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The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than ISIS

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  • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    Originally posted by Spicen View Post
    Not sure how discussing something is getting worked up, unless you consider the idea that I don't want Arabic culture in the vicinity of my country being worked up. Those "Bangladeshis" like Saifddin who feel and follow Arabic culture should be deported to the Middle East where they can fulfill their dreams of being slaves to their arab masters.
    That's fine but where is the line drawn between Islamic stuff (learning Arabic for example) vs Arabic culture?

    Also, in what way is br Saifuddin arabised?


    Originally posted by noobz View Post
    is this the 'arabs are a master race' argument now instead of 'only quraysh can be the caliph'?
    I guess it has become so.

    Originally posted by noobz View Post
    we can also make alot more add ons to this theory , Muhammad(sws) was a male , hence males must be better compared to women , we can also talk about the colour of his(sws) hair and eyes and the people with those hair color and eye color must be better than those that don't. Where does it end?

    We can all agree on that Muhammad(sws) was the best of creation , yet when the argument starts to go into the point that the arabs are a master race, it comes with alot of questions.

    and do answer the question , riding camels and donkeys is a confirmed sunnah btw.

    We can't, as what I said is from the hadith.

    https://sunnah.com/muslim/43/1

    Comment


    • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

      Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
      I would like to know with absolute definitive evidence that MIAW viewed tawasul in the form of Asking the Prophet / Righteous to ask Allah while being at the grave site as Shirk Akbar.

      I am certain that Ibn Uthaymeen viewed this as bid'ah and shirk asghar , which may lead to shirk akbar.
      Well you've been a salafi for months now atleast, you should know this better than me.

      The only thing that supposedly protects muslims seeking intercession from being "mushrik" is the excuse of "ignorance" an excuse which apparantly was not applcable for the people of Makkah and Madinah.

      I also posted a fatwa where the signatoried said that the entire people of Makkah, Madinah, Egypt, Sham were upon shirk and those who don't repent or enter the religion of ibn Abdul Wahab (who incodently claimed only he knows Tawhid) they should be killed and will be in Hell for eternity.

      Comment


      • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

        Originally posted by Spicen View Post
        Well you've been a salafi for months now atleast, you should know this better than me.

        The only thing that supposedly protects muslims seeking intercession from being "mushrik" is the excuse of "ignorance" an excuse which apparantly was not applcable for the people of Makkah and Madinah.

        I also posted a fatwa where the signatoried said that the entire people of Makkah, Madinah, Egypt, Sham were upon shirk and those who don't repent or enter the religion of ibn Abdul Wahab (who incodently claimed only he knows Tawhid) they should be killed and will be in Hell for eternity.
        As far as this personality is concerned , you are more knowledgeable than I am in history and past events. Also , I don't really care about what he has done. My Aqidah does not depend on him directly. What I do know and appreciate is the general Aqidah of the Arabian Peninsula. Alhamdulillah they are promoting Athari Aqidah and promoting an Islaam which - in theory - strives to follow classical Islaam.

        There is a distinction between Istighatha , tawasul / shafa'a.

        Out of curioisty , I would like to know what position the Shaykh held on shafa'a .. I.e. going to the grave of the Prophet (saws) and asking him to ask Allah for something.

        You see , this issue is somewhat problematic because the intent / request of the people differ from person to person. Indeed , it is possible that the one who visits the grave asks the Prophet for a need directly ( not requesting him to ask Allah ) which may have different implications as far as shirk is concerned - and it is without a doubt , a bid'ah.

        What appears to be absolutely universal amongst Salafis is the Kufr ( akbar ) of one who calls upon other than Allah with distance from that person ( Istighatha ) . For example , making Dua to Ali (ra) , as you sit in your room right now.


        I remember reading in Kitab At Tawhid by MIAW a section on Istighatha but do not recall anything attacking those who ask the inhabitants of the graves to ask Allah.

        Wa Allah alam

        Comment


        • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

          Originally posted by Spicen View Post
          Not sure how discussing something is getting worked up, unless you consider the idea that I don't want Arabic culture in the vicinity of my country being worked up. Those "Bangladeshis" like Saifddin who feel and follow Arabic culture should be deported to the Middle East where they can fulfill their dreams of being slaves to their arab masters.



          My signature is copied from salafi racist rantings by the salafi desert shakes against ottoman turks. I just modified the "turks" into "arabs."
          You can't do that (i.e. "Slave to Arab masters" and like you called Link "Abd -"Arab"). You know better than that bro.

          Desi countries are napaki.

          Also just to be clear I don't want to debate you on this topic in any way because you clearly know more than I do but I'm just pointing out the wrong in your whole "'Abd" calling.
          Last edited by Morose; 08-09-17, 05:02 PM.

          Comment


          • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

            Originally posted by Poster View Post
            That's fine but where is the line drawn between Islamic stuff (learning Arabic for example) vs Arabic culture?

            Also, in what way is br Saifuddin arabised?




            I guess it has become so.




            We can't, as what I said is from the hadith.

            https://sunnah.com/muslim/43/1
            its quite simple actually , were there any female prophets? ... so that answers the simple question that males must be higher.

            The problem here is when you start preaching superiority , one over the other which will automatically breed racism. On one side you have the final message that an arab is not superior over a non arab and vice versa , and then theres this hadith also which you posted(the context of which i do not know). Two different hadiths yet literally only salafi's and arab supremacists make an issue of this hadith by claiming only we can be rulers and what not.

            again , why don't you ride camels and donkeys? .. confirmed sunnah, who cares what the context was back in the day and what modern inventions we have now.



            Comment


            • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

              Originally posted by noobz View Post
              again , why don't you ride camels and donkeys? .. confirmed sunnah, who cares what the context was back in the day and what modern inventions we have now.
              No need to shower us with your incredible knowledge of what is sunnah.
              You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

              You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

              Comment


              • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                Originally posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
                No need to shower us with your incredible knowledge of what is sunnah.
                no need to reply when no1's talking to you, when i need you, i'll blow the whistle.



                Comment


                • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                  Originally posted by noobz View Post
                  its quite simple actually , were there any female prophets? ... so that answers the simple question that males must be higher.

                  The problem here is when you start preaching superiority , one over the other which will automatically breed racism. On one side you have the final message that an arab is not superior over a non arab and vice versa , and then theres this hadith also which you posted(the context of which i do not know). Two different hadiths yet literally only salafi's and arab supremacists make an issue of this hadith by claiming only we can be rulers and what not.

                  again , why don't you ride camels and donkeys? .. confirmed sunnah, who cares what the context was back in the day and what modern inventions we have now.
                  noobz a Desi could never be a leader of the Muslims. You guys can't even handle those "dirty ugly Hindu rats".

                  Comment


                  • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                    Originally posted by Morose View Post
                    noobz a Desi could never be a leader of the Muslims. You guys can't even handle those "dirty ugly Hindu rats".
                    i expected better from you rodney lol

                    Comment


                    • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                      Originally posted by Morose View Post
                      noobz a Desi could never be a leader of the Muslims. You guys can't even handle those "dirty ugly Hindu rats".
                      tipu sultan



                      Comment


                      • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                        Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post
                        i expected better from you rodney lol
                        Haha but in all seriousness, I just don't see it bro. An Arab, sure; a Turk, sure; an Afghan, sure; even a Kurd, sure, but a Desi? Well perhaps it could happen but it definitely wouldn't be a Bengali haha.

                        Originally posted by noobz View Post
                        tipu sultan
                        Say no to the cheeseburger khilafa.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                          Originally posted by Morose View Post
                          Haha but in all seriousness, I just don't see it bro. An Arab, sure; a Turk, sure; an Afghan, sure; even a Kurd, sure, but a Desi? Well perhaps it could happen but it definitely wouldn't be a Bengali haha.



                          Say no to the cheeseburger khilafa.
                          rodney you can become our amir lol

                          lol @ cheeseburger

                          Comment


                          • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                            Originally posted by Morose View Post
                            Haha but in all seriousness, I just don't see it bro. An Arab, sure; a Turk, sure; an Afghan, sure; even a Kurd, sure, but a Desi? Well perhaps it could happen but it definitely wouldn't be a Bengali haha.
                            That is because of liberal culture cultivated over two hundred years. Once the liberal goes, and adoption of a more right-wing religious nationalist ideology takes place there will be good leaders from Bengal as well.

                            But the very fact that Bengalis are liberal has created slave complex, secularists being slaves of western culture and then you have Abd-al Arabs like Saifuddin, Abu Julaybeeb. And this is also why you will never find any concepts like Bengali supremacism because the mentality of most people is that of slaves.
                            Last edited by Spicen; 08-09-17, 06:06 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                              Originally posted by Spicen View Post
                              That is because of liberal culture cultivated over two hundred years. Once the liberal goes, and adoption of a more right-wing religious nationalist ideology takes place there will be good leaders from Bengal as well.
                              In sha Allah. That's true, but even with the dissipation of the liberal culture, the leader must speak Arabic and know Islamic laws. But I hope you're right.

                              Also I understand yours/others' resistance to Arab rule, but I hope that doesn't create hatred in anybody for Arabs.

                              Comment


                              • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                                Originally posted by Morose View Post
                                In sha Allah. That's true, but even with the dissipation of the liberal culture, the leader must speak Arabic and know Islamic laws. But I hope you're right.
                                No. (bolded part)

                                Comment

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