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Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

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  • Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    Originally posted by Abu-Sufyaan View Post
    Exuse me, can you tell me where did you get this from?
    Maybe you could try reading the thread end to end

    Comment


    • Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

      Originally posted by Foodadad View Post
      Maybe you could try reading the thread end to end

      My question was..

      Quote me any scholars who said " he would be considered Arab by classical scholars if he was fluent and followed Arab tradition."..
      إذا هبَّت رياحك فاغتنمها ** فعقبى كل خَافِقَةٍ سكونُ

      Comment


      • Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

        Originally posted by Abdell View Post
        You are a huge problem in this ummah. Id slap your face if i ever see you IRL you racist prick. Negging you on sight frm no on. Go practice your racism somewhere else.
        We want to fight coconuts because they reject islamic rulings that they dislike and even use daleel wrongly to reject it like fools
        Yet as soon as something that we don't like comes we start rejecting it like coconuts and use proof wrongly just like they do?

        I think we need to calm down and understand the ahadith correctly, this isn't a view of Ibn Taymiyyah, it's the view of the vast majority of Arab and non Arab scholars that have come, but maybe you have misunderstood.
        ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

        Comment


        • Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

          Originally posted by Calender121438 View Post
          The scholars do not believe that since it clearly contradicts the Quran. This is the view of Ibn Taymiyyah only. This is one of the reasons why I avoid his teachings, he claims "ijma" and "ahlu sunnah" for his views.
          You seriously have no knowledge of the deen if you think only in Taymiyyah held this view, get off the forum and go study
          ''If the bedouins and city dwellers were to fight between themselves until they wipe each other out, it will surely be less significant than them appointing a taghoot in the land which rules by that which is against the Shari'ah of Islaam which Allah sent his Messenger ﷺ with'' - Sheikh Sulayman bin Sahmaan

          Comment


          • Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

            Originally posted by Abu-Sufyaan View Post
            My question was..

            Quote me any scholars who said " he would be considered Arab by classical scholars if he was fluent and followed Arab tradition."..
            There is one quoted. Your question is already answered.

            Comment


            • Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

              Originally posted by Foodadad View Post
              There is one quoted. Your question is already answered.
              Can you make it easy to me and copy it here.
              إذا هبَّت رياحك فاغتنمها ** فعقبى كل خَافِقَةٍ سكونُ

              Comment


              • Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                Originally posted by Abu-Sufyaan View Post
                Can you make it easy to me and copy it here.


                Easy for* me
                إذا هبَّت رياحك فاغتنمها ** فعقبى كل خَافِقَةٍ سكونُ

                Comment


                • Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                  First thing I want to say is I'm a previously banned user (Spicen) and yes I know, I know I'm not supposed to make second account. However, this is a really important issue. I promise I will not discuss any topic outside this and when in time I feel this is sufficiently discussed I will myself take myself away from the forum. Hence I hope the mods will atleast give me a couple of days before banning me (although I fully expect to get banned today).

                  On the issue at hand, the very first thing I want to add is that I truly wish Berke Khan the mongol who sacrificed his brotherhood for mongols and as he said truly: "Mongols are killed by Mongol swords. If we were united, then we would have conquered all of the world" had seen that Arab supremacism is indeed the position of orthodox islam and then it is very likely he would have finished what Hulagu started. And instead he ended up being part of another group of people where he is considered second class loser. To be fair though he converted to sufi islam so my guess is he would just reject arab supremacism and still claim to be muslim but I wonder what would have happened if he and other non-arabs knew about these things.
                  [MENTION=57142]Muwahid_[/MENTION] - This is not only a belief not salafis and Ibn taymiyyah but also the belief of ahlus sunnah. If you disagree you have left ahlus sunnah wal jamaa.
                  [MENTION=113309]Linkdeutscher[/MENTION] - Shaikhul Islaam ibn Taymiyyah said in Iqtidaa’ As-Siraat al-Mustaqeem:
                  The belief of Ahlussunnati waJamaa’ah is that the essence of Arabs is better than that of ‘Ajam, whether the ‘Ajam
                  are Hebrew, Assyrians, Romans, Persians or others.
                  Quraish is the best of Arabs, Bani Hashim are the best of Quaish, and Muhammad ASWS is the best of Bani Hashim.
                  Therefore, Muhammad ASWS is the best of humanity, both in person and in lineage.
                  The virtue of Arabs, Quraish and then Bani Hashim is not just because the Prophet ASWS was from them, even
                  though this is a part of virtue. Arabs are in themselves better. This is how it is proven that the Prophet ASWS is the
                  best in person and lineage. Otherwise, a revolving argument will generate.3
                  Abu Muhammad Harb bin Ismail al-Kirmaani, the companion of Imam Ahmad, described his book of Sunnah by
                  saying:
                  "This is the belief of Imaams of knowledge, those of Athar and well known people of Sunnah, which have been

                  2
                  Note: translation of the word (جنس (is essence.
                  3
                  A revolving argument is to say: "A" depends on "B" while "B" depends on "A" which is unacceptable logically.
                  taken as examples. It is the belief of scholars of Iraq, Hijaaz, Sham and others.
                  Whomever goes against any of these Madhaahib, attacks them or despises those adopting them is a person of
                  Bid’ah, he would be outside of Jamaa’ah, and inconsistent with the way of Sunnah and path of truth.
                  It is the Madhab of Ahmad, Ishaaq bin Ibrahim bin Makhlad, Abdullah bin Az-zubair, al-Humaidee, Sa’eed bin
                  Mansoor, and others with whom we have sat and from whom we have acquired knowledge.
                  Among their sayings were: Imaan is to say, do and believe …
                  We are to realize for Arabs their right, virtue and early acceptance of Islam. We are to love them because the
                  Prophet ASWS said: loving Arabs is Imaan, and disliking them is hypocrisy. Shu’oobis and low Mawaale dislike
                  Arabs and do not admit to their virtue. This is a Bid’ah and an inconsistency with the correct way. We do not say
                  that which they say."

                  Al-Albanee said in As-Silsilah Ad-Da’eefah 163:
                  “The (جنس (of Arabs is better than the (جنس (of the rest of nations. This is what I believe, adopt as creed and
                  consider as part of religion.
                  Even though I am Albanian, I am a Muslim, praise to Allah.
                  The virtue of the (جنس (of Arabs is the position of Ahlussunnah Wal-jamaa’ah. It is proven by many Hadeeths.”
                  Last edited by As-Suhoobiyah; 23-09-17, 10:06 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                    Originally posted by Muwahid_ View Post
                    When the prophet (SAW) said: there is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab?

                    Why you believe that everyone who doesn't accept the tafdhil (superiority) of the Arab race, is a deviant and innovator, when you are giving precedence to Salafis scholars' rulings over the rulings of the prophet (SAW)? Why hasn't the superiority of the Arab race ever mentioned in the Quran or authentic hadiths?

                    Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) was of the opinion that Arabs ARE SUPERIOR (Afdal) than Non-Arabs and he claimed that this was the view that was held by the MAJORITY of the scholars – ‘Al-Jamhoor’- .

                    He wrote: “And the MAJORITY of scholars are of the opinion that the Arab species is better (Afdal) than the Non-Arab (species) just as the nation of Quraish is better (Afdal) than the Non-Qurai****e nations and (just as) the nation of Bani Haashim is better (Afdal) than the Non-Bani Haashim (nations).” Majm’u Al-Fataawa 19/29

                    Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) wrote:

                    “Verily, what Ahlul Sunnah is upon: Is the BELIEF (I’tiqaad) that the Arab race is better (Afdal) then the Non-Arab race. Whether (the Non-Arabs) are Hebrews, Aramaic, Romans, Persians and other than them…”. Iqtidaa As-Siraatil-Mustaqeem 2/419

                    Abu Muhammad, Harb ibn Ismail ibn Khalaf Al-Kirmaany (died 280 – ra) who was one of the students and companions of Imaam Ahmed (ra) also mentioned this point when he wrote about the descriptions and BELIEFS of the PEOPLE OF THE SUNNAH.


                    Shiekh-ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) said:

                    “Know that the Ahaadith (that show) the superiority of Quraish and then the superiority of Bani Haashim are numerous and this is not the place (to gather all of them) but they also prove this (superiority of the Arab over Non-Arabs).

                    And this is due to the fact that the relationship of Quraish to the Arabs is just like the relationship of the Arabs to the rest of the people (i.e. Qurai****es are superior to Non-Qurai****es and the Arabs are superior to Non-Arabs). Verily Allah the Most High has designated the Arabs and their language with ‘Ahkaam’ that are peculiar and unique.

                    And then He preferred Quraish over the rest of the Arabs in what He has given them of prophecy and other than that from the ‘Khasaais’ (unique and peculiar qualities)”. Iqtidaa As-Siraat-il-Mustaqeem 2/431

                    Sheikh-ul-Islam, Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) also said:

                    “…The superiority of the Arab race and then (the superiority of) Quraish and then (the superiority of) Bani Haashim, is not simply due to the fact the Prophet (peace be upon him) is from them – even though this is (a point) of superiority – but instead, they themselves are superior within themselves“. Iqtidaa As-Siraatil-Mustaqeem 2/420



                    Source: http://singularvoice.wordpress.com/2...e-master-race/
                    You misunderstood the hadith.

                    According to the understanding of scholars, the last sermon only refers to Shariah rulings, that both arabs and non-arabs are equal infront of shariah law. However, this doesn't contradict the belief that arabs are superior to non-arabs according to the understanding of Ahlus Sunnah.

                    Secondly, you are wrong in saying only salafis and Ibn Taymiyyah hold this. If you hold the deviant and bidah belief that arabs are not superior you have officially left ahlus sunnah and become a deviant att best and kaafir at worst.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                      Originally posted by Abu-Sufyaan View Post
                      because preference of arabs comes when they are equal in taqwa and deen.
                      Wow.
                      You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                      You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                        Originally posted by Calender121438 View Post
                        1) I meant NOT trying to offend you, I want the best for you.

                        2) Please also read this thread: http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...ic-communities
                        You didn't offend me. I never lose my sleep over what people think. You are free to think what you like. I won't be responsible for your actions just like you will not be responsible for mine.

                        However, if the superiority of the Arabs in this temporary world bothers you then you should know that you still have your sights set on this worldly life. You have a long way to go when it comes to your spiritual development.

                        There are people taller than you
                        There are people smarter than you
                        There are people wealthier than you
                        There are people who are better looking than you
                        There are people who will run faster than you
                        There are people who will out do you in any skill
                        There are people who are more charismatic than you

                        Do you know the common denominator in all of that? It all has to do with this temporary worldly life.

                        The Arabs are superior as a genus over others. That is limited to this world.

                        You will have Arabs in the Fire. You will have Arabs who will never see Paradise.

                        The criteria for the one thing which matters, namely the next life, is Taqwaa.

                        Allaah has clearly stated that in the Qur'aan.

                        I do not see why you are bothered if the Arabs are better than the non-Arabs.
                        Watch those eyes

                        Comment


                        • Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                          Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
                          You didn't offend me. I never lose my sleep over what people think. You are free to think what you like. I won't be responsible for your actions just like you will not be responsible for mine.

                          However, if the superiority of the Arabs in this temporary world bothers you then you should know that you still have your sights set on this worldly life. You have a long way to go when it comes to your spiritual development.

                          There are people taller than you
                          There are people smarter than you
                          There are people wealthier than you
                          There are people who are better looking than you
                          There are people who will run faster than you
                          There are people who will out do you in any skill
                          There are people who are more charismatic than you

                          Do you know the common denominator in all of that? It all has to do with this temporary worldly life.

                          The Arabs are superior as a genus over others. That is limited to this world.

                          You will have Arabs in the Fire. You will have Arabs who will never see Paradise.

                          The criteria for the one thing which matters, namely the next life, is Taqwaa.

                          Allaah has clearly stated that in the Qur'aan.

                          I do not see why you are bothered if the Arabs are better than the non-Arabs.
                          1) Subhanallah. I swear by Allah if Islam taught what you said here, I would have left Islam a long time ago:

                          2) Please read this thread: http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...olution-theory

                          3) And then please really reflect on this thread: http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...ic-communities

                          4) Then finally read this thread to see if you are worshiping Allah or Ibn Taymiyyah: http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...ikhs(Reminder)

                          Comment


                          • Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                            Originally posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
                            Wow.
                            exactly. This the problem.
                            Stop being apologetic to Kuffars!

                            If I don't engage with you or reply to any of your question, it's likely because I find you racist and a total waste of time.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                              Originally posted by abufulaans View Post
                              We want to fight coconuts because they reject islamic rulings that they dislike and even use daleel wrongly to reject it like fools
                              Yet as soon as something that we don't like comes we start rejecting it like coconuts and use proof wrongly just like they do?

                              I think we need to calm down and understand the ahadith correctly, this isn't a view of Ibn Taymiyyah, it's the view of the vast majority of Arab and non Arab scholars that have come, but maybe you have misunderstood.
                              I am not arguing against the aquired superiority of Arabs. The Poster is a racist because he attributed superioity to rightouness simply because he is Arab over a non-Arab Muslim.

                              This is racism.

                              evertything about Arab superiority is in Dunya, not ahkira. The one who thinks he is supeeior in Ahkira because he is Arab is racit.
                              Stop being apologetic to Kuffars!

                              If I don't engage with you or reply to any of your question, it's likely because I find you racist and a total waste of time.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                                Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
                                You didn't offend me. I never lose my sleep over what people think. You are free to think what you like. I won't be responsible for your actions just like you will not be responsible for mine.

                                However, if the superiority of the Arabs in this temporary world bothers you then you should know that you still have your sights set on this worldly life. You have a long way to go when it comes to your spiritual development.

                                There are people taller than you
                                There are people smarter than you
                                There are people wealthier than you
                                There are people who are better looking than you
                                There are people who will run faster than you
                                There are people who will out do you in any skill
                                There are people who are more charismatic than you
                                None of those things make you superior compared to another Muslim, futile examples.
                                You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                                You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

                                Comment

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