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The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than ISIS

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    #46
    Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    Originally posted by abdullahore View Post
    That's strange because it would seem like most Saudi scholars nowadays are against rebellion against any ruler (especially Al-Saud) under most circumstances.

    The ikhtilaf is very convenient here.
    most these days set the condition of open kufr or anti-shariah in order to make the rebellion permissible which is a legit reason actually in this case it becomes obligation for people to put someone out of the power position, However there are scholars (even salafi/wahabi ones) who say rebellion against unjust ruler or tyrannical ruler even if he is Muslim is not haraam, it depends on the situation and have weight the pro and cons eg: if we are certain that the aftermath evil is less compare to the greater evil of the unjust ruler.

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      #47
      Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

      however it doesn't mean we have to bring chaos in the name of "rebellion to remove unjust ruler", this is the what most people will do in the name of protest especially the ill tampered impatient muslims of today who are half baked muslims anyway.

      Comment


        #48
        Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

        Originally posted by abdullahore View Post
        That's strange because it would seem like most Saudi scholars nowadays are against rebellion against any ruler (especially Al-Saud) under most circumstances.

        The ikhtilaf is very convenient here.
        Good point.
        "The organisation that is called as "the state" puts effort to destroy jihad in Sham as they destroyed it in Iraq because of their obvious transgressions against Quran and Sunnah." Abu Khalid as-Suri (Rahimahullah)

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          #49
          Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

          Originally posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post
          The description of the khawarij described in hadith are the timeless characterisitics. The exact beliefs of various khariji groups differed from time to time but their actions and enmity to the main body of Muslims is something that remained.

          So in the same way we can say ISIS are the khawarij of our era even though they acknowledge the khulafa ar-rashideen, the same way ibn Aabideen said about the original Wahabis.

          I'm not saying they were or were not khawarij, just acknowledging that Sunni scholars of their era did call them that.
          Good point

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            #50
            Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

            This is off topic, but what happened to the ISIS thread in current events, was it closed or am I banned from it? Does a mod know?

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              #51
              These same arguments were made on Islamic awakening by a member name ... Pluto?

              I can't remember his name.

              Interesting read.
              If you were in the clouds, Allah would raise us to you or lower you to us for battle.

              said this to the Byzantine troops when they retreated from the battle field to the fortified town of Chalcis.

              - Khalid ibn Walid

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                #52
                Originally posted by Fais View Post
                These same arguments were made on Islamic awakening by a member name ... Pluto?

                I can't remember his name.

                Interesting read.
                Pluma
                http://kondori.wordpress.com/

                Like this page on FB
                HasbunAllah Wani'mal Wakeel | حسبنا الله ونعم الوكيل

                Allah is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs.

                "...its better to light a small candle than to curse the darkness..."

                "We need to emphasise that differences of fiqh are the not the depth of religion, the depth of religion is piety." ~
                Shaykh Akram Nadwi


                Salātullāhi wa Salāmuhu ‘alayka ya Rasūlallāh


                http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj...2vbxo1_500.jpg

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                  #53
                  Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                  Originally posted by Fais View Post
                  These same arguments were made on Islamic awakening by a member name ... Pluto?

                  I can't remember his name.

                  Interesting read.
                  Originally posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post
                  Pluma

                  Didn't Abu Sulayman (the OP) also make this exact thread (on wahabis being khawarij) on IA?

                  Comment


                    #54
                    The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than ISIS

                    Yeah they're different people. Abu Sulayman had a bigger agenda which looked like was to promote the Ashaa'irah whereas Pluma was willing to discuss the historical events.
                    http://kondori.wordpress.com/

                    Like this page on FB
                    HasbunAllah Wani'mal Wakeel | حسبنا الله ونعم الوكيل

                    Allah is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs.

                    "...its better to light a small candle than to curse the darkness..."

                    "We need to emphasise that differences of fiqh are the not the depth of religion, the depth of religion is piety." ~
                    Shaykh Akram Nadwi


                    Salātullāhi wa Salāmuhu ‘alayka ya Rasūlallāh


                    http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj...2vbxo1_500.jpg

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                      I knew I read it somewhere before.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                        Originally posted by Abdalla94' View Post
                        Didn't Abu Sulayman (the OP) also make this exact thread (on wahabis being khawarij) on IA?
                        There has been loads of threads on miaw in IA, some Asharis like Abu Suleiman and others were Athari in AQeedah

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                          Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab (d. 1206 AH) accuses the people of al-Ahsa` of worshipping idols:

                          While addressing someone who is from al-Ahsa`, he tells him that idols are worshipped in his land (which is again a clear-cut lie!):

                          وقد بلغني أنكم في هذا الأمر قمتم وقعدتم، فإن كنتم تزعمون أن هذا إنكار للمنكر، فيا ليت قيامكم كان في عظائم في بلدكم تضاد أصلي الإسلام: شهادة أن لا إله إلا الله وأن محمداً رسول الله! منها، وهو أعظمها: عبادة الأصنام عندكم من بشر وحجر

                          Source:
                          al-Rasa`il al-Shakhsiyyah

                          His blind followers attacked al-Ahsa` (which by the way is Ottoman land!), slaughtered its people, destroyed their property and stole whatever they could take several times during his lifetime and also after him. So let's see what they did in one of these attacks:


                          Terrorizing and mass-slaugtering the people of al-Ahsa`

                          Ibn Bishr (d. 1288 AH) said while speaking about the incidents of the year 1210 AH:

                          فلما كان قبل طلوع الشمس ثور المسلمون بنادقهم دفعة واحدة , فأرجفت الأرض وأظلمت السماء , وثار عج الدخان في الجو , وأسقط كثير من الحوامل في الأحساء , ثم نزل سعود في الرقيقة المذكورة , فسلم له , وظهر له جميع أهل الأحساء على إحسانه وإساءته , وأمرهم بالخروج فخرجوا , فأقام في ذلك المنزل مدّة أشهر يقتل من أراد قتله ويجلي من أراد جلاءه ، ويحبس من أراد حبسه ، ويأخذ من الأموال ، ويهدم من المحال ، ويبني ثغوراً ، ويهدم دوراً ، وضرب عليهم ألوفاً من الدراهم وقبضها منهم ... وأكثر سعود فيهم القتل ... فهذا مقتول في البلد ، وهذا يخرجونه إلى الخيام ، ويضرب عنقه عند خيمة سعود ، حتى أفناهم إلا قليلا ، وحاز سعود من الأموال في تلك الغزوة ما لا يعد ولا يحصى

                          "Then before the sunrise the Muslims (read: the Wahhabis) shot with their rifles [all at] once, so that the earth trembled, and the heaven became dark, and smoke rose into the sky and many of the pregnant women (!!!) in al-Ahsa` had a miscarriage (due to extreme fear).
                          Then Sa'ud settled in the [earlier] mentioned al-Raqiqah, so it was given to him. All of the people of al-Ahsa` [then] appeared in front of him in kindness and badness. He commanded them to leave so they left.
                          He stayed there for [several] months [while] kiling whomever he wanted to kill, and exiling whomever he wanted to exile, and imprisoning whomever he wanted to imprison, and taking from the wealth, and destroying places, and building strongholds, and destroying houses and wanting thousands of Dirhams from them and taking it from them...
                          And Sa'ud killed many of them...
                          So this one [lies] killed in the land and that one is taken out to the tents and his neck is struck off near the tent of Sa'ud until he annhalited [all of] them except very few.

                          Sa'ud came into possesion of [much] wealth in this attack (Ghazwah) which can not be counted or numbered."

                          Source: 'Unwan al-Majd 1/216-217

                          (Remember: Sa'ud I. bin 'Abd al-'Aziz [bin Muhammad bin Sa'ud] (d. 1229 AH) later on (i.e. 1218 AH) became the third ruler of the first Saudi state and was a direct student of Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab.)
                          Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 09-05-15, 02:31 PM.

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                            #58
                            Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                            Originally posted by Abd al-Rahman View Post
                            I bet the writer of this believes in haazir naazir, I bet the writer belives Rassullulah(saw) has knowledge of the unseen and that he is in Bristol and Mogadishu and Johannesberg and Lahore and in my house all at the same time. Audhubillahi minash shaytan ir rajeem
                            loooooooooooool at bristol and mogadishu. A teleporting prophet audubillah

                            Reminds me of snake nazim who said he could fly.

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                              Originally posted by Dinobot View Post
                              loooooooooooool at bristol and mogadishu. A teleporting prophet audubillah

                              Reminds me of snake nazim who said he could fly.
                              And Ahmed barelvi had no evidence for any of it
                              وَمَا قَدَرُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ قَدْرِهِ وَالْأَرْضُ جَمِيعًا قَبْضَتُهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَالسَّمَاوَاتُ مَطْوِيَّاتٌ بِيَمِينِهِ ۚ سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَىٰ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ
                              They have not appraised Allah with true appraisal, while the earth entirely will be [within] His grip on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him. (Az-Zumar: 67)

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                                Originally posted by PiriReis View Post
                                True a huge bulk of Najd was not ruled directly by the Ottomans. But Makkah and Medinah were Ottoman territories. And Ibn Abdul Wahhab's rebellion did reach the two holy cities. Plus they attacked Ottoman trade routes.

                                That rebellion was efficiently crushed in a punitive war. Diriyah was completely destroyed. Abdullah ibn Saud was executed.

                                Later on in World War I, the same Saudis sided with the British against the Ottomans.

                                Or were you guys happy when the Ottomans lost control of everything and the Europeans got to carve out the entire region for themselves?

                                Wahhabis of those times also did not view Turks worthy enough to rule the Islamic world. They upheld a false belief that only Arabs could rule.


                                Shaykh ul Islam when to jihad with the grave worshippers . He and the Saudi king allied and stopped this . But when the king was killed the Saudi royal family lost their love for Islam and jihad .

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