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Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

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  • Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    When the prophet (SAW) said: there is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab?

    Why you believe that everyone who doesn't accept the tafdhil (superiority) of the Arab race, is a deviant and innovator, when you are giving precedence to Salafis scholars' rulings over the rulings of the prophet (SAW)? Why hasn't the superiority of the Arab race ever mentioned in the Quran or authentic hadiths?

    Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) was of the opinion that Arabs ARE SUPERIOR (Afdal) than Non-Arabs and he claimed that this was the view that was held by the MAJORITY of the scholars – ‘Al-Jamhoor’- .

    He wrote: “And the MAJORITY of scholars are of the opinion that the Arab species is better (Afdal) than the Non-Arab (species) just as the nation of Quraish is better (Afdal) than the Non-Qurai****e nations and (just as) the nation of Bani Haashim is better (Afdal) than the Non-Bani Haashim (nations).” Majm’u Al-Fataawa 19/29

    Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) wrote:

    “Verily, what Ahlul Sunnah is upon: Is the BELIEF (I’tiqaad) that the Arab race is better (Afdal) then the Non-Arab race. Whether (the Non-Arabs) are Hebrews, Aramaic, Romans, Persians and other than them…”. Iqtidaa As-Siraatil-Mustaqeem 2/419

    Abu Muhammad, Harb ibn Ismail ibn Khalaf Al-Kirmaany (died 280 – ra) who was one of the students and companions of Imaam Ahmed (ra) also mentioned this point when he wrote about the descriptions and BELIEFS of the PEOPLE OF THE SUNNAH.


    Shiekh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) said:

    “Know that the Ahaadith (that show) the superiority of Quraish and then the superiority of Bani Haashim are numerous and this is not the place (to gather all of them) but they also prove this (superiority of the Arab over Non-Arabs).

    And this is due to the fact that the relationship of Quraish to the Arabs is just like the relationship of the Arabs to the rest of the people (i.e. Qurai****es are superior to Non-Qurai****es and the Arabs are superior to Non-Arabs). Verily Allah the Most High has designated the Arabs and their language with ‘Ahkaam’ that are peculiar and unique.

    And then He preferred Quraish over the rest of the Arabs in what He has given them of prophecy and other than that from the ‘Khasaais’ (unique and peculiar qualities)”. Iqtidaa As-Siraat-il-Mustaqeem 2/431

    Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) also said:

    “…The superiority of the Arab race and then (the superiority of) Quraish and then (the superiority of) Bani Haashim, is not simply due to the fact the Prophet (peace be upon him) is from them – even though this is (a point) of superiority – but instead, they themselves are superior within themselves“. Iqtidaa As-Siraatil-Mustaqeem 2/420



    Source: http://singularvoice.wordpress.com/2008/02/19/salafi-imam-we-must-believe-arabs-are-master-race/

  • Muwahid_
    replied
    Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post
    You sure that your not taking his quote out of context?
    Mind telling is exactly in what regard he said they were superior?
    Was he talking about in knowledge/wisdom? Or some other matter?
    Or is this one of your snide attempts to belittle Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullah?
    I haven't been on here for a while and logged in recently just to see your reply to a post I made more than 7 years ago. Suffice to say I don't stand by what I said in the original post that many years ago. The quotes are truthful and there are many interpretations, but the following PDF clarifies what he meant on this topic. This topic has become a fitnah and I strongly hope it does not lead people to believing the shaykh was a racist or anything vile of the sort. Last I recall he wasn't an Arab himself

    I still do not agree with many of his teachings. That doesn't mean I believe I am at the level to criticize him. No I leave that to the scholars. But no doubt he was a scholar of Ahlus Sunnah and may Allah ta'alah forgive him for his mistakes and grant him Jannatul Firdaus.


    A request for the mods/admins: It would be prudent to delete this thread because it has caused far more harm and confusion than any benefit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Musbah
    replied
    https://islamqa.info/en/182686

    Leave a comment:


  • OneLifeResults
    replied
    Originally posted by OneLifeResults View Post

    1) The scholars of hadiths like Bukhari actually narrate this incident without mentioning anything about Satan. Rather, they say that the Mushrikeen prostrated due to the beauty of the Quran. Sadly, the mushrikeen reversed themselves just like the People of Ibrahim(peace be upon him):

    A) So they returned to [blaming] themselves and said [to each other], "Indeed, you are the wrongdoers." Then they reversed themselves, [saying], "You have already known that these do not speak!" (Surah 21:64-65).

    B) Ibn Kathir(may Allah have mercy on him) was in the same shoes as them.

    2) Furthermore, there is no point in continuing this discussion with you since you refuse to verify what Ibn Taymiyyah(may Allah curse him) actually said about Muhammad(peace be upon him):

    A) Please verify that and remember the honor of the Messenger of Allah when you do that:

    B) "And to Allah belongs [all] honor, and to His Messenger, and to the believers, but the hypocrites do not know." : http://legacy.quran.com/63/8
    http://www.academia.edu/15003847/Ibn...87_1998_67-124

    Leave a comment:


  • OneLifeResults
    replied
    Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?



    You didn't offend me. I never lose my sleep over what people think. You are free to think what you like. I won't be responsible for your actions just like you will not be responsible for mine.

    However, if the superiority of the Arabs in this temporary world bothers you then you should know that you still have your sights set on this worldly life. You have a long way to go when it comes to your spiritual development.

    There are people taller than you
    There are people smarter than you
    There are people wealthier than you
    There are people who are better looking than you
    There are people who will run faster than you
    There are people who will out do you in any skill
    There are people who are more charismatic than you

    Do you know the common denominator in all of that? It all has to do with this temporary worldly life.

    The Arabs are superior as a genus over others. That is limited to this world.

    You will have Arabs in the Fire. You will have Arabs who will never see Paradise.

    The criteria for the one thing which matters, namely the next life, is Taqwaa.

    Allaah has clearly stated that in the Qur'aan.

    I do not see why you are bothered if the Arabs are better than the non-Arabs.
    .

    Leave a comment:


  • ZeeshanParvez
    replied
    Originally posted by Abdell View Post
    Sheik Islam is one of the greatest scholars ever, sure maybe in some issues other scholars have a better thought process,

    but sheik al-islam is a good litmus test. You just know anyone who doesn't respect the sheik is either an idiot coco or just a flat out idiot.
    Every time that seems to be the case.

    Leave a comment:


  • ZeeshanParvez
    replied
    For a person who was preaching verification what was asked should not have been hard....

    I guess some people just cannot practice what they preach.

    Leave a comment:


  • ZeeshanParvez
    replied
    5) To the Muslims, please verify:
    Yes, everyone should verify. This is very true.



    Originally posted by OneLifeResults View Post

    3) The second reason: He claimed that Muhammad(peace be upon him) received revelation from Satan:
    Can you provide the Arabic text from his works where he claimed that?

    Leave a comment:


  • OneLifeResults
    replied
    Originally posted by dsr478 View Post

    You don't seem to understand the Satanic verses incident.

    According to the story, Satan caused the mushrikeen to hear the verses differently to how they were recited by Rasulullah (Peace Be Upon Him). Ibn Kathir mentions this in his Tafsir. It was the mushrikeen who Satan deceived, not An Nabi (Peace Be Upon Him).
    ​​​​
    This isn't my view alone, other scholars say the same about Ibn Taymiyyah. A simple Google search or opening a book will do you some good.


    ​​​​
    ​​​​​
    1) The scholars of hadiths like Bukhari actually narrate this incident without mentioning anything about Satan. Rather, they say that the Mushrikeen prostrated due to the beauty of the Quran. Sadly, the mushrikeen reversed themselves just like the People of Ibrahim(peace be upon him):

    A) So they returned to [blaming] themselves and said [to each other], "Indeed, you are the wrongdoers." Then they reversed themselves, [saying], "You have already known that these do not speak!" (Surah 21:64-65).

    B) Ibn Kathir(may Allah have mercy on him) was in the same shoes as them.

    2) Furthermore, there is no point in continuing this discussion with you since you refuse to verify what Ibn Taymiyyah(may Allah curse him) actually said about Muhammad(peace be upon him):

    A) Please verify that and remember the honor of the Messenger of Allah when you do that:

    B) "And to Allah belongs [all] honor, and to His Messenger, and to the believers, but the hypocrites do not know." : http://legacy.quran.com/63/8

    Leave a comment:


  • dsr478
    replied
    Originally posted by OneLifeResults View Post

    1) Subhanallah, you do not see anything wrong with saying Muhammad(peace be upon him) received revelation from Satan?

    A) Subhanallah, here you are defending Ibn Taymiyyah while you thrown the honor of the Messenger of Allah behind your back.

    B) Please think: https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/li...nking-reminder
    You don't seem to understand the Satanic verses incident.

    According to the story, Satan caused the mushrikeen to hear the verses differently to how they were recited by Rasulullah (Peace Be Upon Him). Ibn Kathir mentions this in his Tafsir. It was the mushrikeen who Satan deceived, not An Nabi (Peace Be Upon Him).
    ​​​​
    This isn't my view alone, other scholars say the same about Ibn Taymiyyah. A simple Google search or opening a book will do you some good.


    ​​​​
    ​​​​​

    Leave a comment:


  • OneLifeResults
    replied
    Originally posted by dsr478 View Post

    Asalamu Alaikum

    ​​​​​​
    ​​​​​​There is nothing haram about believing in the satanic verses incident, the early scholars believed in it with no qualms. If you don't believe in it (I certainly don't), fine, but don't make it seem like it's blasphemous, it's only blasphemous if you use this incident in a specific context.

    As for anthropomorphism, he may have come close to it, but saying he was upon it is a little bold to say.

    Anyway, no scholar is perfect. They all have good and bad.

    ​​​
    1) Subhanallah, you do not see anything wrong with saying Muhammad(peace be upon him) received revelation from Satan?

    A) Subhanallah, here you are defending Ibn Taymiyyah while you thrown the honor of the Messenger of Allah behind your back.

    B) Please think: https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/li...nking-reminder

    Leave a comment:


  • dsr478
    replied
    Originally posted by OneLifeResults View Post
    1) I use to think Ibn Taymiyyah was a great scholar of Islam due to Sheikh Anwar Awlaki(may Allah have mercy on him and his family):

    A) At that time, if a Muslim came to me and said that he had a different view of Ibn Taymiyyah, I would have verified it:

    A) I would have never used bad manners towards that Muslim: https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/li...islam-reminder

    B) Alhamdulillah, Allah has given me a critical thinking ability as well as good manners:

    C) But as for the favor of your Lord, report [it]. (Surah 93:11).

    2) There are two main reasons why I hate Ibn Taymiyyah. The first reason is the reason why he went to prison. He had an anthropomorphic view of Allah:

    A) It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding. (Surah 3:7)

    3) The second reason: He claimed that Muhammad(peace be upon him) received revelation from Satan:

    A) May Allah curse him for insulting the Messenger of Allah.

    4) To the worshipers of Ibn Taymiyyah, die in your rage:

    A) Say, "Die in your rage. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of that within the breasts." (Surah 3:119): http://legacy.quran.com/3/119

    B) They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him. (Surah 9:31).

    C) The Day their faces will be turned about in the Fire, they will say, "How we wish we had obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger." And they will say, "Our Lord, indeed we obeyed our masters and our dignitaries, and they led us astray from the [right] way. (Surah 33:66-67).

    5) To the Muslims, please verify:

    A) O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate, lest you harm a people out of ignorance and become, over what you have done, regretful. (Surah 49:6).
    Asalamu Alaikum

    ​​​​​​
    ​​​​​​There is nothing haram about believing in the satanic verses incident, the early scholars believed in it with no qualms. If you don't believe in it (I certainly don't), fine, but don't make it seem like it's blasphemous, it's only blasphemous if you use this incident in a specific context.

    As for anthropomorphism, he may have come close to it, but saying he was upon it is a little bold to say.

    Anyway, no scholar is perfect. They all have good and bad.

    ​​​

    Leave a comment:


  • OneLifeResults
    replied
    1) I use to think Ibn Taymiyyah was a great scholar of Islam due to Sheikh Anwar Awlaki(may Allah have mercy on him and his family):

    A) At that time, if a Muslim came to me and said that he had a different view of Ibn Taymiyyah, I would have verified it:

    A) I would have never used bad manners towards that Muslim: https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/li...islam-reminder

    B) Alhamdulillah, Allah has given me a critical thinking ability as well as good manners:

    C) But as for the favor of your Lord, report [it]. (Surah 93:11).

    2) There are two main reasons why I hate Ibn Taymiyyah. The first reason is the reason why he went to prison. He had an anthropomorphic view of Allah:

    A) It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding. (Surah 3:7)

    3) The second reason: He claimed that Muhammad(peace be upon him) received revelation from Satan:

    A) May Allah curse him for insulting the Messenger of Allah.

    4) To the worshipers of Ibn Taymiyyah, die in your rage:

    A) Say, "Die in your rage. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of that within the breasts." (Surah 3:119): http://legacy.quran.com/3/119

    B) They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him. (Surah 9:31).

    C) The Day their faces will be turned about in the Fire, they will say, "How we wish we had obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger." And they will say, "Our Lord, indeed we obeyed our masters and our dignitaries, and they led us astray from the [right] way. (Surah 33:66-67).

    5) To the Muslims, please verify:

    A) O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate, lest you harm a people out of ignorance and become, over what you have done, regretful. (Surah 49:6).
    Last edited by OneLifeResults; 21-12-17, 04:29 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abdell
    replied
    Sheik Islam is one of the greatest scholars ever, sure maybe in some issues other scholars have a better thought process,

    but sheik al-islam is a good litmus test. You just know anyone who doesn't respect the sheik is either an idiot coco or just a flat out idiot.

    Leave a comment:


  • Saif-Uddin
    replied
    Originally posted by trisquel View Post

    There is proof of you giving your own interpretation of what constitutes zinaa. That is a sign of a Murtad. You should leave this forum and go practise your 'lol'ing with non-mahrams elsewhere.

    What a disgrace to have imitators of Abdullah ibn Saba in our presence, like this Saif ul Haraam.
    Another lie,

    I didn't give my own interpretation at any point in time.

    There are hadith talking about Zina of the eyes, limbs etc.

    Good that a dirty Slanderer like you got booted,



    ​​​​​​

    Leave a comment:

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