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Seeking intercession with the Prophet (s): Its ruling according to classical scholars

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  • Rasullulah sallaho was Salam is reffered to by other titles more than three times don't fool yourself

    Each person has inside a basic decency and goodness. If he listens to it and acts on it, he is giving a great deal of what it is the world needs most. It is not complicated but it takes courage. It takes courage for a person to listen to his own goodness and act on it.

    Comment


    • @bolt

      See the post regarding sujood in this thread by your sheik
      https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/is...her-than-allah

      This is not a one off consistently he does this. His dawah here consists of rants against wahabis and finding justifications for acts of ibadah to other than Allah

      You want to take knowledge from someone like him fine that's your loss



      Each person has inside a basic decency and goodness. If he listens to it and acts on it, he is giving a great deal of what it is the world needs most. It is not complicated but it takes courage. It takes courage for a person to listen to his own goodness and act on it.

      Comment


      • In b4 an angry rant against wahabis
        Each person has inside a basic decency and goodness. If he listens to it and acts on it, he is giving a great deal of what it is the world needs most. It is not complicated but it takes courage. It takes courage for a person to listen to his own goodness and act on it.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by eesa the kiwi View Post

          Since where is there an ijma. You keep repeating this.

          ​​​​​​
          Had already cited this;


          Links at end of post if you want to read the whole thing:

          1) It should be known that visiting the grave of Prophet (Peace be upon him) is “Masnoon” [Well known] for all Muslims and they have “IJMA” over it, It has such a virtue that It has been prescribed to us as it comes in the hadith of Ibn Umar (ra) [i.e. whosoever visits my grave then my intercession becomes Wajib for him] [Qadhi Iyaad in Ash-Shifa, Volume No.2, Page No. 53]

          2) There is no disagreement among scholars that supplicating Allah through an intermediary is in principle legally valid.....
          There is no difference among groups of Muslims in their consensus on the permissibility of three types of supplicating Allah through an intermediary

          3) There is an ijma amongst the ahl ul Sunnah

          4) Consensus (ijma) that tawassul is permissible and it will be shown how

          5) All jurists comprising Imami, Shafi'i, Maliki, Hanafi and Hanbali are unanimous on the permissibility of tawassul whether during the lifetime of Muhammad or after his death.

          ​​​​​​​6) The Community has reached consensus on the fact that tawassul is permissible when belief is sound

          References:

          1- https://www.ahlus-sunna.com/index.ph...=57&Itemid=116

          2- https://seekersguidance.org/answers/...-intermediary/

          3- https://vdocuments.site/tawassul-the...l-morning.html

          4- https://questionsonislam.com/questio...es-and-hadiths

          5- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawassul

          6- https://www.livingislam.org/o/ftaw_e.html
          "When you want to cry, laugh.
          If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by eesa the kiwi View Post
            Rasullulah sallaho was Salam is reffered to by other titles more than three times don't fool yourself
            Does the Quran and Sunnah state things which are mentioned in lesser frequency not of significance?
            "When you want to cry, laugh.
            If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Bolt View Post

              Had already cited this;


              So we take evidence of ijma from Wikipedia?

              Anyway I'm done here, I try not to get involved in debates because I can't trust my tongue not to lose its cool as I proved above with the angry wahabi comment. I feel firmly that it's not permissable but I let my frustration over the dishonesty in this thread get the better of me hence posting and getting involved in an argument

              May Allah guide us all to the path he is pleased with. Apologies Bolt for any offence caused
              Each person has inside a basic decency and goodness. If he listens to it and acts on it, he is giving a great deal of what it is the world needs most. It is not complicated but it takes courage. It takes courage for a person to listen to his own goodness and act on it.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by eesa the kiwi View Post
                @bolt

                See the post regarding sujood in this thread by your sheik
                https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/is...her-than-allah

                This is not a one off consistently he does this. His dawah here consists of rants against wahabis and finding justifications for acts of ibadah to other than Allah

                You want to take knowledge from someone like him fine that's your loss


                Sheikh
                I do not know about this whole prostration issue and I can't say anything without properly taking the time to see what he has said, rn I don't have that much time on hand, but I would assume, if it is erroneous, it would not have the scholarly consensus, so I wouldn't accept it.

                Tawassul though is not ibadah to anyone other than Allah? The Hadith given was authentic so it cannot be denied.

                To be fair, he did not make up the Hadith or the ijma. If something has been done in authentic Hadith and there has been an ijma of the classical scholars, then I can't deny it. If that were to be disproven, then I would not have reason to follow.
                "When you want to cry, laugh.
                If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by eesa the kiwi View Post

                  So we take evidence of ijma from Wikipedia?

                  Anyway I'm done here, I try not to get involved in debates because I can't trust my tongue not to lose its cool as I proved above with the angry wahabi comment. I feel firmly that it's not permissable but I let my frustration over the dishonesty in this thread get the better of me hence posting and getting involved in an argument

                  May Allah guide us all to the path he is pleased with. Apologies Bolt for any offence caused
                  There were five other sources as well...

                  Ameen.
                  No offense caused.
                  Last edited by Bolt; 06-10-20, 05:22 AM. Reason: Typo
                  "When you want to cry, laugh.
                  If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by eesa the kiwi View Post
                    @bolt

                    See the post regarding sujood in this thread by your sheik
                    https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/is...her-than-allah

                    This is not a one off consistently he does this. His dawah here consists of rants against wahabis and finding justifications for acts of ibadah to other than Allah

                    You want to take knowledge from someone like him fine that's your loss


                    May I ask you why you're lying against me? I mean this is not your first time. Is this your definition of "being honest"?

                    Anyone reading the post that you linked to will see that I was quoting classical scholars: They clarified that prostration in front of a human being is a major sin in our law and in some of its forms it is disbelief, while prostration for an idol or the sun is disbelief in itself.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bolt View Post

                      Links at end of post if you want to read the whole thing:

                      1) It should be known that visiting the grave of Prophet (Peace be upon him) is “Masnoon” [Well known] for all Muslims and they have “IJMA” over it, It has such a virtue that It has been prescribed to us as it comes in the hadith of Ibn Umar (ra) [i.e. whosoever visits my grave then my intercession becomes Wajib for him] [Qadhi Iyaad in Ash-Shifa, Volume No.2, Page No. 53]

                      2) There is no disagreement among scholars that supplicating Allah through an intermediary is in principle legally valid.....
                      There is no difference among groups of Muslims in their consensus on the permissibility of three types of supplicating Allah through an intermediary

                      3) There is an ijma amongst the ahl ul Sunnah

                      4) Consensus (ijma) that tawassul is permissible and it will be shown how

                      5) All jurists comprising Imami, Shafi'i, Maliki, Hanafi and Hanbali are unanimous on the permissibility of tawassul whether during the lifetime of Muhammad or after his death.

                      ​​​​​​​6) The Community has reached consensus on the fact that tawassul is permissible when belief is sound

                      References:

                      1- https://www.ahlus-sunna.com/index.ph...=57&Itemid=116

                      2- https://seekersguidance.org/answers/...-intermediary/

                      3- https://vdocuments.site/tawassul-the...l-morning.html

                      4- https://questionsonislam.com/questio...es-and-hadiths

                      5- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawassul

                      6- https://www.livingislam.org/o/ftaw_e.html
                      Did you just Google all this?

                      1. Different topic so irrelevant.

                      2. The first part, if it's referring to the tawassul we're talking about, is a claim that must be substantiated. The second part is a different topic so irrelevant.

                      3. Claim needs to be substantiated. Who is the author?

                      4. This is a dumb article - who's the author?
                      We will be the guests of two imaginary friends and listen to their conversation in order to understand the issue better...
                      5. Claim needs to be substantiated. Also, Wiki? Now I know you're trying to wing it.

                      6. I'm sure there is consensus that actions are permissible when belief is sound. Still, the claim needs to be substantiated.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                        Did you just Google all this?

                        1. Different topic so irrelevant.

                        2. The first part, if it's referring to the tawassul we're talking about, is a claim that must be substantiated. The second part is a different topic so irrelevant.

                        3. Claim needs to be substantiated. Who is the author?

                        4. This is a dumb article - who's the author?

                        5. Claim needs to be substantiated. Also, Wiki? Now I know you're trying to wing it.

                        6. I'm sure there is consensus that actions are permissible when belief is sound. Still, the claim needs to be substantiated.
                        Okay, what would you say would make a substantiated claim?

                        EDIT: Is Wikipedia really that much of an unreliable source, wew
                        "When you want to cry, laugh.
                        If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bolt View Post

                          Okay, what would you say would make a substantiated claim?

                          EDIT: Is Wikipedia really that much of an unreliable source, wew
                          Please address the three questions I asked.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                            Please address the three questions I asked.
                            1- Erm yeah 👉👈
                            2- Can't find it
                            3- Hmm, they haven't stated it. IslamQA also doesn't state its authors, though?

                            If you tell me the criteria for substantiation then I could probably find something
                            "When you want to cry, laugh.
                            If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bolt View Post

                              1- Erm yeah 👉👈
                              2- Can't find it
                              3- Hmm, they haven't stated it. IslamQA also doesn't state its authors, though?

                              If you tell me the criteria for substantiation then I could probably find something
                              You cited unknown authors as proof for an act of worship.

                              Think about that.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Bolt View Post
                                ...If you tell me the criteria for substantiation then I could probably find something
                                I just want to know how you arrived at your conclusion.

                                Comment

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