The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than ISIS

[Abu Sulayman]

Zeeshan, why are trying to change the subject again? What kind of behaviour is this? The subject are not the Asha'irah, but rather the early Najdi / Wahhabi movement and their extremism in Takfir and bloodshed.

Other than that: Your above posts clearly show that you're ignorant regarding the issues you've mentioned. I advice you to stop talking without knowledge and embarassing yourself further. Blindly repeating what other "Salafis" have said is not an intelligent idea.

The only enemy of Islaam are you lying 'Ashaa'irah. You are absolute liars.

Your above post is pure extremism.

Read my post again: I called those who are justifying attacking Muslim cities and villages, killing their inhabitants, terrorizing them and taking their wealth, as enemies of Islam.

Now read what said: You're calling the Ash'aris as enemies of Islam, simply because they don't share your views or because you accuse them of being deceitful.

Do you see the great difference between these two statements?

AND: Most of the major scholars of this Ummah - especially those belonging to the Ahl al-Sunnah - where Ash'aris and Maturidis. The Ash'aris defended the religion for many many centuries from the attacks of the disbelievers. The Salajiqah, Sultan Salah al-Din al-Ayyubi, Sultan Muhammad al-Fatih and other heroes of Islam were Ash'aris and Maturidis.

You coming up after hundreds of years after them and simply calling them as enemies of Islam is just showing how brainwashed and deviant you are. You should really be ashamed of yourself for making such comments.

Ibn Qudaamah rightfully calls you out for your deceit.

Imam Ibn Qudamah was a major Hanbali scholar, but it does not mean that everything he says is correct or that his Anti-Ash'ari fanatism was something good.

And: He was a supporter of Tafwidh - unlike the followers of Ibn Taymiyyah - and he also recommended the seeking of intercession with the Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - (like other Hanabilah did), which according to your Wahhabi brothers this is Shirk akbar!
His position regarding the Kalam of Allah is not just different from that of the Ash'aris, but also different from that of Ibn Taymiyyah. He would have attacked your position in the same manner. Hope you know that.

AND: It's quite funny that you're trying to call Ash'aris as deceitful, while the Ash'aris clearly say what they believe and what not unlike the Hashwiyyah who try to hide their ugly I'tiqad.

Just tell us whether you're believing that God can be desribed with having physical / tangible attributes (or Sifat 'Ayniyyah Dhatiyyah as your beloved Ibn Taymiyyah would say) or not? I've asked that more than once, but didn't get any reply from you. Why? Are you trying to hide something?
FYI: ALL scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah (Ash'ari and non-Ash'ari!) regard it as Kufr to believe in such a thing, but guess what: Your Ibn Taymiyyah and your "Salafi" Mashayikh believe in this, we ask Allah ta'ala for well-being!

Here is an example of how you hide your lies. al-Bayjuuri says below

Imam al-Bajuri speaks regarding the Lafdh of the Qur`an. Do you even understand what that means? Why are you getting yourself into issues, which you haven't even comprehended fully?
FYI: Imam Bukhari's life got like hell, because some Hanbali zealots attacked him because of this very issue of the Lafdh. Imam Muslim defended him regarding this.

[Abu Sulayman]

Everyone can see in this thread how desperate the OP has been.

Are you sure? This thread was about the extremism in Takfir and bloodshed of the early Najdi movement, And it seems that no one could refute the qoutes that were presented. In fact we see the opposition acknowledging that the early Najdi movement did indeed kill many people!

After the issue of this thread has been already proven, you're trying to change the subject. So who's desperate?

He defends the fairy tales of his baatil sect. A sect which hides facts from the public because as al-Ghazaali admitted that not everyone has the "ability" to accept the truth.

Your comprehension skills are simply bad to say at least. First understand what a major scholar like Imam al-Ghazali said and then we can talk.

Now let's see what Imaam al-Tirmidhi says and how this OP once again lets his vile tongue loose in regards to a great muhaddith.

The funny and ironic thing is that Imam al-Tirmidhi's statement is against you, without you understanding that.
First of all: The Mu'tazilah and the Jahmiyyah did not believe that God can be described with attributes that are za`ida 'ala al-dhat and that's why believing that God can be desribed by seeing is wrong to them.
Then: For Imam al-Tirmidhi Sam', Basar and Yad are in the same category and this is one of the positions that Ash'aris hold.
The Ash'aris who said that believed that Basar, Sam' and Yad are all attributes subsisting in the essence of Allah.
Your Ibn Taymiyyah however says that that Yad is a tangible attribute and makes up the essence of God (because for him God's essence is made up of unseperable parts).
Sifat 'Ayniyyah Dhatiyyah... does that ring a bell? This by the way would be disbelief according to the very Imam al-Tirmidhi you're qouting!
So my advice: Don't qoute our own scholars against us.

As for the Ta`wil: This is differed upon among the scholars. Some allow Ta`wil, others don't. But the Ta`wil depends upon the context and the usage of the Arabs. So simply acting as if hand means power in every context or that it definitely means power in this context is wrong.

[Abu Sulayman]

Matters of Ijtihaad have resulted in fighting and killing by those better than Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhaab.

Wow, so now you're trying to justify the mass-killing of Muslims by the early Wahhabi movement? You know that what you're doing is nothing but sinful?

AND: Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab was in noo way on the level of Ijtihad. He was simply a student, who thought too much of himself and got completely crazy. His own teachers and his own brother clearly said that he was not qualified to make these types of rulings! Do you understand that?!!?
It seems for you the religion is some type of game, where every worthless and ignorant person can give his opinion and make all kind of verdicts concerning the blood of Muslims?!?

Have you forgotten the Battle of Siffiin?


That was based on a matter of Ijtihaad. That was fought between groups which compromised of the Companions (may Allaah be pleased with all of them).

First of all: This is completely off-topic and the battle of Siffin was a Fitnah.
Then: It's not like both sides were right. Imam 'Ali - karramallahu wajhahu - was right and those who faught against him were wrong!
The number of companions who sided against Imam 'Ali was not big, but rather very little. And we simply don't speak concerning them, because it is not befitting for us to do so, while their status is much higher than ours.
And: It's not like all people in both camps had good intentions, rather there were people in both camps who had ill intentions.

Anyways: How for God's sake has this do with our subject, where a simple student declared that none of his teachers and none of the scholars of the region understood Tawhid except him and then started to call his followers to the killing of all other Muslims? Why did ALL scholars in the region speak out against him?

Here you have had scholars prior to Muhammad bin abd al-Wahhaab declare the likes of the Ashaa'irah as kaafirs.

Ya Salam, look at this brainwashed child. Now he's trying to act as if Takfir upon Ash'aris is something normal.

Then: You're again showing everyone how ignorant you are.

Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab and his early followers did not simply make Takfir upon Ash'aris. The issue was not a "Wahhabi vs Ash'ari"-thing rather it was a "Wahhabi vs all other Muslims"-thing. The Wahhabis attacked the Ash'ari Sunnis and also the non-Ash'ari Sunnis.
They attacked the Zaydi Shi'ah (in Yemen) and the twelver Shi'ah (in 'Iraq).
They attacked the Ibadhiyyah (in 'Oman).
They even attacked someone like the Shaykh Ibn Fayruz - who was a known Hanbali scholar and huge Fan of Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn Qayyim (as acknowledged by Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab himself) - and declared him a disbeliever. He had to flee from them. So even admirers of Ibn Taymiyyah were not safe from them. Do you understand what that means?

This movement was simply crazy and bloodthirsty and attacked literally everone who was Muslim in any way or form! When I say "attacked" then I don't mean simply by words, but rather by the swords!

Imaam al-Tabari said anyone who thinks that the Qur'aan we recite is created then his wealth and blood is halaal.

You do know that Ash'aris don't deny the Istiwa` and that they don't regard the speech of Allah as created, do you?
By the way: Imam al-Tabari had basically the same beliefs as the early Ash'ari scholars. In one of his books he even says that the speech of Allah is an eternal attribute subsisting in the essence of Allah (this is what the Ash'aris say!).
He also regards it as Kufr to believe that God is subject to changes or that he has tangible attributes. He has quite many statements going against your creed. Didn't I tell you not qoute our own scholars against us?
But what should we say to ignorant people like you, who only can blindly repeat what "Salafi" Shuyukh say?

So please don't bring up random qoutes trying to act as if the scholars were trying to make Takfir of Ash'aris.

Then: There are qoutes by major scholars where it seems that they do Takfir of the Imamiyyah or the Mu'tazilah, If you however go into the detail of their words, you will see that they're actually only regarding some of their beliefs as Kufr, but they don't make Takfir upon them.
The same goes for your sect: You have some Kufri beliefs, but Takfir is not made.

Takfir is only made if someone denies something that is necessarily known to be from the religion.

And there is an entire book here which mentions early scholars who considered the Ashaa'irah as kaafirs.

Qouting a random hardcore "Salafi" book, which is filled with mistakes and lies, is not going to show anything. This only shows your ignorance and extremism.

Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhaab knew of all these sayings of classical scholars.

He made Ijtihaad. He was knowledgeable enough to do so.

Lol, if you're saying so.
No, he was not in any way or form qualified to do so. Stop embarassing yourself, please. You have actually no idea what his own teachers and his own brother said regarding him.

[Abu Sulayman]

What we see in the above qoutes of the opponents is how easy they're trying to justify the killing of other Muslims. What they don't understand is that Shaytan is playing a game with them and is using them against other Muslims.

This type of thinking only produces more disunity and problems among Muslims and is only benefitting the real enemies of Islam (like the Americans or the Zionists).

[ZeeshanParvez]

Zeeshan, why are trying to change the subject again? What kind of behaviour is this? The subject are not the Asha'irah, but rather the early Najdi / Wahhabi movement and their extremism in Takfir and bloodshed.

Other than that: Your above posts clearly show that you're ignorant regarding the issues you've mentioned. I advice you to stop talking without knowledge and embarassing yourself further. Blindly repeating what other "Salafis" have said is not an intelligent idea.



Your above post is pure extremism.

Read my post again: I called those who are justifying attacking Muslim cities and villages, killing their inhabitants, terrorizing them and taking their wealth, as enemies of Islam.

Now read what said: You're calling the Ash'aris as enemies of Islam, simply because they don't share your views or because you accuse them of being deceitful.

Do you see the great difference between these two statements?

AND: Most of the major scholars of this Ummah - especially those belonging to the Ahl al-Sunnah - where Ash'aris and Maturidis. The Ash'aris defended the religion for many many centuries from the attacks of the disbelievers. The Salajiqah, Sultan Salah al-Din al-Ayyubi, Sultan Muhammad al-Fatih and other heroes of Islam were Ash'aris and Maturidis.

You coming up after hundreds of years after them and simply calling them as enemies of Islam is just showing how brainwashed and deviant you are. You should really be ashamed of yourself for making such comments.



Imam Ibn Qudamah was a major Hanbali scholar, but it does not mean that everything he says is correct or that his Anti-Ash'ari fanatism was something good.

And: He was a supporter of Tafwidh - unlike the followers of Ibn Taymiyyah - and he also recommended the seeking of intercession with the Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - (like other Hanabilah did), which according to your Wahhabi brothers this is Shirk akbar!
His position regarding the Kalam of Allah is not just different from that of the Ash'aris, but also different from that of Ibn Taymiyyah. He would have attacked your position in the same manner. Hope you know that.

AND: It's quite funny that you're trying to call Ash'aris as deceitful, while the Ash'aris clearly say what they believe and what not unlike the Hashwiyyah who try to hide their ugly I'tiqad.

Just tell us whether you're believing that God can be desribed with having physical / tangible attributes (or Sifat 'Ayniyyah Dhatiyyah as your beloved Ibn Taymiyyah would say) or not? I've asked that more than once, but didn't get any reply from you. Why? Are you trying to hide something?
FYI: ALL scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah (Ash'ari and non-Ash'ari!) regard it as Kufr to believe in such a thing, but guess what: Your Ibn Taymiyyah and your "Salafi" Mashayikh believe in this, we ask Allah ta'ala for well-being!



Imam al-Bajuri speaks regarding the Lafdh of the Qur`an. Do you even understand what that means? Why are you getting yourself into issues, which you haven't even comprehended fully?
FYI: Imam Bukhari's life got like hell, because some Hanbali zealots attacked him because of this very issue of the Lafdh. Imam Muslim defended him regarding this.

The only one in a predicament is you.

I know exactly the nonsense al-Baqillaani tires to argue with to claim the recitation of the Qur'aan is created.

You have letters.

When you write alif laam miim

You have to write alif first

Then you have to write laam

Then you have to write miim

Then means there is something which is first and something which is last.


This is not possible for the Kalaam of Allah.

The Kalaam of Allah does not have first and last.

Hence, the Qur'aan is only an expression of Allaah and not his Kalaam which resides inside of Him.

I understand the matters completely.

You want to make it seem like I do not because that is how you Ashaa'irah act.

By means of hiding facts which if the masses found it they would reject your falsehood head on!

[ZeeshanParvez]

You do know that Ash'aris don't deny the Istiwa` and that they don't regard the speech of Allah as created, do you?
By the way: Imam al-Tabari had basically the same beliefs as the early Ash'ari scholars. In one of his books he even says that the speech of Allah is an eternal attribute subsisting in the essence of Allah (this is what the Ash'aris say!).
He also regards it as Kufr to believe that God is subject to changes or that he has tangible attributes. He has quite many statements going against your creed. Didn't I tell you not qoute our own scholars against us?
But what should we say to ignorant people like you, who only can blindly repeat what "Salafi" Shuyukh say?

Why do you always tell your audience half of the story? Or do you have reading comprehension issues? Wait, maybe like Ibn Qudaama said: You people must hide your true ideology!



The issue isn't about the speech of Allaah being in His Essence as the following Verse can be used for that

تَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِي وَلَا أَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِكَ

The issue is the separation of that from what we have with us in the form of the Qur'aan.



Imaam al-Tabari did not make that separation.




You Ashaa'irah. did. You clearly say that Allaah does not speak with words. He does not speak with a voice. The Qur'aan we have consists of words and is recited with a voice. Hence, according to your Baatil premise you cannot but make the separation.

Imaam al-Tabari is free from this Baatil. You know it. But you did not mention it!!! Deceitful as your clan.

For you the word Kalaam consists of meaning and not words. The meaning is what is not created. That is the Kalaam inside the Nafs of Allaah as your spearheads say in their books.

The words are what we have.


al-Baqillaani was one of the major spearheads of your movement.

He was the first to use the following Verse of the Qur'aan


إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ رَسُولٍ كَرِيمٍ


He refers to the Qur'aan as the nazm al-'arabi!!


It is the recitation of the Kalaam of Allaah which is inside of Him. And this recitation is the saying of Jibriil as per the above Verse!!



ثم اختلفوا في الذي عبر عن الكلام النفسي بهذا اللفظ والنظم العربي من هو؟
فقال بعضهم: هو جبريل، وقال بعضهم: بل هو محمد صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ.!!
واستدلوا بمثل قوله تعالى: ((إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ رَسُولٍ كَرِيمٍ))[الحاقة:40] في سورتي الحاقة والتكوير، حيث أضافه في الأولى إلى محمد صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وفي الأخرى إلى جبريل بأن اللفظ لأحد الرسولين "جبريل أو محمد" وقد صرح الباقلاني بالأول وتابعه الجويني


Screen shot from al-Baqillaani's book al-'insaaf where he does this



https://prnt.sc/kikena





Look at all of this theology which has nothing to do with Islaam.




The Companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) never indulged in it.


The only reason the ex-Maturidi Abu al-Hasan had to indulge in it was because as he made rujuu from the Mutazilah he had to refute them.

He had to find middle ground between what the ahl al-Sunnah were on and what the Mutazilah were upon.

So during his first rujuu he adopted this separation.


These are the facts of history. And if you deny them you are either an ignorant person brainwashed by your sect or you lie.

Take your pick.


If you accept them, then you know as well as I do that the theology used by your spearheads in regards to the Qur'aan is disgusting.

And all of this is related to the subject

Your grave worshiping and aqiidah which was declared kufr by many scholars is all tied in with what happened.

No one is changing any subject. We are just adding some more facts to this massive thread of yours.

Do you see more facts as a threat?

[ZeeshanParvez]

FYI: ALL scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah (Ash'ari and non-Ash'ari!) regard it as Kufr to believe in such a thing, but guess what: Your Ibn Taymiyyah and your "Salafi" Mashayikh believe in this, we ask Allah ta'ala for well-being!

The man comes here whining for being accused of kufr but does the same.

You confirm everything the Salafis have to say about you!

إن الحاصل فعلاً هو العكس، فـالأشاعرة هم الذين كفروا وما يزالون يكفرون أتباع السلف؛ بل كفروا كل من قال إن الله تعالى موصوف بالعلو -كما سيأتي هنا- وحسبك تكفيرهم واضطهادهم لـشَيْخ الإِسْلامِ

It is the Ashaa'irah who make takfiir and do not stop making takfiir of those who follow the Salaf. Rather, they make takfiir of everyone who says that Allaah has the attribute of uluw - as will come here - and it suffices you that they made takfiir of Shiekh al-Islaam and persecuted him.


Last time you gave me exactly what I wanted from you.

You have done the exact same this time over.

Every time its the same for you.

The pot calling the kettle black is what you are.

What we see in the above qoutes of the opponents is how easy they're trying to justify the killing of other Muslims. What they don't understand is that Shaytan is playing a game with them and is using them against other Muslims.

This type of thinking only produces more disunity and problems among Muslims and is only benefitting the real enemies of Islam (like the Americans or the Zionists).

Do you accept Ibn Taymiyyah as a Muslim?

Do you accept those who follow the Salafi creed as Muslim?

Allah is our witnesses. Tell the truth. Otherwise, stop the rhetoric.

Your lip service, otherwise, is nauseating.

[ZeeshanParvez]

The OP is a blatant liar. Or he purposely hides the facts of history.


It is known how the Ashaa'irah made takfiir in history.

But this Ashari fanatic won't tell you that. Why would he? He is deceitful.



The Ashaa'irah made takfiir of those who did not recognize Allaah by means of 'aqli evidences!

https://prnt.sc/kim7l6


The Ash'ari makes takfiir of the followers of Ahmad! Near end of page

https://prnt.sc/kim7l6



The filthy Ashaa'irah make takfiir of a Hanbali scholar

https://prnt.sc/kim8b1

https://prnt.sc/kim8ms

[ZeeshanParvez]

So, far the thread can be summarized as follows.


OP: You Salafis are on kufr. But don't you dare call me a kaafir. Don't hurt me.

You are on kufr but you can't call me a kaafir. Let's make peace while I keep saying you are on kufr but don't call me kaafir this is not right.


Lol

[ZeeshanParvez]

This Ash'ari lies to you when he says the Ashaa'irah do not make takfiir of the ahl al-Qiblah.

Take the look at what الشيراني writes


فمن اعتقد غير ما أشرنا إليه من اعتقاد أهل الحق المنتسبين إلى الإمام أبي الحسن الاشعري رضي الله عنه فهو كافر


He is a kaffir who believes other than what we have pointed to of the belief of the people of truth affiliated to Imaam al-Hasan al-ash'ari.


Ibn Qudaamah was correct

They hide their beliefs. They do not have the audacity to speak them out in public.


They tell you we do not make takfiir.


And just look at what their scholars say.


Lies.

OP please stop embarrassing yourself. Seriously....

[ZeeshanParvez]

Here is what the Ashaa'irah believe.

From the horses mouth


القرءان له إطلاقان

The word Qur'aan is used in two ways



الإطلاق الأول: يُطلق ويُراد به كلام الله الذي هو صفته، فهذا ليس حرف ولا صوت ولا لغة لأن الحروف متعاقبة والتعاقب علامة الحدوث، فمن قال (بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم) نطق بالباء ثم السين ثم الميم وهكذا

First usage: It is used to mean the Kalaam of Allaah which is His Sifah. This does not consist of letters or a voice and neither any language because letters follow one another and this is a sign huduuth (i.e. something did not exist and then came to exist). So, he who says Bism Allaah al-Rahmaan al-Rahiim will first pronounce Baa then Siin then Miim and so forth.



الإطلاق الثاني: يُطلق على القرءان ويُراد به اللفظ المنزل على سيدنا محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم وهذا لا شك أنه مخلوق، قال الله تعالى: { يُرِيدُونَ أَن يُبَدِّلُوا كَلامَ اللَّهِ} وهذا صريح في إطلاق كلام الله على اللفظ المنزّل، إذ الكفّار يريدون تغيير اللفظ المنزّل.

The second usage is to refer to the Qur'aan and what is intended is the word which was revealed to Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) and there is no doubt that this is created.


The Speech of Allah does not consist of letters and voice


The OP says Ashaa'irah do not make takfiir.

We have seen they do. They are the worst of all in making Takfiir.



He says al-Tabari says what they say. That is a lie as he did not make the above separation.



He talks about only Muhammad bin abd al-Wahhaab while ignoring that Islamic history is full of fights and hostility between his baatil sect and those on the way of the Salaf



In a nutshell, he says what he has to convince you that do not follow the way of the Salaf.


The purpose of the thread was not Muhammad bin abd al-Wahhaab. No that was not the purpose at all


It was to use him to discredit those on the way of the Salaf.


That is why he blew a fuse when I reminded him that Islamweb the modern Salafi website does not declare you kaafirs.


He wanted to use people's emotions by using Muhammad bin abd al-Wahhaab.


That is his true intentions. Anyone who bothers to read the whole thread will see that clearly.

[Abu Sulayman]

[Abu Sulayman]

There is another point here:
Zeeshan your group is a modern group and not an old one. The previous Hashwis still were different from you regarding many issues (and they were quite few!) and according to the Wahhabiyyah they would have been also polytheists and disbelievers.

So don't try to act as if the difference between the Ash'aris and you is an old one, because your group did not even exist back then.

Your group has mixed the ideas of Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab in 'Aqidah and the Anti-Madhhabism of al-Shawkani in Fiqh. This means you're a new group.

The spread of your group came with Saudi funding. The reason for this funding was that the West wanted this from the Saudis.

See what Muahmmad bin Salman said in an interview with the Washington post:

"Asked about the Saudi-funded spread of Wahhabism, the austere faith that is dominant in the kingdom and that some have accused of being a source of global terrorism, Mohammed said that investments in mosques and madrassas overseas were rooted in the Cold War, when allies asked Saudi Arabia to use its resources to prevent inroads in Muslim countries by the Soviet Union."

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.e62ed4859d8c

Your group is a tool in the hand of the West and the Zionists, even if you don't realize that.
'Iraq, Syria, Libya and Yemen are all proofs how they (West+Zionists) use Wahhabi groups to cause complete chaos and sectarian wars.
Look when you were able to lift up your heads: When the Muslims got weak and America and the Zionists got strong.
The Saudis are the dogs of the West and that of the Zionists and this has become clearer than ever before with this Ibn Salman.

The moment the Muslims get their strength back and the West and the Zionists get weak your group will follow their fate, because the spread of your group was initiated by them.

[ZeeshanParvez]

Your Ashaa'irah have made takfiir. They haven't said so and so is on kufr. They have said he is a kaafir. Go back and read the screenshots. For a person who accuses others of having bad reading skills yours are terrible.



The Salafi group of today is not a new one. You keep repeating yourself. That will do you no good.


We have already seen how you attacked Ibn Khuzaimah (may Allaah be pleased with him) and Imaam al-Daarimi (may Allaah be pleased with him)


Imaam al-Daarimi 255H. Imaam Ahmad bin Hanbal and IshaaQ were his teachers!


al-Dhahabi said:


Uthmaan al-Daarimi was a jidh' in the eyes of the innovators.



You went wild regarding his book رد الدارمي على بشر المريسي


You know why? Because you and your sect is one of innovators!


No one persecuted him. You know why? Because what he wrote were the beliefs of those on the way of the Salaf.




Tell us:


Which Companion (may Allaah be pleased with him) talked about there being Kalaam in the Nafs of Allaah.
Which Companion (may Allaah be pleased with him) said that the Arabic composition of the Qur'aan is the saying of Jibriil
Which Companion (may Allaah be pleased with him) said the word Qur'aan is used for two things and when used for the word revealed to Muhammad (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) it is created
Which Companion (may Allaah be pleased with him) talked about ilm al-kalaam to justify the existence of Allaah
Which Companion (may Allaah be pleased with him) talked about الجوهر and العرض


If you cannot then let it be known that you are a sect of innovators.


And answer what your spearheads say:


Take the look at what الشيراني writes


فمن اعتقد غير ما أشرنا إليه من اعتقاد أهل الحق المنتسبين إلى الإمام أبي الحسن الاشعري رضي الله عنه فهو كافر


He is a kaffir who believes other than what we have pointed to of the belief of the people of truth affiliated to Imaam al-Hasan al-ash'ari.


Obviously you want me to stop sharing quotes. They are showing everyone the hidden facts of your sect. How horrible that must be for you. Torment. Tragedy.



As far as I see it, you hide facts.

The fact is that Ibn Qudaamah was right about your aqiidah. He was right that you hide it.


He was not the only one.


Imaam Abu Nasr al-sijzi.



He died in 444H. He said the exact same thing about your sect! You say things in the open which are in accordance with the ahl al-Sunnah while in your groups you say the exact opposite.


Go read his risaalah.

[ZeeshanParvez]

As for their making apparent that which is opposed to what they believe, like the doing of the heretics, is in regards to saying we affirm the istiwaa of Allaah upon the 'arsh while from their belief is that it is not permissible that Allaah be characterized with that He is in the Heaven nor in the Earth and nor on the 'arsh and nor above.



https://prnt.sc/kj0mzf


Please correct my reading comprehension skills here! Please.


He just compared your action of hiding your true belief to the actions of the heretics.

You claim Allaah made istiwaa on the Throne.

But in reality you believe He cannot be in the Heaven nor the Earth and nor on the 'arsh or above.




Just like Ibn Qudaamah, this Imaam, who was before Ibn Qudaamah, says the exact same thing about you.


Ibn Qudaamah mentions how the guy he talked to got really angry when he had no answers. Ibn Qudaamah said to him you believe in two Qur'aans! Astaghfirullah for your beliefs.



So, seriously hat you claim in this thread is all taqiyyah.


Taqiyyah.



Imaam Abu Nasr al-sijzi called you out for it. He was before Ibn Taymiyyah. Go on blame Ibn Taymiyyah for his actions!!!
Imaam Ibn Qudaamah called you out for it.


You hate Imaam al-Daarimi. He wrote a book against the Jahmiyyah but you hate him!!



That says it all.....