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The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than ISIS

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  • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    Originally posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
    I don't know why spicen was banned, hope it wasn't because of this thread because at least on arab supremacism there's truth to what was being said.
    It is a problem that exists there's no denying this. Just take a look at a large section of the arab world and see how non arabs are treated. Having the virtue of a good lineage, is not supremacy. Those are two different things.
    Yes the prophet of Allah :saw: was sent amongst the arabs of that time, prophets from all different backgrounds were sent to all kinds of different nations before the arabs. But this time, Allah chose the arabs. At least if the argument was that the sahaba are superior and they were mostly arab so therefore arabs were superior, it would make sense in that context and for that time, of course the sahaba were/are superior and they were the ones spreading islam. They were an example for everybody else, many of whom were non arabs accepting islam.

    But to say in 2017 that 'arabs' are superior because the prophet :saw: was from amongst them and because the quran is in arabic makes no sense. It's laughable actually that some 'arabs' really feel this way. First of all, arabs are a minority now and whose really arab today and whose just a mix of things. Secondly, a lot of arabs don't even know arabic, thirdly, if you know the meaning of supremacy you would see that arabs today are not superior in any way, shape or form but the delusion is strong lol. Countries like saudi are the laughing stock of the world, don't even get me started on the rest of the arab lands and their leaders. Just look at syria and how turkey is the only place doing anything helpful. Look how syrian refugees are being treated by other 'arabs' in surrounding countries. Look at Yemen. Arabs who feel superior need to get off their high horse and understand the reality they and the rest of the ummah are living in. If anyone can claim superiority in our time it's whites.

    In a masjid recently, a non arab sheikh said "we need arab scholars, we need them to learn our deen, we can't do it without arab scholars" arab this and arab that. This is what some places are feeding the youth. Total nonsense. We only need to look through history and look at the world today to know that some of the biggest scholars weren't/aren't arab.
    What you wrote above in red makes you a part of ash-Shu'ubiyyah which is a deviated sect according to Ahl as-Sunnah.

    Just so you know, you contradicted the consensus of Ahl as-Sunnah on the subject.

    Some Arabs at the time of the Prophet SAWS were also considered among the worst of creation in Disbelief and Hypocrisy. How is that any different than today?

    http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?opt...1597&Itemid=64

    Rather, the false superiority that non-Arabs exert over the rest of the world is the issue because so many ignorant Muslims fall for it.

    The consensus of Ahl as-Sunnah is that the Arabs are superior to non-Arabs. Anyone who disagrees with this is a deviant and not part of Ahl as-Sunnah in this regard. That sect who disagrees with this is called Shu'ubiyyah.

    Disagree with me all you like, however that's not going to change the fact. I can provide many quotes from the classical and later scholars proving the above.

    And the typical quotes people like to bring from the Farewell Hajj Khutbah of the Prophet SAWS and the verses from the Quran only address individuals not whole cultures/tribes. The superiority of the Arabs is mentioned in virtually every Hadith compilation and book of Fiqh from every Madh'hab. It is mentioned in all the Tafaaseer.

    Comment


    • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

      Betraying the Ottomans didn't make sense from an Islamic pov. I get it they were "committing shirk" etc, but isn't having some form of Khilafa better than not?.. it seems that where there's smoke there's fire. Ibn Abdul Wahhab shouldn't be put on a pedestal, or made him out to be some infallible person. If his teaching led to takfir and bloodshed then he should be criticized on that. But people seem to get really defensive, obviously you have your usual suspects (sufi Ashari) but not everyone who's interested in this aspect of history is sufi nor ashari. I just have a hard time believing that he was the only one upon the Haqq and everyone else was upon shirk.
      "The organisation that is called as "the state" puts effort to destroy jihad in Sham as they destroyed it in Iraq because of their obvious transgressions against Quran and Sunnah." Abu Khalid as-Suri (Rahimahullah)

      Comment


      • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

        Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post
        Some Arabs at the time of the Prophet SAWS were also considered among the worst of creation in Disbelief and Hypocrisy. How is that any different than today?
        http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?opt...1597&Itemid=64
        Nobody said it's any different today, this is the whole point. There were reasons why they were considered the worst, there were reasons why the companions were considered the best, or why some companions were praised more than others, there were reasons why arabs were praised and considered better. Remove these reasons and you can't claim the status stays the same.
        If we are using the word "superior" or "supremacy" then these are obviously english words which have a specific definition. Part of superiority or supremacy is dominance, authority, leadership and subjugation over others, non of which arabs today have. You can't just claim to be superior without meeting any requirements. You can't be a secularist, a nationalist, a racict, a hypocrite, a filthy human being inside and out but claim you are superior to an upright believer just because you happen to be arab. In this case lineage has no benefit.

        But if an arab is pious then their good lineage is an added virtue and an honour for them, that's on an individual level. When it comes to arabs in general, if the majority of them are upright believers who are leading the ummah into goodness then their lineage is an added virtue for them. Today arab leaders are doing the complete opposite and we don't even need to talk about the reality of how the deen is practised in many arab lands. Yet some of them have the audacity to look down on everyone else and treat them like sub-humans while they themselves are slaves to the west. You can't be superior if you are a slave. That's common sense. You can't be superior if you're ruling with another man's laws and system.
        Rather, the false superiority that non-Arabs exert over the rest of the world is the issue because so many ignorant Muslims fall for it.
        I don't know which planet you live on but where on earth do you see non arabs exerting superiority over the rest of the world except white western nations?
        If a non arab nation/leader manages to gain authority, defend the muslims and protect their lands and establish a place for muslims to practice their deen freely and with dignity, then it wouldn't be "false superiority" in the real world, superiority is dominance and leadership. However they won't have the added virtue of an arab lineage. If 'arabs' want supremacy, let them take control, be leaders, and show some of the characteristics that arabs used to be praised for.
        The consensus of Ahl as-Sunnah is that the Arabs are superior to non-Arabs. Anyone who disagrees with this is a deviant and not part of Ahl as-Sunnah in this regard. That sect who disagrees with this is called Shu'ubiyyah.
        Disagree with me all you like, however that's not going to change the fact. I can provide many quotes from the classical and later scholars proving the above.
        They're going to have a field day with this post. Declaring me and others to be from a deviated sect because we don't agree with YOUR bad explanation is nonsense.
        you're over simplifying something that isn't black and white. Never mind the fact that who is and isn't arab is debatable especially now when arabs have mixed with others. Read post 551.
        I've never had a problem with any narration about arab lineage and nobility. But as with anything, the meaning needs to be explained and i'm happy with the explanations that i've heard from scholars (i'm not looking for a new one from people off the internet). It's a balanced approach, although personally I think the word 'superior' needs to be looked at more carefully which is the word most use to translate the concept into english. In english it has a negative connotation and a history behind it which needs to be taken into consideration. There are so many other issues like this where the translation sometimes becomes a problem or is understood the wrong way.
        And the typical quotes people like to bring from the Farewell Hajj Khutbah of the Prophet SAWS and the verses from the Quran only address individuals
        why? and according to who?
        شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
        فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
        وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
        ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

        Comment


        • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

          Originally posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
          are you serious?
          smh
          Excuse me ? What do you shake your head at ?

          I have mentioned that I am ignorant on the Shaykhss position regarding Shafa'a. History seems to suggest ( from what is apparent ) that it may have been Kufr Akbar.

          My confusion is mostly due to what I have come to know of Ibn Uthaymeen (rah) who did not believe that it expells one out the religion. Sufis argue that he did view this specific tawasul as kufr akbar , and it is one of their central evidences when they label him a heretic / innovator.

          If you were confused because I am not completely in tune with the Shaykhs specific positions on certain matters - yet praise the Arabian Peninsula for providing the soundest Islamic theology ( Relatively speaking ) , then I do not see what is so problematic ? Salafi Aqidah is not dependent on any one individual. In this regard , their benefit outweighs their harm.

          Jazak Allah khair .

          Comment


          • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

            Assalamu alaykom

            Sister , out of curiosity , what type of Islaam do you identify yourself with ? Do you hold any methodology / scholarship above another ? Or do you apply your own reasoning in what you derive from the texts and rely on your own general perception that you have of Islaam ?

            I have noticed on another occasion you have responded to someone promoting orthodox beliefs with words similar to ..

            Originally posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
            They're going to have a field day with this post.
            Spicen is a deviant and a heretic by his own admission within this and other threads. Not to trash him behind his back , I trash him publicly and privately between the two of us as well - but him said these words ( Paraphrasing ) " Orthodox opinion is such and such , but I don't follow the orthodox ".

            Unorthodox positions are innovations , and heresies.

            I am not directly charging you as an outright deviant , or not a Sunni Muslim - but we do differ with you on matters which I do not believe Sunni Islam has alternative positions on ( Arab / Male Superiority )

            What I do believe though , is that you guys have a misconception on what is implied when these issues are brought up .... [ I just deleted what I wrote in hopes not to side track my question , if you choose to answer it. ]

            "Sister , out of curiosity , what type of Islaam do you identify yourself with ? Do you hold any methodology / scholarship above another ? Or do you apply your own reasoning in what you derive from the texts and rely on your own general perception that you have of Islaam ?
            Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 10-09-17, 05:57 PM.

            Comment


            • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

              Originally posted by noobz View Post
              hes doing your interrogation , answer him before he arrests you and puts u infront a jury, judge and executioner, all played by him.
              Let him cry.

              Volume 4, Book 54, Number 521: (Sahih Bukhari)

              Narrated 'Uqba bin 'Umar and Abu Mas'ud: Allah's Apostle pointed with his hand towards Yemen and said, "True Belief is Yemenite yonder (i.e. the Yemenite, had True Belief and embraced Islam readily), but sternness and mercilessness are the qualities of those who are busy with their camels and pay no attention to the Religion where the two sides of the head of Satan will appear. Such qualities belong to the tribe of Rabi'a and Mudar."


              See the map attached,
              both these tribes are to the east of Madinah i.e Najd region.
              Attached Files
              "Europe died in Bosnia and was buried in Syria. Bodies of innocent children washing ashore are the
              western civilization's tombstones"


              Rajab Tayyab Erdogan

              Comment


              • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                when the prophet(sws) said in his last sermon , no arab is superior over a non arab and vice versa


                and then you have another statement where it is said arabs are superior ...


                what makes that an add on and not a contradiction? ... and how sound are both hadiths?



                Comment


                • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                  Originally posted by imran1976 View Post
                  Let him cry.

                  Volume 4, Book 54, Number 521: (Sahih Bukhari)

                  Narrated 'Uqba bin 'Umar and Abu Mas'ud: Allah's Apostle pointed with his hand towards Yemen and said, "True Belief is Yemenite yonder (i.e. the Yemenite, had True Belief and embraced Islam readily), but sternness and mercilessness are the qualities of those who are busy with their camels and pay no attention to the Religion where the two sides of the head of Satan will appear. Such qualities belong to the tribe of Rabi'a and Mudar."


                  See the map attached,
                  both these tribes are to the east of Madinah i.e Najd region.
                  whats funny is despite all the evidence of najd and the supporting hadiths of evil coming from there , all these types totally ignore all sahih hadiths and take the 'tawhid' argument.

                  The khawarij also used these arguments for executing muslims and calling them kaffir.



                  Comment


                  • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                    Originally posted by noobz View Post
                    whats funny is despite all the evidence of najd and the supporting hadiths of evil coming from there , all these types totally ignore all sahih hadiths and take the 'tawhid' argument.

                    The khawarij also used these arguments for executing muslims and calling them kaffir.
                    You can also see the maps in Atlas of Quran & Atlas of Seerat un Nabi :saw: , published by Darussalam --- These maps have shown Najd to the east of Madinah ( salafis insist that Najd is Iraq)
                    "Europe died in Bosnia and was buried in Syria. Bodies of innocent children washing ashore are the
                    western civilization's tombstones"


                    Rajab Tayyab Erdogan

                    Comment


                    • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                      Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
                      Assalamu alaykom

                      Sister , out of curiosity , what type of Islaam do you identify yourself with ? Do you hold any methodology / scholarship above another ? Or do you apply your own reasoning in what you derive from the texts and rely on your own general perception that you have of Islaam ?

                      I have noticed on another occasion you have responded to someone promoting orthodox beliefs with words similar to ..



                      Spicen is a deviant and a heretic by his own admission within this and other threads. Not to trash him behind his back , I trash him publicly and privately between the two of us as well - but him said these words ( Paraphrasing ) " Orthodox opinion is such and such , but I don't follow the orthodox ".

                      Unorthodox positions are innovations , and heresies.

                      I am not directly charging you as an outright deviant , or not a Sunni Muslim - but we do differ with you on matters which I do not believe Sunni Islam has alternative positions on ( Arab / Male Superiority )

                      What I do believe though , is that you guys have a misconception on what is implied when these issues are brought up .... [ I just deleted what I wrote in hopes not to side track my question , if you choose to answer it. ]

                      "Sister , out of curiosity , what type of Islaam do you identify yourself with ? Do you hold any methodology / scholarship above another ? Or do you apply your own reasoning in what you derive from the texts and rely on your own general perception that you have of Islaam ?
                      No I don't pull random ideas out of thin air. If you read this thread a few pages back I think it is pretty clear what I follow. Most would probably put me in the salafi category and some salafis would probably say i'm 'off the manhaj' but I don't like labels.
                      I don't agree with spicen or those attacking MIAW/salafiyyah in general but i'm open to hearing what they have to say. And if there is some small amount of truth in something they say then I acknowledge that. There are things that happen within the salafi community and a way some salafis carry themselves that I don't like or agree with. That doesn't make mean I've deviated.

                      Instead of implying i'm some deviant based on nothing, why don't any of you address the pure racist article posted above where non arabs are compared to faeces all under the cloak of islam.
                      Which scholar interpreted any narration about arab lineage to mean you get a free pass to be arrogant and treat people like they are dirt beneath you. I understand why so many have a strong dislike/hate for arabs today (keyword= understand).

                      As I said, I try not to make things up, what I said is actually exactly the same as something sheikh albani said. He said there were REASONS why arabs had precedence. Which is what I said. And not once was the word 'superior' used in reference to arabs in his answer that I read except when he was quoting "there is no superiority of an arab over a non arab except by taqwah". See this is the difference between how people who have knowledge explain things and how some of you throw loaded terms around with no wisdom and then claim others are deviant on top of it for opposing your black and white interpretation.
                      Last edited by Rumaysah~; 10-09-17, 11:52 PM.
                      شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
                      فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
                      وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
                      ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

                      Comment


                      • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                        Originally posted by imran1976 View Post
                        You can also see the maps in Atlas of Quran & Atlas of Seerat un Nabi :saw: , published by Darussalam --- These maps have shown Najd to the east of Madinah ( salafis insist that Najd is Iraq)
                        And, as it seems is the norm on this forum, it is too much to ask to expect that before people take the apparent meaning of a Hadith, that they check the scholarly explanations of the Hadith beforehand.

                        In that case you would find that the earliest explanations of the books of Hadith are very clear about what is referred to as "the East" or "our Najd" in the Ahadith.

                        In case you you don't have easy access, let me quote for you the explanation of Ibn Battaal, an Maliki scholar from the 5th century Hijri:

                        قال الخطابى: القرن فى الحيوان يضرب به المثل فيما لا يحمد من الأمور، كقوله (صلى الله عليه وسلم) فى الفتنة وطلوعها من ناحية المشرق: (ومنه يطلع قرن الشيطان) وقال فى الشمس أنها تطلع بين قرنى الشيطان، والقرن: الأمة من الناس يُحدثون بعد فناء آخرين، قال الشاعر: إذا ما مضى القرن الذى أنت منهم وخلفت فى قرن فأنت غريب وقال غيره: كان أهل المشرق يومئذ أهل كفر فأخبره (صلى الله عليه وسلم) أن الفتنة تكون من تلك الناحية، وكذلك كانت الفتنة الكبرى التى كانت مفتاح فساد ذات البين وهى مقتل عثمان، رضى الله عنه، وكانت سبب وقعة الجمل وصفين، ثم ظهور الخوارج فى أرض نجد والعراق وما وراءها من المشرق، ومعلوم أن البدع إنما ابتدأت من المشرق، وإن كان الذين اقتتلوا بالجمل وصفين بينهم كثير من أهل الشام والحجاز فإن الفتنة وقعت فى ناحية المشرق، وكان ذلك سببًا إلى افتراق كلمة المسلمين وفساد نيات كثير منهم إلى يوم القيامة، وكان رسول الله يحذر من ذلك ويعلمه قبل وقوعه، وذلك دليل على نبوّته

                        "And the people of the East at that time [of the Hadith] were people of Disbelief, thus he SAWS informed that the Fitnah would be from that direction. And likewise the Great Fitnah that would open up clear corruption and it is the murder of Uthman RA. It was the reason for the occurrence of al-Jamal and Siffin. Then the Khawaarij emerged in the land of Najd and al-Iraaq and what is beyond them from the East..."

                        Here Ibn Battaal is actually quoting al-Khattabi, an even early 3rd century scholar who explained the Hadith compilations.

                        Just in case you might think I'm cherry picking Shuruuh, then here is Ibn Hajar from Fat'h al-Bari 13/47:

                        مَا قَالَهُ الدَّاوُدِيُّ إِنَّ نَجْدًا مِنْ نَاحِيَةِ الْعِرَاقِ فَإِنَّهُ تَوَهَّمَ أَنَّ نَجْدًا مَوْضِعٌ مَخْصُوصٌ وَلَيْسَ كَذَلِكَ بَلْ كُلُّ شَيْءٍ ارْتَفَعَ بِالنِّسْبَةِ إِلَى مَا يَلِيهِ يُسَمَّى الْمُرْتَفِعُ نَجْدًا

                        "What ad-Dawudi said, "Indeed Najd is from the direction of al-Iraaq," then he is mistaken that "Najd" is a specific place and it is not the case. Rather every thing that rises in comparison to what is below it- that risen part is called "Najd"..."

                        Please, please, please- before anyone speaks about the meaning of a Hadith and judges people based on it, at least check the authoritative explanations for the Hadith.

                        And if you're incapable of at least doing that, then just be quiet...

                        Comment


                        • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                          Even this alleged bloodshed by "wahhabis" pales in comparison to the bloodshed and destruction caused by various kafir regimes like Turkey and Pakistan along with their kafir allies. Kinda ironic then to see supporters of these kufr regime talk about bloodshed but what can you expect from kufr supporting munafiqeen.

                          Comment


                          • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                            Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post
                            And, as it seems is the norm on this forum, it is too much to ask to expect that before people take the apparent meaning of a Hadith, that they check the scholarly explanations of the Hadith beforehand.

                            In that case you would find that the earliest explanations of the books of Hadith are very clear about what is referred to as "the East" or "our Najd" in the Ahadith.

                            In case you you don't have easy access, let me quote for you the explanation of Ibn Battaal, an Maliki scholar from the 5th century Hijri:

                            قال الخطابى: القرن فى الحيوان يضرب به المثل فيما لا يحمد من الأمور، كقوله (صلى الله عليه وسلم) فى الفتنة وطلوعها من ناحية المشرق: (ومنه يطلع قرن الشيطان) وقال فى الشمس أنها تطلع بين قرنى الشيطان، والقرن: الأمة من الناس يُحدثون بعد فناء آخرين، قال الشاعر: إذا ما مضى القرن الذى أنت منهم وخلفت فى قرن فأنت غريب وقال غيره: كان أهل المشرق يومئذ أهل كفر فأخبره (صلى الله عليه وسلم) أن الفتنة تكون من تلك الناحية، وكذلك كانت الفتنة الكبرى التى كانت مفتاح فساد ذات البين وهى مقتل عثمان، رضى الله عنه، وكانت سبب وقعة الجمل وصفين، ثم ظهور الخوارج فى أرض نجد والعراق وما وراءها من المشرق، ومعلوم أن البدع إنما ابتدأت من المشرق، وإن كان الذين اقتتلوا بالجمل وصفين بينهم كثير من أهل الشام والحجاز فإن الفتنة وقعت فى ناحية المشرق، وكان ذلك سببًا إلى افتراق كلمة المسلمين وفساد نيات كثير منهم إلى يوم القيامة، وكان رسول الله يحذر من ذلك ويعلمه قبل وقوعه، وذلك دليل على نبوّته

                            "And the people of the East at that time [of the Hadith] were people of Disbelief, thus he SAWS informed that the Fitnah would be from that direction. And likewise the Great Fitnah that would open up clear corruption and it is the murder of Uthman RA. It was the reason for the occurrence of al-Jamal and Siffin. Then the Khawaarij emerged in the land of Najd and al-Iraaq and what is beyond them from the East..."

                            Here Ibn Battaal is actually quoting al-Khattabi, an even early 3rd century scholar who explained the Hadith compilations.

                            Just in case you might think I'm cherry picking Shuruuh, then here is Ibn Hajar from Fat'h al-Bari 13/47:

                            مَا قَالَهُ الدَّاوُدِيُّ إِنَّ نَجْدًا مِنْ نَاحِيَةِ الْعِرَاقِ فَإِنَّهُ تَوَهَّمَ أَنَّ نَجْدًا مَوْضِعٌ مَخْصُوصٌ وَلَيْسَ كَذَلِكَ بَلْ كُلُّ شَيْءٍ ارْتَفَعَ بِالنِّسْبَةِ إِلَى مَا يَلِيهِ يُسَمَّى الْمُرْتَفِعُ نَجْدًا

                            "What ad-Dawudi said, "Indeed Najd is from the direction of al-Iraaq," then he is mistaken that "Najd" is a specific place and it is not the case. Rather every thing that rises in comparison to what is below it- that risen part is called "Najd"..."

                            Please, please, please- before anyone speaks about the meaning of a Hadith and judges people based on it, at least check the authoritative explanations for the Hadith.

                            And if you're incapable of at least doing that, then just be quiet...
                            Identifying a location is a subject of geography -- open google map and explain to me, how in the world Iraq is to the east of madinah ---

                            Don't tell me that all the historic maps which have identified Najd as a specific place doesn't exist and is just a risen part -- even still the Najd area is more elevated than Iraq, check the elevation figures.

                            Above all, Prophet Muhammad :saw: has himself identified Najd as a separate & specific place -- I will give you one sahih Hadith.

                            [COLOR="#2F4F4F"]Volume 1, Book 8, Number 451 : (Sahih Bukhari)

                            Narrated by Abu Huraira

                            The Prophet sent some horsemen to "NAJD" and they brought a man called Thumama bin Uthal "FROM BANI HANIFA" They fastened him to one of the pillars of the mosque. The Prophet came and ordered them to release him. He went to a (garden of) date-palms near the mosque, took a bath and entered the, mosque again and said, "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah an Muhammad is His Apostle (i.e. he embraced Islam)." [/COLOR]


                            The horsemen were sent to Najd, I repeat Najd --- According to you Najd is Iraq, now tell us, did Prophet Muhammad :saw: ever sent horsemen to Iraq in his life time?

                            and Banu Hanifah is a tribe in Najd region to the east of madinah. Go and see historic maps of Arabia.

                            Don't tell me that, NaAudubhila, Prophet Muhammad :saw: didn't understood cardinal points north & south and identified Iraq to east, which is actually to north of madinah.

                            I will give your own advice to you,
                            if you are incapable of understanding geography subject, reading maps, historic arab tribes and their locations + Sahih Hadiths dealing the subject, just remain silent.
                            Last edited by imran1976; 11-09-17, 10:32 AM.
                            "Europe died in Bosnia and was buried in Syria. Bodies of innocent children washing ashore are the
                            western civilization's tombstones"


                            Rajab Tayyab Erdogan

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                            • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                              Originally posted by Pakisaurus View Post
                              Even this alleged bloodshed by "wahhabis" pales in comparison to the bloodshed and destruction caused by various kafir regimes like Turkey and Pakistan along with their kafir allies. Kinda ironic then to see supporters of these kufr regime talk about bloodshed but what can you expect from kufr supporting munafiqeen.
                              That is a childish explenation
                              It is like saying "but the other kids did it too"
                              And the thunder exalts [ Allah ] with praise of Him - and the angels [as well] from fear of Him - and He sends thunderbolts and strikes therewith whom He wills while they dispute about Allah ; and He is severe in assault

                              Comment


                              • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                                Originally posted by imran1976 View Post
                                Identifying a location is a subject of geography -- open google map and explain to me, how in the world Iraq is to the east of madinah ---

                                Don't tell me that all the historic maps which have identified Najd as a specific place doesn't exist and is just a risen part -- even still the Najd area is more elevated than Iraq, check the elevation figures.

                                Above all, Prophet Muhammad :saw: has himself identified Najd as a separate & specific place -- I will give you one sahih Hadith.

                                [COLOR="#2F4F4F"]Volume 1, Book 8, Number 451 : (Sahih Bukhari)

                                Narrated by Abu Huraira

                                The Prophet sent some horsemen to "NAJD" and they brought a man called Thumama bin Uthal "FROM BANI HANIFA" They fastened him to one of the pillars of the mosque. The Prophet came and ordered them to release him. He went to a (garden of) date-palms near the mosque, took a bath and entered the, mosque again and said, "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah an Muhammad is His Apostle (i.e. he embraced Islam)." [/COLOR]


                                The horsemen were sent to Najd, I repeat Najd --- According to you Najd is Iraq, now tell us, did Prophet Muhammad :saw: ever sent horsemen to Iraq in his life time?

                                and Banu Hanifah is a tribe in Najd region to the east of madinah. Go and see historic maps of Arabia.

                                Don't tell me that, NaAudubhila, Prophet Muhammad :saw: didn't understood cardinal points north & south and identified Iraq to east, which is actually to north of madinah.

                                I will give your own advice to you,
                                if you are incapable of understanding geography subject, reading maps, historic arab tribes and their locations + Sahih Hadiths dealing the subject, just remain silent.
                                Very good. You found a completely separate Hadith from the ones that talk about the Horn of Shaytan, Fitnah and the East that mentions the word "Najd".

                                I'm not sure if you understand the concept, but there is a such thing as the "Najd" of al-Hijaz, and the other "Najd" mentioned in the Ahadith about the Fitnah.

                                Again, the scholars explained that there isn't just one "Najd" but many.

                                Though in your mind, it's easier to think that I'm accusing the Prophet SAWS of something horrible than to think that you're the one that has the problem.

                                Welcome to my "ignore list". You're way too crazy to carry on a conversation with.

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