Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

[Glorfindel]

Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

As-Salam 'Aliekum,

Just to add to the argument here, unlike racial theory - Islamically speaking - an Arab is the one who speaks Arabic;


Mohammed صلى الله عليه و سلم said about the Arabs "...O people! The Lord is One and the Father [Adam] is one. Arabness (al-`arabiyyah) is not, in any of you, inherited from father or mother but it is only the language that is spoken (innama hiya al-lisan). So, whoever speaks Arabic then he is an Arab..." - Kanz Al-'Ummal

I hope this helps

[*asiya*]

Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

This guy is firing loaded statements and you lot are accepting being the target.

The superiority of the Arabs over the non-Arabs is purely and simply because of their connection with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: and every believer knows that everything that has a nisbat with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: is elevated because of this.

The thread starter is taking european concepts of superior races and applying them where they don't apply. The Nazi concept of superior race also included a dehumanisation of the non-Aryan. The Hindu caste system is similar where the invading eurasians dehumanised the dark-skinned locals. and similarly with the Jews and their gentiles.

Our Islam does nothing of the sort. The non-Arab can excel and surpass an Arab, an Arab can excel and surpass a non-Arab. Their ultimate value is on their taqwa.

:jkk:

As-Salam 'Aliekum,

Just to add to the argument here, unlike racial theory - Islamically speaking - an Arab is the one who speaks Arabic;


Mohammed صلى الله عليه و سلم said about the Arabs "...O people! The Lord is One and the Father [Adam] is one. Arabness (al-`arabiyyah) is not, in any of you, inherited from father or mother but it is only the language that is spoken (innama hiya al-lisan). So, whoever speaks Arabic then he is an Arab..." - Kanz Al-'Ummal

I hope this helps

:wswrwb:

:jkk:

[Muawiyah1]

Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

in fact this superiority is based on taqwa, as most of the companions of the Prophet sallahu alihye wasalam were Arabs, and it were they that gave the scarifices of bringing down the two tyrannt empires of the time, the persian sassanid, and the byzantine romans, and brought the light of the truth from Spain to China, and from there to the whole world.

Just look at it from this prespective, through the Arab companions/followers of the Prophet, the peoples of Iran, Africa, Middle east, Europe, China came into Islam. And as they and their generations practice getting closer to Allah, the original Arabs companions, followers of the Prophet, and preachers, still benefit and get rewarded in their graves for their original contribution, as they were the cause, and their ranks in front of Allah increase further.

Again this virtue of being closer to Allah is due to taqwa, and the sign of nobility is being more down trodden and humble to the creation, and open, caring and accepting to others of one's own, and it is these qualities that make a people nobler that the rest( as Allah says in His book, His servants are those that walk on the earth with humbleness, and that He swt bringing out a people whom He loves and they love Him, lowly to the believers and high on the disbelievers) , and here in these qualities more of the Arabs proved themselves as such, but they are not the only ones, for Allah swt also mentions the Aal-Imran, or household of Amram, who were from the Bani Israel, as being mustafeen or elevated ones as well from the rest of the creation, and they are not from the Arabs.

Allah says in His book :

Lo! Allah preferred Adam and Noah and the Family of Abraham and the Family of 'Imran above (all His) creatures. They were descendants one of another. Allah is Hearer, Knower. (Remember) when the wife of 'Imran said: My Lord! I have vowed unto Thee that which is in my belly as a consecrated (offering). Accept it from me. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower! And when she was delivered she said: My Lord! Lo! I am delivered of a female - Allah knew best of what she was delivered - the male is not as the female; and lo! I have named her Mary, and lo! I crave Thy protection for her and for her offspring from Satan the outcast. ( Quran 3:33-36 )

[Abdul-Curim]

Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

I would just like to see the answers of the Salafis in response to these rulings by their scholars, nothing else. Preferably, non-Arab salafis. I can understand why an Arab would be a salafi, as it pushes their agenda of being a master race, but a non-Arab salafi supporting this is quite the circumstance...

majority of Arabs are Muqallids so to say non-salafis , so what's your point ?

[Abdul-Curim]

Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

This guy is firing loaded statements and you lot are accepting being the target.

The superiority of the Arabs over the non-Arabs is purely and simply because of their connection with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: and every believer knows that everything that has a nisbat with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: is elevated because of this.

The thread starter is taking european concepts of superior races and applying them where they don't apply. The Nazi concept of superior race also included a dehumanisation of the non-Aryan. The Hindu caste system is similar where the invading eurasians dehumanised the dark-skinned locals. and similarly with the Jews and their gentiles.

Our Islam does nothing of the sort. The non-Arab can excel and surpass an Arab, an Arab can excel and surpass a non-Arab. Their ultimate value is on their taqwa.

The act of the Thread Starter is indeed mischevious and you have refuted quite well .

[myidea]

Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

I was always told to love Arabs etc because Prophet Muhammed s.a.w was an Arab, that i can understand that, althought i dont agree that with excusing every Arab state and Arab person, i can also understand Prophet Muhammed was the best of creation, and the people around him were the best (Majority Arabs, some Non Arabs), and that his linage is among the best, finally the empthases of prophet Muhammed s.a.w in his last sermon pretty much somes it up, i think it clears things up in regards to what concerns us (religion) that in terms of Islam we are equal and taqwa is what matters.

BUT....while doing my research, i came across somthing, i wont share here.

but is it true, if an Arab girl marries a Non Arab, the marriage is Invalid according to some/most ulama? :S

Does that mean id have to reject any potentails on that basis? because they are an Arab girl :S

(Can someone who knows what they talking about answer people)

[dawud_uk]

Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

I was always told to love Arabs etc because Prophet Muhammed s.a.w was an Arab, that i can understand that, althought i dont agree that with excusing every Arab state and Arab person, i can also understand Prophet Muhammed was the best of creation, and the people around him were the best (Majority Arabs, some Non Arabs), and that his linage is among the best, finally the empthases of prophet Muhammed s.a.w in his last sermon pretty much somes it up, i think it clears things up in regards to what concerns us (religion) that in terms of Islam we are equal and taqwa is what matters.

BUT....while doing my research, i came across somthing, i wont share here.

but is it true, if an Arab girl marries a Non Arab, the marriage is Invalid according to some/most ulama? :S

Does that mean id have to reject any potentails on that basis? because they are an Arab girl :S

(Can someone who knows what they talking about answer people)

imam shafi and imam nawawi were of the opinion a father could reject a suitor for being non arab but not that the nikkah wouldnt be valid, just it was a valid reason for rejection if they chose to use it but up to the father and girl. i believe imam shafi also said lack of wealth could be used as well.

imam abu hanifa and others said it was not a matter to reject over but only a preference and stuck to the matters mentioned in the hadith that only matters to reject over are bad character and matters of deen.

there isnt really much evidence for it being a valid criterion for rejection, much less invalididating the marriage, in fact a large amount of evidence to the opposite such as the marriage of Bilal (ra) and other non arab male sahabah to arab women of the time as well as a quite specific hadith mentioning the criterion for acceptance and rjection in marriage.

[uncle umar]

Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

imam shafi and imam nawawi were of the opinion a father could reject a suitor for being non arab but not that the nikkah wouldnt be valid, just it was a valid reason for rejection if they chose to use it but up to the father and girl. i believe imam shafi also said lack of wealth could be used as well.

imam abu hanifa and others said it was not a matter to reject over but only a preference and stuck to the matters mentioned in the hadith that only matters to reject over are bad character and matters of deen.

there isnt really much evidence for it being a valid criterion for rejection, much less invalididating the marriage, in fact a large amount of evidence to the opposite such as the marriage of Bilal (ra) and other non arab male sahabah to arab women of the time as well as a quite specific hadith mentioning the criterion for acceptance and rjection in marriage.

i see...

[KeeKee]

Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

well said :jkk:

This guy is firing loaded statements and you lot are accepting being the target.

The superiority of the Arabs over the non-Arabs is purely and simply because of their connection with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: and every believer knows that everything that has a nisbat with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: is elevated because of this.

The thread starter is taking european concepts of superior races and applying them where they don't apply. The Nazi concept of superior race also included a dehumanisation of the non-Aryan. The Hindu caste system is similar where the invading eurasians dehumanised the dark-skinned locals. and similarly with the Jews and their gentiles.

Our Islam does nothing of the sort. The non-Arab can excel and surpass an Arab, an Arab can excel and surpass a non-Arab. Their ultimate value is on their taqwa.

[loonietoonie]

Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

but is it true, if an Arab girl marries a Non Arab, the marriage is Invalid according to some/most ulama? :S

Does that mean id have to reject any potentails on that basis? because they are an Arab girl :S

(Can someone who knows what they talking about answer people)

That's a lie.

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/13780/marry%20arab

Interracial marriages are halal. Nothing to even think about.

[Muwahid_]

Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

This guy is firing loaded statements and you lot are accepting being the target.

The superiority of the Arabs over the non-Arabs is purely and simply because of their connection with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: and every believer knows that everything that has a nisbat with Sayyiduna Rasulullah :saw: is elevated because of this.

The thread starter is taking european concepts of superior races and applying them where they don't apply. The Nazi concept of superior race also included a dehumanisation of the non-Aryan. The Hindu caste system is similar where the invading eurasians dehumanised the dark-skinned locals. and similarly with the Jews and their gentiles.

Our Islam does nothing of the sort. The non-Arab can excel and surpass an Arab, an Arab can excel and surpass a non-Arab. Their ultimate value is on their taqwa.

Please, no one mentioned Europeans or Nazis. This is comparing apples and oranges; racism will always be racism. There are many rulings of Ibn Taymiyyah where he stated that it is severely disliked for an Arab woman to marry a non-Arab, only an Arab can hold powerful political positions, and an Arab is not subjected to Zakat (Tax). That is Arab nationalism, and is trying to use Islam to push Arab hegemony.

[Muwahid_]

Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

imam shafi and imam nawawi were of the opinion a father could reject a suitor for being non arab but not that the nikkah wouldnt be valid, just it was a valid reason for rejection if they chose to use it but up to the father and girl. i believe imam shafi also said lack of wealth could be used as well.

imam abu hanifa and others said it was not a matter to reject over but only a preference and stuck to the matters mentioned in the hadith that only matters to reject over are bad character and matters of deen.

there isnt really much evidence for it being a valid criterion for rejection, much less invalididating the marriage, in fact a large amount of evidence to the opposite such as the marriage of Bilal (ra) and other non arab male sahabah to arab women of the time as well as a quite specific hadith mentioning the criterion for acceptance and rjection in marriage.

So you're basically saying it's completely okay for the Arab nationalists to reject pious muslims marrying their daughters, but it is haram for the non-Arab wali to reject the Arab man seeking the female under their care?

That reeks of Arab nationalism.

[Umm_Hanzalah]

Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

The act of the Thread Starter is indeed mischevious and you have refuted quite well .

Maybe he is still waiting for his asylum application to go through.

[Muwahid_]

Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

mayb u dont get the view they are saying from. maybe u do

i take scholars before laymen opinions

Yes, follow your scholars while I follow the Quran. We'll see where that gets us.

I leave you with this verse: "They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their priests to be their lords besides Allah"
(Quran 9:31)

[Muwahid_]

Re: Salafis: why would Ibn Taymiyyah say this, despite the prophet (SAW) last sermon?

Maybe he is still waiting for his asylum application to go through.

How about you state your ethnicity?

Then we can have a fair race-war. I'm game.