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Seeking intercession with the Prophet (s): Its ruling according to classical scholars

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  • Originally posted by Fais View Post
    This is a very good video. He covers a lot




    This video seems to start at 2 hours & 40 mins in because that's where I've got to. But I'd recommend listening to it from the start.
    sometimes when I want to listen to Scholar from West, I listen Shaykh Israr's lectures -- He is knowledgeable and knows what he is talking+ unlike other scholars from west, he looks like a Scholar.
    "Europe died in Bosnia and was buried in Syria. Bodies of innocent children washing ashore are the
    western civilization's tombstones"


    Rajab Tayyab Erdogan

    Comment


    • this forum has so much bidah its crazy

      Comment


      • not just bidah but shirk i fear also

        Comment


        • http://www.salafiri.com/wp-content/u...sad-Part-2.pdf

          everyone read the above

          Comment



          • Originally posted by Investigator View Post
            this forum has so much bidah its crazy

            Originally posted by Investigator View Post
            not just bidah but shirk i fear also
            Care to elaborate or just throw out unsubstantiated claims?

            and dont use a pdf to defend YOUR statements

            You said it, back it up
            .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
            نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
            دولة الإسلامية باقية





            Comment


            • Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post





              Care to elaborate or just throw out unsubstantiated claims?

              and dont use a pdf to defend YOUR statements

              You said it, back it up
              hadith ahlul bidah quote all weak, what is there to say. it is shirk to worship besides allaah. the grave worshippers are mushrikin. I quote pdf as it is arranged nicely. i;m not good at typing that amount. i don't have that much time.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by AbuMubarak View Post





                Care to elaborate or just throw out unsubstantiated claims?

                and dont use a pdf to defend YOUR statements

                You said it, back it up
                Are you blind there is taghut everywhere on this forum. Are you a soofi or something??

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Investigator View Post

                  Are you blind there is taghut everywhere on this forum. Are you a soofi or something??
                  I am not blind

                  There are various Islamic opinions expressed on this forum, just as there are various Muslims in the world

                  This forum does not lean in any one direction but is open to all Muslims to discuss Islam

                  We may not agree on all points, this thread is a good example. If you'd bother to read it before your immature name-calling, you would have seen that

                  Now, a word to heed

                  We don't need more fitnah here. Not from you or anyone else

                  if you disagree with anything posted, you are welcome to bring your proofs. Not everyone will agree with you, nor will everyone agree with me or any other poster

                  that is how things work in real life and at ummah.com
                  .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                  نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                  دولة الإسلامية باقية





                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Investigator View Post

                    hadith ahlul bidah quote all weak, what is there to say. it is shirk to worship besides allaah. the grave worshippers are mushrikin. I quote pdf as it is arranged nicely. i;m not good at typing that amount. i don't have that much time.
                    If you don't have time, then maybe you should not post until you have sufficient time

                    we arent going anywhere
                    .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
                    نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
                    دولة الإسلامية باقية





                    Comment


                    • Fais Abu Sulayman ive been thinking about the talk shaykh asrar rashid did about tawassul,
                      and i cant get my head around it and i still cant understand why there would be a need for tawassul or use 'intermediateries' when you can go directly to Allah swt?

                      can you please explain so i can understand please thanks jazakAllah khayran

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post
                        Fais Abu Sulayman ive been thinking about the talk shaykh asrar rashid did about tawassul,
                        and i cant get my head around it and i still cant understand why there would be a need for tawassul or use 'intermediateries' when you can go directly to Allah swt?

                        can you please explain so i can understand please thanks jazakAllah khayran
                        I think you're thinking about it in a wrong manner. It's not an issue of "direct or indirect", but rather simply one of taking means (Asbab) and whether this falls under the permissible means or not.

                        I will give several examples:

                        - Let's say the child of a person is very ill. This person supplicates to his Lord jalla jalaluhu to cure his child.
                        Is it now allowed for this person to go to a specialist doctor and seek his help? Yes, and this with the knowledge that the one healing the ill in reality is Allah ta'ala alone without any partners. As for the doctor and his treatment then they maybe means to attain healing from Allah ta'ala.
                        Is it also allowed for this person to ask a pious person to pray for the healing of his child? Again yes, because the pious person maybe a mean for attaining healing from Allah ta'ala.

                        - On the day of judgement the people will ask different major Prophets (peace be upon them) for intercession with the wording "intercede for us to your Lord" as mentioned in Sahih al-Bukhari. In another narration also mentioned in Sahih al-Bukhari it's mentioned that the people will seek their aid.
                        What is the basis for this? It's the fact that the Prophets (peace be upon them) maybe means for attaining the help of Allah ta'ala.
                        ​​​​​
                        Why will the people not only supplicate to their Lord jalla jalaluhu and leave it at that? This because they know that it's allowed to take means.

                        Like stated before: It's not an issue of "direct vs indirect".
                        Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 4 weeks ago.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman
                          Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post
                          Fais Abu Sulayman ive been thinking about the talk shaykh asrar rashid did about tawassul,
                          and i cant get my head around it and i still cant understand why there would be a need for tawassul or use 'intermediateries' when you can go directly to Allah swt?

                          can you please explain so i can understand please thanks jazakAllah khayran
                          I think you're thinking about it in a wrong manner. It's not an issue of "direct or indirect", but rather simply one of taking means (Asbab) and whether this falls under the permissible means or not.

                          I will give several examples:

                          - Let's say the child of a person is very ill. This person supplicates to his Lord jalla jalaluhu to cure his child.
                          Is it now allowed for this person to go to a specialist doctor and seek his help? Yes, and this with the knowledge that the one healing the ill in reality is Allah ta'ala alone without any partners. As for the doctor and his treatment then they maybe means to attain healing from Allah ta'ala.
                          Is it also allowed for this person to ask a pious person to pray for the healing of his child? Again yes, because the pious person maybe a mean for attaining healing from Allah ta'ala.

                          - On the day of judgement the people will ask different major Prophets (peace be upon them) for intercession with the wording "intercede for us to your Lord" as mentioned in Sahih al-Bukhari. In another narration also mentioned in Sahih al-Bukhari it's mentioned that the people will seek their aid.
                          What is the basis for this? It's the fact that the Prophets (peace be upon them) maybe means for attaining the help of Allah ta'ala.
                          ​​​​​
                          Why will the people not only supplicate to their Lord jalla jalaluhu and leave it at that? This because they know that it's allowed to take means.

                          Like stated before: It's not an issue of "direct vs indirect".
                          Yea I agree that when you have medication you obviously are hoping Allah swt grants you shifa through it and it's just a means

                          When a pious person makes dua for you they're asking Allah swt (well that's what you'd assume)

                          Where in these examples are you seeking out dua from prophets or awliyah? I don't get it tbh

                          Are you saying there's more of a chance for dua being accepted through tawassul?

                          If that's the case wouldn't it be a better alternative and a safer one to just to recite durood shariff (salawat) at the start and end of making dua?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

                            Yea I agree that when you have medication you obviously are hoping Allah swt grants you shifa through it and it's just a means

                            When a pious person makes dua for you they're asking Allah swt (well that's what you'd assume)

                            Where in these examples are you seeking out dua from prophets or awliyah? I don't get it tbh

                            Are you saying there's more of a chance for dua being accepted through tawassul?

                            If that's the case wouldn't it be a better alternative and a safer one to just to recite durood shariff (salawat) at the start and end of making dua?
                            Sending Salawat upon our noble Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) is obviously a good thing and makes it more likely for you supplication to be accepted.

                            But why should this be a better and safer alternative as if there are only two options? Why this "either... or..." - thinking?
                            Rather one should always send Salawat and you can do Tawassul in your supplication to our Lord jalla jalaluhu additionally just like you take any other permissable means.

                            It's the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) himself, who taught the supplication O God, I ask You by those who ask of You, and by my walking, for I have not gone out of insolence, pride, ostentation, or for a reputation. I have gone out of fear of Your displeasure and seeking You contentment. I ask You to preserve me from the fire and forgive my sins, for none forgives sins except You.’ when going out to the Masjid for prayer.
                            So if saying this or the like of it would be wrong or dangerous, then he (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) wouldn't have taught it.
                            ​​​​​​

                            ​​​​​​As for asking our noble Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) to supplicate for you regarding the forgiveness of one's sins during the visitation (meaning: Tashaffu'), then you're asking him (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) to supplicate to our Lord jalla jalaluhu and are NOT supplicating to him (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam).
                            And doing this is based upon the 64th Aya of Surat al-Nisa`, because the Aya is general and not specific to the lifetime of our noble Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam).

                            So where exactly is the problem?
                            Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 4 weeks ago.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman
                              Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

                              Yea I agree that when you have medication you obviously are hoping Allah swt grants you shifa through it and it's just a means

                              When a pious person makes dua for you they're asking Allah swt (well that's what you'd assume)

                              Where in these examples are you seeking out dua from prophets or awliyah? I don't get it tbh

                              Are you saying there's more of a chance for dua being accepted through tawassul?

                              If that's the case wouldn't it be a better alternative and a safer one to just to recite durood shariff (salawat) at the start and end of making dua?
                              Sending Salawat upon our noble Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) is obviously a good thing and makes it more likely for you supplication to be accepted.

                              But why should this be a better and safer alternative as if there are only two options? Why this "either... or..." - thinking?
                              Rather one should always send Salawat and you can do Tawassul in your supplication to our Lord jalla jalaluhu additionally just like you take any other permissable means.

                              It's the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) himself, who taught the supplication O God, I ask You by those who ask of You, and by my walking, for I have not gone out of insolence, pride, ostentation, or for a reputation. I have gone out of fear of Your displeasure and seeking You contentment. I ask You to preserve me from the fire and forgive my sins, for none forgives sins except You.’ when going out to the Masjid for prayer.
                              So if saying this or the like of it would be wrong or dangerous, then he (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) wouldn't have taught it.
                              ​​​​​​

                              ​​​​​​As for asking our noble Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) to supplicate for you regarding the forgiveness of one's sins during the visitation (meaning: Tashaffu'), then you're asking him (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) to supplicate to our Lord jalla jalaluhu and are NOT supplicating to him (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam).
                              And doing this is based upon the 64th Aya of Surat al-Nisa`, because the Aya is general and not specific to the lifetime of our noble Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam).

                              So where exactly is the problem?
                              Yea but there's a difference of opinion on tawassul as even shaykh asrar rashid says (not in so many words)

                              So wouldn't it be better on an in issue which isn't crystal clear to take the safe path?

                              As in if in doubt about anything, best to avoid it wouldnt you agree?

                              Can you please tell me what all four imams say on this topic tawassul with references?

                              Also would tawassul always be done when making dua?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

                                Yea but there's a difference of opinion on tawassul as even shaykh asrar rashid says (not in so many words)

                                So wouldn't it be better on an in issue which isn't crystal clear to take the safe path?

                                As in if in doubt about anything, best to avoid it wouldnt you agree?

                                Can you please tell me what all four imams say on this topic tawassul with references?

                                Also would tawassul always be done when making dua?
                                Could you make Dua for me?
                                Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
                                "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
                                Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

                                Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
                                1/116

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