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The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than ISIS

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  • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

    the abdul al wahab supporters should actually start refuting op's argument instead of attacking op.

    just makes the fools in this thread looks more foolish when you don't want to refute the arguments he brought from the books of abdul wahab and his followers.



    Comment


    • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

      Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
      Salamun 'alaykum,

      I had a thread on IA Forums with the title "The ruling of seeking aid with the Prophet (saws) according to the scholars of the Shafi'i Madhhab", but unfortunately the forum is closed since a longer time. But if you search the title on google you should still find many of the quotes from the thread on different websites.
      just post a summary here if you had it.

      we're basically going over and over again on this argument , so if the 4 imams allowed it then maybe the staunch salafi's would stop using the argument of 'mushriks'



      Comment


      • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

        Originally posted by noobz View Post
        the abdul al wahab supporters should actually start refuting op's argument instead of attacking op.

        just makes the fools in this thread looks more foolish when you don't want to refute the arguments he brought from the books of abdul wahab and his followers.
        The reason why they're not able to refute anything is simply because the points that were presented against them are based upon proofs and because non of them has ever looked into the books of the original Najdi movement... all they can do is to repeat the false or half-true informations, which they've heard from different "Salafi" preachers and that's it.

        What they should understand is that this religion is built upon submission to Allah ta'ala and NOT upon constant attacking of other Muslims. They do not have the knowledge nor the right to accuse other Muslims of disbelief and polytheism without any clear-cut proof. Like I said earlier: A person who says the Shahadatayn does not exit the religion except if he rejects what is necessarily known to be from the religion.

        Comment


        • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

          Originally posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
          This part of history is something I wanted to read about/be more informed about for some time. At the end of the day Abdulwahaab was human and humans will always make mistakes. Those who appose him seem to have a problem with his teachings/views firstly before any wrongdoing that took place.

          Is there any salafi who criticises him?
          so far I haven't seen anything concrete that refutes his ideas. What so and so sheikh said is not good enough if it doesn't come from the prophet :saw: and the companions.
          This thread is almost three years old, still haven't seen anybody refuting the OP.

          Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab's movement's foundation is laid on the blood of thousands of Muslims, Sauds being the equal partner --- This evil nexus even continues today.
          "Europe died in Bosnia and was buried in Syria. Bodies of innocent children washing ashore are the
          western civilization's tombstones"


          Rajab Tayyab Erdogan

          Comment


          • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

            Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
            I dont blindly follow any sheiks

            And yes i dont have an in depth knowledge of ottamons
            But if they took intercession from the prophet thats kufr right there so thats enough
            so intercession from Muhammad(sws) also makes one a kafir? ... so you're saying the 4 imams were also kaffir then?



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            • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

              Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
              The reason why they're not able to refute anything is simply because the points that were presented against them are based upon proofs and because non of them has ever looked into the books of the original Najdi movement... all they can do is to repeat the false or half-true informations, which they've heard from different "Salafi" preachers and that's it.

              What they should understand is that this religion is built upon submission to Allah ta'ala and NOT upon constant attacking of other Muslims. They do not have the knowledge nor the right to accuse other Muslims of disbelief and polytheism without any clear-cut proof. Like I said earlier: A person who says the Shahadatayn does not exit the religion except if he rejects what is necessarily known to be from the religion.
              this thread actually shows the salafi's without any ilm as whatsoever , they hardly posted any refutation of what MAW did , instead they just attacked you labelling you a sufi/barelvi.

              How can one take salafi's seriously after their drama in this thread.



              Comment


              • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                Originally posted by imran1976 View Post
                This thread is almost three years old, still haven't seen anybody refuting the OP.

                Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab's movement's foundation is laid on the blood of thousands of Muslims, Sauds being the equal partner --- This evil nexus even continues today.
                but the sauds implemented sharia , hence all accusations nulled.



                Comment


                • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                  Originally posted by noobz View Post
                  but the sauds implemented sharia , hence all accusations nulled.
                  but the Sauds, deliberately, forgot to implement the political aspect of sharia -- They are responsible for breaking the Muslim world into pieces with defined boundaries--

                  I fail to understand the arrogance with which salafis/wahabis accuse others of nationalism, when the Sauds ( + wahabs), whom they follow, created Najdi Kingdom on the basis of Arab nationalism.
                  "Europe died in Bosnia and was buried in Syria. Bodies of innocent children washing ashore are the
                  western civilization's tombstones"


                  Rajab Tayyab Erdogan

                  Comment


                  • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                    Originally posted by imran1976 View Post
                    but the Sauds, deliberately, forgot to implement the political aspect of sharia -- They are responsible for breaking the Muslim world into pieces with defined boundaries--

                    I fail to understand the arrogance with which salafis/wahabis accuse others of nationalism, when the Sauds ( + wahabs), whom they follow, created Najdi Kingdom on the basis of Arab nationalism.
                    Not every salafi agrees with the actions of saudi or the saudi government today
                    surely you know that so why make such a blanket statement?
                    I would say it's a minority of salafis that believe saudi is actually 'the land of tawheed'.
                    شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
                    فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
                    وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
                    ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

                    Comment


                    • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                      Originally posted by imran1976 View Post
                      This thread is almost three years old, still haven't seen anybody refuting the OP.

                      Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab's movement's foundation is laid on the blood of thousands of Muslims, Sauds being the equal partner --- This evil nexus even continues today.
                      Maybe they are not bothering to refute it because it's irrelevant to them. It's not like MIAW is the only figure 'salafis' today take from. This focus on one individual and linking all salafis today back to that one individual is not correct. It depends on what you're definition of 'salafi' is.

                      There are claims of wrongful killing and i've also heard that those transgressions didn't take place under his direct instructions and that some of his followers were going against him/his orders on how to deal with the people. And those in this thread saying that MIAW and his followers lied about what people were doing at his time and that he exaggerated the issues so that he could wipe them out, haven't brought any evidence for that. Their only argument for this is based on emotions and their own logic, things like "how could everyone be wrong and only he be right". But again the issue will always come back to what we regard as innovation, shirk and disbelieve and what actions are allowed within the shariah to be taken against these. Whoever doesn't agree on these will not agree on anything else. So it's better these topics are dealt with first since this is the source of the problem. However, I can't see muslims agreeing on these for a long time to come.

                      I'm open to hearing from both sides but everyone who apposes MIAW that i've seen hold ideas and beliefs that make no sense to me, some which have been mentioned in this thread. My point is, those who appose MIAW come from that angle of bitterness just because he had a different view different from the norm at his time and he managed to spread his views. All of their arguments are just attacks on salafis and blanket statements grouping all salafis and saudi as one and even going as far as saying they are responsible for groups like ISIS.

                      I would rather hear criticism of MIAW's actions and takfir from people who are bit more balanced in their approach.

                      Originally posted by noobz View Post
                      this thread actually shows the salafi's without any ilm as whatsoever , they hardly posted any refutation of what MAW did , instead they just attacked you labelling you a sufi/barelvi.

                      How can one take salafi's seriously after their drama in this thread.
                      You did the exact same thing throughout this thread.
                      Last edited by Rumaysah~; 03-09-17, 03:08 PM.
                      شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
                      فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
                      وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
                      ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

                      Comment


                      • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                        Originally posted by noobz View Post
                        so intercession from Muhammad(sws) also makes one a kafir? ... so you're saying the 4 imams were also kaffir then?
                        What are you smoking?
                        You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                        You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

                        Comment


                        • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                          Originally posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
                          What are you smoking?
                          its not that salafi pot you smoke , infact i don't smoke.



                          Comment


                          • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                            Originally posted by Rumaysah~ View Post



                            You did the exact same thing throughout this thread.
                            i just came in this thread and i only wanted to see salafi's refute op.

                            so far i didn't accuse anyone on this thread of being a braindead wahabi like the accusations were thrown at op.



                            Comment


                            • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                              Originally posted by noobz View Post
                              its not that salafi pot you smoke , infact i don't smoke.
                              You just indirectly said that the four imaams used to seek intercession through Rasoolallah :saw:.

                              Better provide some proof or retract your self-made claims.
                              You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                              You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

                              Comment


                              • Re: The original Najdi/ Wahhabi movement was more extreme in bloodshed & Takfir than

                                Ah, might look up more about this Wahab guy..
                                Interesting how some people will defend their sect so vehemently.. be it sunnis, wahabbis or whatever else..
                                "East, west, south, or north makes little difference. No matter what your destination, just be sure to make every journey a journey within. If you travel within, you’ll travel the whole wide world and beyond." - Rule 9. - The Forty Rules of Love.

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