Verses will lead you to kufr. We need ilm al-Kalaam, which was unknown to the Companions, to truly understand them.
                      Last edited by ZeeshanParvez; 29-08-18, 03:01 AM.
                      Watch those eyes

                      Comment


                      • Nowhere in this thread has he implied killing muslims is a minor issue.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Pakisaurus View Post

                          Nowhere in this thread has he implied killing muslims is a minor issue.
                          HERE
                          Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 29-08-18, 09:07 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
                            I think you forgot to read the part about we will find out on the Day of Judgement if he is right or wrong...

                            And you have with held from the readers the fact that he was attacked and made Ijtihaad to react in self defense.

                            The homes of those who supported him were ruined and so were their women.


                            He himself admits that I did not begin the fighting.

                            He began the da'wah to call towards the Hanbali aqiidah which is in accordance with the aqiidah of the Salaf.

                            Then people began to follow him.

                            They were attacked. Their women were disrespected.


                            He made Ijtihaad to fight back.

                            Did he do the right thing? Should he have not fought back and continued his da'wah in secret?


                            But you refuse to discuss who started the fighting because that would undermine your whole thread now wouldn't it....


                            Watch those eyes

                            Comment


                            • I would also like to remind the readers that whenever I begin to post about how the Salafis of today do not call for the killing of the Ashaa'irah he returns to respond with violence.

                              It is true.

                              Notice the trend.


                              Ibn Baaz does not call them kaafirs

                              Ibn Uthaymiin does not call them kafirs

                              al-albaani does not call them kaafirs

                              Islamweb does not call them kaafirs

                              Islamqa does not call them kaafirs


                              None of them call toward the killing of the Ashaa'irah.


                              Most important of all Ibn Taymiyyah did not call them kaafirs!! He did not call to kill them.


                              But when I mention this he gets angry. He gets really angry.


                              Do you know why? It seems because he wanted to use Muhammad bin abd al-wahhaab to undermine the Salafiiyah movement.

                              When I post the truth that it does not call the Ashaa'irah kuffaar or call to kill them, it does not go well with his plan.


                              And it is the truth.

                              The Salafi today do not call to the killing of the Ashaa'ah!
                              Watch those eyes

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
                                First of all: This is completely off-topic and the battle of Siffin was a Fitnah.
                                Then: It's not like both sides were right. Imam 'Ali - karramallahu wajhahu - was right and those who faught against him were wrong!
                                The number of companions who sided against Imam 'Ali was not big, but rather very little. And we simply don't speak concerning them, because it is not befitting for us to do so, while their status is much higher than ours.
                                And: It's not like all people in both camps had good intentions, rather there were people in both camps who had ill intentions.
                                You have made a lot of mistakes in this thread.

                                I intended to correct them, but as you know you are not the only one with a family.

                                So, let me take this opportunity to correct one of your many mistakes.


                                What you have said above is not what your Imaam al-Baqillaani says.

                                Please read what he says:


                                And it is obligatory that it be known that what came to be between the Companions of the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) such as fighting, we refrain from it. We ask Allaah to have mercy on all of them and praise all of them. We ask Allaah for them al-ridwaan, al-'amaan, al-fauz, and al-jinaan.

                                And we believe Ali was right in regards to what he did. For him is two rewards.

                                And that the Companions (may Allaah be pleased with them all) whatever came to be from them was based on Ijtihaad and for them is reward. We do not label any of them as faasiqs.



                                As you can see you are unaware of your own aqiidah.

                                Compare the words you have used to what al-Baqillaani says.



                                As this thread progresses it is becoming more and more apparent that a person such as yourself who is unaware of his own aqiidah does not fully comprehend the aqiidah of Ibn Taymiyyah and those who follow him.



                                You are bringing up past events to create hostility and enmity between Muslims.



                                You know full well the Salafis of today do not make Takfiir of the Ashaa'irah.



                                They do not call for killing you.




                                Yet, you want everyone to see the Salafiyyah in the light of the actions of a man who according to one view in history was acting in self defense after he and his followers were attacked for his preaching to the people the aqiidah of the Salaf as opposed to the aqiidah of the ones who follow the bid'ah of ilm al-kalaam.





                                Watch those eyes

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