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The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than ISIS

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  • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    Originally posted by Spicen View Post
    Isn't Ibn Taymiyyah generally a respected figure among Sunnis though? He has been criticized for his aqeedah by Asharis. But I didn't hear any criticism of him regarding arab supremacism. What did he say that you think he is one?
    Sheikh-ul-Shaytan (slight edit on my part), Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) was of the opinion that Arabs ARE SUPERIOR (Afdal) than Non-Arabs and he claimed that this was the view that was held by the MAJORITY of the scholars – ‘Al-Jamhoor’- .

    He wrote: “And the MAJORITY of scholars are of the opinion that the Arab species is better (Afdal) than the Non-Arab (species) just as the nation of Quraish is better (Afdal) than the Non-Quraishite nations and (just as) the nation of Bani Haashim is better (Afdal) than the Non-Bani Haashim (nations).” Majm’u Al-Fataawa 19/29
    He is also the one who claimed Allah had limbs and sat on a throne. (Subhanallah)

    And he is pretty much the father of Salafism. But you probably know that already.

    And apart from Salafists I know literally no one who respects Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah increase his punishment).

    Comment


    • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

      Originally posted by Gevurlar Korksun View Post
      He is also the one who claimed Allah had limbs and sat on a throne. (Subhanallah)

      And he is pretty much the father of Salafism. But you probably know that already.

      And apart from Salafists I know literally no one who respects Ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah increase his punishment).
      Oh wow, I'm actually taken aback that he said that(arabs are better than non-arabs) provided the source(islamqa?) is correct. I can't believe me made such a statement so bluntly. I wonder what the defense to this will be.......

      I know his opinion about the Attributes of Allah, I've read several debates regarding the topic.

      As for the matter of opinion, here's one: http://islamqa.org/hanafi/daruliftaa...m-ibn-taymiyya

      Once a brother asked me what I thought of Imam Ibn Taymiyya (Allah have mercy on him) and I replied by saying that I acknowledge his works and have respect for him, although I disagree with certain views of his.

      This is also the view I have held as well.

      Comment


      • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

        Do not question the decision to ban Gev, but I am wondering if same swift action will be taken if someone insults, say Maulana Ahmad Raza Brelvi ( I see regularly ppl insulting him)
        "Europe died in Bosnia and was buried in Syria. Bodies of innocent children washing ashore are the
        western civilization's tombstones"


        Rajab Tayyab Erdogan

        Comment


        • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

          Originally posted by imran1976 View Post
          Do not question the decision to ban Gev, but I am wondering if same swift action will be taken if someone insults, say Maulana Ahmad Raza Brelvi ( I see regularly ppl insulting him)
          One of the greatest promoters of shirk?
          You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

          You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

          Comment


          • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

            Just to confirm, yet Ibn Taymiyyah did hold those those views which are mentioned by Gevurlar Korksun.

            http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...twaId&Id=89988

            Now as for the ban itself, I agree he shouldn't have called ibn Taymiyyah satan given he is respected by many muslims but the actual content of hids posts is not lies or misinformation, he was speaking the truth.

            I've seen people criticize harshly "kalamis" like Ghazali. Wonder why that got a free pass.

            Comment


            • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

              Originally posted by Spicen View Post
              Just to confirm, yet Ibn Taymiyyah did hold those those views which are mentioned by Gevurlar Korksun.

              http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...twaId&Id=89988

              Now as for the ban itself, I agree he shouldn't have called ibn Taymiyyah satan given he is respected by many muslims but the actual content of hids posts is not lies or misinformation, he was speaking the truth.

              I've seen people criticize harshly "kalamis" like Ghazali. Wonder why that got a free pass.
              .

              Imaam An-Nawawi may Allaah have mercy upon him said, "If the origins of a person are honourable then the branches would be likewise in most cases, but the excellence and preference in Islam is by piety. However, if piety is coupled with the excellence of family lineage, then that is even more excellent."

              In addition to this, the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ) said: "Verily Allaah has chosen Kinaanah from amongst the descendants of Ismaa'eel may Allaah exalt his mention and He has chosen Quraysh amongst Kinaanah, and He has chosen Quraysh amongst Banu Haashim and He has chosen me from the tribe of Banu Haashim." [Muslim] In another narration, the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ) said: "I am the best amongst you in relation to family lineage and I am the most pious of you." [At-Tirmithi and Ahmad] Therefore, this is evidence that Kinaanah, Quraysh, and Banu Haashim are of excellence in comparison to other races and tribes.

              Comment


              • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                Originally posted by Poster View Post
                .
                Your point is?

                Comment


                • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                  I hate to derail this thread anymore but just a few more things to add.

                  http://s-s.islamicvirtues.com/2013/1...ver-non-arabs/

                  Shaykh Amjad Rasheed of SunniPath.com has also clarified this matter for us:

                  “It is obligatory on a Muslim to believe that Arabs are preferred over other nations because there is a proof for it. However, this is not one of the pillars of our religion such that if someone rejected this, they would be considered outside of Islam. But if one does reject this, one has sinned for not believing in it because it is an affirmed matter according to a clear rigorously authenticated hadith.”

                  http://s-s.islamicvirtues.com.prx.pr...-for-marriage/

                  Non-Arab men are NOT suitable for marriage with Arab Women
                  Recently I’ve noticed a trend among Arab Muslim families, especially those living in the West, where they allow their daughters to get married to non-Arab men.

                  Yes, it is true, I am not making this up.

                  How disgusting!

                  Rave review of Ummah.com:

                  Umm Ruqayya said:

                  August 19, 2014 at 6:39 PM
                  .

                  Assalamualaykum Warahmatullah Wabarakatahu.

                  Yes it is truly sad the state of affairs of Muslims. I mean, take a look at this forum and see how Muslims in the West are calling for inter-racial marriages. http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...thnicity/page3

                  I would not be so concerned if this wasn’t the largest mainstrean Muslim forum and wasn’t corrupting every Muslim mind passing by.

                  Another saddening trend is the denial of the wali’s rights over his virgin daughter. Now I don’t know whether you will agree with me on this one or not, nut according to the madhabs of Imam Shafi’i and Imam Malik the wali may marry off his virgin daughter without her consent unless he marries her outside of kafaat and with some other conditions. Yet we have Muslims completely denying a practise which has been proven from the Quran, Sunnah and the practise of the pious predecessors. Of course there are different opinions over this issue amongst scholars themselves so thats ok, but what is not okay is when we have ignorant LAYMEN campaigning against this practise which is often beneficial for the girls themselves as virgins often lack real insight into men and who is better qualified than a male wali who has proper hindsight in these matters for the arrangement of a suitable husband?

                  Islamic Awakening Forums on the other hand is full of proper students of knowledge and alhamdulillah I learnt about the wisdom behind many of these rulings from there, but unfortunately it is not as oft-frequented or popular a forum as Ummah forum which is full of laymen discussing the deen over dinner and deceiving unsuspecting newcomers into innovation.

                  We need more knowledgeable brothers/sisters going to major Muslim sites and forums, including Ummah Forums, which often prove solid platforms for communicating socially vital messages to Muslims, and authentically teaching these people about the tenets of our deen as I think small but beautiful blogs like this one do not have a wide extension on the internet and are thus unable to spread the message.

                  I believe that with a pragmatic, sincere, realistic and polite approach you may succeed in spreading such beneficial knowledge to Muslims through online media. I would highly recommend you to start with Ummah Forums, the largest online Muslim forum in the West.



                  *** Not that I'm remotely interested in fat, low IQ arab women but just providing info.
                  Last edited by Spicen; 07-09-17, 05:30 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                    Originally posted by Spicen View Post
                    Just to confirm, yet Ibn Taymiyyah did hold those those views which are mentioned by Gevurlar Korksun.

                    http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...twaId&Id=89988

                    I've seen people criticize harshly "kalamis" like Ghazali. Wonder why that got a free pass.
                    The reason is obvious, you know.
                    Let's keep this thread on track --- I will PM you some stuff that might interest you.
                    "Europe died in Bosnia and was buried in Syria. Bodies of innocent children washing ashore are the
                    western civilization's tombstones"


                    Rajab Tayyab Erdogan

                    Comment


                    • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                      Originally posted by Spicen View Post
                      Just to confirm, yet Ibn Taymiyyah did hold those those views which are mentioned by Gevurlar Korksun.

                      http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...twaId&Id=89988

                      Now as for the ban itself, I agree he shouldn't have called ibn Taymiyyah satan given he is respected by many muslims but the actual content of hids posts is not lies or misinformation, he was speaking the truth.

                      I've seen people criticize harshly "kalamis" like Ghazali. Wonder why that got a free pass.
                      He said IT believed Allah has limbs, which is a lie.
                      You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                      You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

                      Comment


                      • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                        Originally posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
                        He said IT believed Allah has limbs, which is a lie.
                        I think what he meant was that Ibn Taymiyyah believed Allah has legs and foot which if I'm not wrong is indeed a belief of IT. Or is my understanding wrong?

                        The Shaykh Ibn `Uthaymeen reinforces his opinion concerning anthropomorphism by saying ('SharH' p. 42):"It is established that Allah the Exalted has feet (al-qadam thaabit lillahi ta`aala), and the People of the Way of the Prophet (ahl al-sunna) have explained the leg and the foot (al-rijl wa al-qadam) as being literal according to what befits Allah (haqeeqatan `ala al-wajhi al-laa'iq billah); whereas the People of Figurative Interpretation (ahl al-ta'weel) have explained*'al-rijl'*as being the group which Allah will place in the Fire, and 'al-qadam' as being those who are sent forth (muqaddameen) to the Fire... and I reject and return their explanation to them on the grounds that it contravenes the external meaning of the words (bi annahu mukhaalifun li zaahir al-lafz)."

                        Comment


                        • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                          Originally posted by Spicen View Post
                          I hate to derail this thread anymore but just a few more things to add.

                          http://s-s.islamicvirtues.com/2013/1...ver-non-arabs/

                          Shaykh Amjad Rasheed of SunniPath.com has also clarified this matter for us:

                          “It is obligatory on a Muslim to believe that Arabs are preferred over other nations because there is a proof for it. However, this is not one of the pillars of our religion such that if someone rejected this, they would be considered outside of Islam. But if one does reject this, one has sinned for not believing in it because it is an affirmed matter according to a clear rigorously authenticated hadith.”

                          http://s-s.islamicvirtues.com.prx.pr...-for-marriage/

                          Non-Arab men are NOT suitable for marriage with Arab Women
                          Recently I’ve noticed a trend among Arab Muslim families, especially those living in the West, where they allow their daughters to get married to non-Arab men.

                          Yes, it is true, I am not making this up.

                          How disgusting!

                          Rave review of Ummah.com:

                          Umm Ruqayya said:

                          August 19, 2014 at 6:39 PM
                          .

                          Assalamualaykum Warahmatullah Wabarakatahu.

                          Yes it is truly sad the state of affairs of Muslims. I mean, take a look at this forum and see how Muslims in the West are calling for inter-racial marriages. http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...thnicity/page3

                          I would not be so concerned if this wasn’t the largest mainstrean Muslim forum and wasn’t corrupting every Muslim mind passing by.

                          Another saddening trend is the denial of the wali’s rights over his virgin daughter. Now I don’t know whether you will agree with me on this one or not, nut according to the madhabs of Imam Shafi’i and Imam Malik the wali may marry off his virgin daughter without her consent unless he marries her outside of kafaat and with some other conditions. Yet we have Muslims completely denying a practise which has been proven from the Quran, Sunnah and the practise of the pious predecessors. Of course there are different opinions over this issue amongst scholars themselves so thats ok, but what is not okay is when we have ignorant LAYMEN campaigning against this practise which is often beneficial for the girls themselves as virgins often lack real insight into men and who is better qualified than a male wali who has proper hindsight in these matters for the arrangement of a suitable husband?

                          Islamic Awakening Forums on the other hand is full of proper students of knowledge and alhamdulillah I learnt about the wisdom behind many of these rulings from there, but unfortunately it is not as oft-frequented or popular a forum as Ummah forum which is full of laymen discussing the deen over dinner and deceiving unsuspecting newcomers into innovation.

                          We need more knowledgeable brothers/sisters going to major Muslim sites and forums, including Ummah Forums, which often prove solid platforms for communicating socially vital messages to Muslims, and authentically teaching these people about the tenets of our deen as I think small but beautiful blogs like this one do not have a wide extension on the internet and are thus unable to spread the message.

                          I believe that with a pragmatic, sincere, realistic and polite approach you may succeed in spreading such beneficial knowledge to Muslims through online media. I would highly recommend you to start with Ummah Forums, the largest online Muslim forum in the West.



                          *** Not that I'm remotely interested in fat, low IQ arab women but just providing info.

                          Comment


                          • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                            Originally posted by Stoic Believer View Post
                            You're rubbing your eyes because of the arab supremacism or the fact that I said I have no intrest in arabic potatoes?

                            Comment


                            • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                              Originally posted by Spicen View Post
                              You're rubbing your eyes because of the arab supremacism or the fact that I said I have no intrest in arabic potatoes?
                              Lol I was going to reply to the thread you made but AA closed it.

                              It's just that I was not very aware of this view of Arab supremacy before. And some of those posters you quoted come off as very arrogant. One of them even accused the sister of zina because she was married to another race.

                              Also what do they mean by Arabs? Do they mean "pure" Arabs of the Gulf? What about Arabs of Syria etc. If I'm not mistaken the Arabs of the Shaam region are just descendants from when Arabs mixed with the populace after the first conquest. Same with the "Arabized" peoples of North Africa.

                              Comment


                              • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                                Originally posted by Stoic Believer View Post
                                Lol I was going to reply to the thread you made but AA closed it.

                                It's just that I was not very aware of this view of Arab supremacy before. And some of those posters you quoted come off as very arrogant. One of them even accused the sister of zina because she was married to another race.

                                Also what do they mean by Arabs? Do they mean "pure" Arabs of the Gulf? What about Arabs of Syria etc. If I'm not mistaken the Arabs of the Shaam region are just descendants from when Arabs mixed with the populace after the first conquest. Same with the "Arabized" peoples of North Africa.
                                Lol arrogant. The blogger even said that her kids will be disgusting.
                                The part where that guy said most South Asian muslims are munafiq for denying arab supremacy was also cool.

                                What is meant by arabs are the "descendants" of Ismail. Arabized arabs don't really count although I'm sure they will calim otherwise. And the idea that speaking arabic makes you arab is also invalid here since it is only for "descendants" of Ismail.

                                I wasn't aware too. I was looking for source of Ibn Taymiyyah's quote and I bumped into that blog.

                                Say what you will about Bidrohi but his hatred of arabs has basis. He knew all these beliefs of arabs, which is why he disliked them. Bidrohi was right, he didn't make up all those stuff from thin air.
                                Last edited by Spicen; 07-09-17, 09:12 PM.

                                Comment

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