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Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

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    #16
    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

    As-Salam 'Aliekum,

    Just to add to the argument here, unlike racial theory - Islamically speaking - an Arab is the one who speaks Arabic;


    Mohammed صلى الله عليه و سلم said about the Arabs "...O people! The Lord is One and the Father [Adam] is one. Arabness (al-`arabiyyah) is not, in any of you, inherited from father or mother but it is only the language that is spoken (innama hiya al-lisan). So, whoever speaks Arabic then he is an Arab..." - Kanz Al-'Ummal

    I hope this helps
    ألإخواننا والموت قد حال دوننا، وللموت حكم نافذ في الخلائق
    سبقتكم للموت والعمرطية وأعلم أن الكل لا بد لاحقي
    بعيشكم أو باضطجاعي في الثرى، ألم تك في صفو من العيش الرائق؟
    فمن مر بي فليمض بي مترحما ولا يك منسيا وفاء الأصادق

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      #17
      Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

      Originally posted by Medievalist View Post
      This guy is firing loaded statements and you lot are accepting being the target.

      The superiority of the Arabs over the non-Arabs is purely and simply because of their connection with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: and every believer knows that everything that has a nisbat with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: is elevated because of this.

      The thread starter is taking european concepts of superior races and applying them where they don't apply. The Nazi concept of superior race also included a dehumanisation of the non-Aryan. The Hindu caste system is similar where the invading eurasians dehumanised the dark-skinned locals. and similarly with the Jews and their gentiles.

      Our Islam does nothing of the sort. The non-Arab can excel and surpass an Arab, an Arab can excel and surpass a non-Arab. Their ultimate value is on their taqwa.
      :jkk:

      Originally posted by Glorfindel View Post
      As-Salam 'Aliekum,

      Just to add to the argument here, unlike racial theory - Islamically speaking - an Arab is the one who speaks Arabic;


      Mohammed صلى الله عليه و سلم said about the Arabs "...O people! The Lord is One and the Father [Adam] is one. Arabness (al-`arabiyyah) is not, in any of you, inherited from father or mother but it is only the language that is spoken (innama hiya al-lisan). So, whoever speaks Arabic then he is an Arab..." - Kanz Al-'Ummal

      I hope this helps
      :wswrwb:

      :jkk:
      "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

      The Prophet :saw: said:

      "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

      muslim

      Narrated 'Abdullah:

      The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


      "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

      By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

      [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

      Comment


        #18
        Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

        in fact this superiority is based on taqwa, as most of the companions of the Prophet sallahu alihye wasalam were Arabs, and it were they that gave the scarifices of bringing down the two tyrannt empires of the time, the persian sassanid, and the byzantine romans, and brought the light of the truth from Spain to China, and from there to the whole world.

        Just look at it from this prespective, through the Arab companions/followers of the Prophet, the peoples of Iran, Africa, Middle east, Europe, China came into Islam. And as they and their generations practice getting closer to Allah, the original Arabs companions, followers of the Prophet, and preachers, still benefit and get rewarded in their graves for their original contribution, as they were the cause, and their ranks in front of Allah increase further.

        Again this virtue of being closer to Allah is due to taqwa, and the sign of nobility is being more down trodden and humble to the creation, and open, caring and accepting to others of one's own, and it is these qualities that make a people nobler that the rest( as Allah says in His book, His servants are those that walk on the earth with humbleness, and that He swt bringing out a people whom He loves and they love Him, lowly to the believers and high on the disbelievers) , and here in these qualities more of the Arabs proved themselves as such, but they are not the only ones, for Allah swt also mentions the Aal-Imran, or household of Amram, who were from the Bani Israel, as being mustafeen or elevated ones as well from the rest of the creation, and they are not from the Arabs.

        Allah says in His book :

        Lo! Allah preferred Adam and Noah and the Family of Abraham and the Family of 'Imran above (all His) creatures. They were descendants one of another. Allah is Hearer, Knower. (Remember) when the wife of 'Imran said: My Lord! I have vowed unto Thee that which is in my belly as a consecrated (offering). Accept it from me. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower! And when she was delivered she said: My Lord! Lo! I am delivered of a female - Allah knew best of what she was delivered - the male is not as the female; and lo! I have named her Mary, and lo! I crave Thy protection for her and for her offspring from Satan the outcast. ( Quran 3:33-36 )
        Please Re-update your Signature

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          #19
          Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

          Originally posted by Literacy View Post
          I would just like to see the answers of the Salafis in response to these rulings by their scholars, nothing else. Preferably, non-Arab salafis. I can understand why an Arab would be a salafi, as it pushes their agenda of being a master race, but a non-Arab salafi supporting this is quite the circumstance...
          majority of Arabs are Muqallids so to say non-salafis , so what's your point ?
          Where there are no Ulemah(Scholars) there are many Muftis.

          I
          deal System of Living for All Mankind .

          Comment


            #20
            Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

            Originally posted by Medievalist View Post
            This guy is firing loaded statements and you lot are accepting being the target.

            The superiority of the Arabs over the non-Arabs is purely and simply because of their connection with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: and every believer knows that everything that has a nisbat with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: is elevated because of this.

            The thread starter is taking european concepts of superior races and applying them where they don't apply. The Nazi concept of superior race also included a dehumanisation of the non-Aryan. The Hindu caste system is similar where the invading eurasians dehumanised the dark-skinned locals. and similarly with the Jews and their gentiles.

            Our Islam does nothing of the sort. The non-Arab can excel and surpass an Arab, an Arab can excel and surpass a non-Arab. Their ultimate value is on their taqwa.
            The act of the Thread Starter is indeed mischevious and you have refuted quite well .
            Where there are no Ulemah(Scholars) there are many Muftis.

            I
            deal System of Living for All Mankind .

            Comment


              #21
              Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

              I was always told to love Arabs etc because Prophet Muhammed s.a.w was an Arab, that i can understand that, althought i dont agree that with excusing every Arab state and Arab person, i can also understand Prophet Muhammed was the best of creation, and the people around him were the best (Majority Arabs, some Non Arabs), and that his linage is among the best, finally the empthases of prophet Muhammed s.a.w in his last sermon pretty much somes it up, i think it clears things up in regards to what concerns us (religion) that in terms of Islam we are equal and taqwa is what matters.

              BUT....while doing my research, i came across somthing, i wont share here.

              but is it true, if an Arab girl marries a Non Arab, the marriage is Invalid according to some/most ulama? :S

              Does that mean id have to reject any potentails on that basis? because they are an Arab girl :S

              (Can someone who knows what they talking about answer people)
              Last edited by myidea; 18-12-10, 08:05 PM.

              Comment


                #22
                Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                Originally posted by myidea View Post
                I was always told to love Arabs etc because Prophet Muhammed s.a.w was an Arab, that i can understand that, althought i dont agree that with excusing every Arab state and Arab person, i can also understand Prophet Muhammed was the best of creation, and the people around him were the best (Majority Arabs, some Non Arabs), and that his linage is among the best, finally the empthases of prophet Muhammed s.a.w in his last sermon pretty much somes it up, i think it clears things up in regards to what concerns us (religion) that in terms of Islam we are equal and taqwa is what matters.

                BUT....while doing my research, i came across somthing, i wont share here.

                but is it true, if an Arab girl marries a Non Arab, the marriage is Invalid according to some/most ulama? :S

                Does that mean id have to reject any potentails on that basis? because they are an Arab girl :S

                (Can someone who knows what they talking about answer people)
                imam shafi and imam nawawi were of the opinion a father could reject a suitor for being non arab but not that the nikkah wouldnt be valid, just it was a valid reason for rejection if they chose to use it but up to the father and girl. i believe imam shafi also said lack of wealth could be used as well.

                imam abu hanifa and others said it was not a matter to reject over but only a preference and stuck to the matters mentioned in the hadith that only matters to reject over are bad character and matters of deen.

                there isnt really much evidence for it being a valid criterion for rejection, much less invalididating the marriage, in fact a large amount of evidence to the opposite such as the marriage of Bilal (ra) and other non arab male sahabah to arab women of the time as well as a quite specific hadith mentioning the criterion for acceptance and rjection in marriage.
                Daw'ud... is retired from ummah forum

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                  Originally posted by dawud_uk View Post
                  imam shafi and imam nawawi were of the opinion a father could reject a suitor for being non arab but not that the nikkah wouldnt be valid, just it was a valid reason for rejection if they chose to use it but up to the father and girl. i believe imam shafi also said lack of wealth could be used as well.

                  imam abu hanifa and others said it was not a matter to reject over but only a preference and stuck to the matters mentioned in the hadith that only matters to reject over are bad character and matters of deen.

                  there isnt really much evidence for it being a valid criterion for rejection, much less invalididating the marriage, in fact a large amount of evidence to the opposite such as the marriage of Bilal (ra) and other non arab male sahabah to arab women of the time as well as a quite specific hadith mentioning the criterion for acceptance and rjection in marriage.
                  i see...
                  And the (faithful) slaves of the Most Gracious (All‚h) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness. (25:63)

                  O You who believe! Shall I guide you to a trade that will save you from a painful torment? (10) That you believe in All‚h and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW),and that you strive hard and fight in the Cause of All‚h with your wealth and your lives, that will be better for you, if you but know! (11) (If you do so) He will forgive you your sins, and admit you into Gardens under which rivers flow, and pleasant dwellings in Adn (Edn) Paradise; that is indeed the great success. (12)

                  JazakAllah khair for the duas but i would prefer duas for shahadah instead.

                  sponsor an orphan

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                    well said :jkk:

                    Originally posted by Medievalist View Post
                    This guy is firing loaded statements and you lot are accepting being the target.

                    The superiority of the Arabs over the non-Arabs is purely and simply because of their connection with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: and every believer knows that everything that has a nisbat with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: is elevated because of this.

                    The thread starter is taking european concepts of superior races and applying them where they don't apply. The Nazi concept of superior race also included a dehumanisation of the non-Aryan. The Hindu caste system is similar where the invading eurasians dehumanised the dark-skinned locals. and similarly with the Jews and their gentiles.

                    Our Islam does nothing of the sort. The non-Arab can excel and surpass an Arab, an Arab can excel and surpass a non-Arab. Their ultimate value is on their taqwa.
                    The enforcement of Muslim Brotherhood is the greatest social ideal of Islam. On it was based the Prophet's (SAW) sermon on his last pilgrimage, and Islam cannot be completely realized until this ideal is achieved. '
                    (Shaikh Maulana Muhammad Yusuf)
                    In Lam Takun Ghaadiban Annee Falaa Ubaalee...

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                      Originally posted by myidea View Post

                      but is it true, if an Arab girl marries a Non Arab, the marriage is Invalid according to some/most ulama? :S

                      Does that mean id have to reject any potentails on that basis? because they are an Arab girl :S

                      (Can someone who knows what they talking about answer people)
                      That's a lie.

                      http://islamqa.com/en/ref/13780/marry%20arab

                      Interracial marriages are halal. Nothing to even think about.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                        Originally posted by Medievalist View Post
                        This guy is firing loaded statements and you lot are accepting being the target.

                        The superiority of the Arabs over the non-Arabs is purely and simply because of their connection with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: and every believer knows that everything that has a nisbat with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: is elevated because of this.

                        The thread starter is taking european concepts of superior races and applying them where they don't apply. The Nazi concept of superior race also included a dehumanisation of the non-Aryan. The Hindu caste system is similar where the invading eurasians dehumanised the dark-skinned locals. and similarly with the Jews and their gentiles.

                        Our Islam does nothing of the sort. The non-Arab can excel and surpass an Arab, an Arab can excel and surpass a non-Arab. Their ultimate value is on their taqwa.
                        Please, no one mentioned Europeans or Nazis. This is comparing apples and oranges; racism will always be racism. There are many rulings of Ibn Taymiyyah where he stated that it is severely disliked for an Arab woman to marry a non-Arab, only an Arab can hold powerful political positions, and an Arab is not subjected to Zakat (Tax). That is Arab nationalism, and is trying to use Islam to push Arab hegemony.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                          Originally posted by dawud_uk View Post
                          imam shafi and imam nawawi were of the opinion a father could reject a suitor for being non arab but not that the nikkah wouldnt be valid, just it was a valid reason for rejection if they chose to use it but up to the father and girl. i believe imam shafi also said lack of wealth could be used as well.

                          imam abu hanifa and others said it was not a matter to reject over but only a preference and stuck to the matters mentioned in the hadith that only matters to reject over are bad character and matters of deen.

                          there isnt really much evidence for it being a valid criterion for rejection, much less invalididating the marriage, in fact a large amount of evidence to the opposite such as the marriage of Bilal (ra) and other non arab male sahabah to arab women of the time as well as a quite specific hadith mentioning the criterion for acceptance and rjection in marriage.
                          So you're basically saying it's completely okay for the Arab nationalists to reject pious muslims marrying their daughters, but it is haram for the non-Arab wali to reject the Arab man seeking the female under their care?

                          That reeks of Arab nationalism.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                            Originally posted by Abdul-Curim View Post
                            The act of the Thread Starter is indeed mischevious and you have refuted quite well .
                            Maybe he is still waiting for his asylum application to go through.
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZVEydn3RKk

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                              Originally posted by IbnulQayyim View Post
                              mayb u dont get the view they are saying from. maybe u do

                              i take scholars before laymen opinions
                              Yes, follow your scholars while I follow the Quran. We'll see where that gets us.

                              I leave you with this verse: "They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their priests to be their lords besides Allah"
                              (Quran 9:31)

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

                                Originally posted by Umm_Hanzalah View Post
                                Maybe he is still waiting for his asylum application to go through.
                                How about you state your ethnicity?

                                Then we can have a fair race-war. I'm game.

                                Comment

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