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Seeking intercession with the Prophet (s): Its ruling according to classical scholars

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  • Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

    Brother, could you do me a favour and answer six questions of mine?

    1. Is a person who asks another living person for help a disbeliever?

    2. Is a person who asks another living person to make Dua to Allah for them (Tawassul), a disbeliever?

    3. Is a person who makes dua to another living person a disbeliever?

    4. Is a person who asks a deceased person for help a disbeliever?

    5. Is a person who asks a deceased person to make Dua to Allah for them (Tawassul), a disbeliever?

    6. Is a person who makes dua to a deceased person a disbeliever?


    No I am not trying to catch you out dear brother, I will insha'Allah post my own answers to these six questions too.
    I have made it easy for you, even saying you can give a yes/no answer. What prevents you?

    And if you're answer is "I don't know" then answer "I don't know".
    Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
    "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
    Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

    Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
    1/116

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan
      Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

      for a start let me ask you are you an aalim or someone whos studied the deen as in a student of knowledge?

      no offence is meant but id rather take knowledge from a learned person rather then a fellow layman as its something you can appreciate

      im not going to answer those quesitons, why? because i dont need to explain myself to anyone and i am not in court and not on trail

      but i will let you know why i said what i said, reason being is whenever ive been in a salafi/ahle hadith masjid say for example green lane masjid, they always have a strong emphasis on tawheed, how can that ever be a bad thing? how cna building your foundation of tawheed be a bad thing? i mean regardless to if youre salafi/barelvi/deobandi etc etc anyone helping strenghting your tawheed should be an admirable trait

      please dont be offended with my post, by Allah i dont mean no offence but just understand where im coming from and my points, thanks brother jazakAllah khayran
      They call to Tawheed but they are not from its people. I am surprised, you really think I am trying to interrogate you, no I am not. You wished to understand these issues earlier and now you turn away and claim the ps.Salafiyyah are upon Tawhid? And when I ask you some basic questions - and provide you with my answers - you refuse to answer.


      No I am not a scholar or student of knowledge, this is not an issue where you are meant to be blindly following scholars such that you unable to indepedently explain what position you hold. You are supposed to understand things for yourself and must be able to explain and defend your own views. That's all I've asked you for - for you to explain what views you hold. That is what the six questions are. But you refuse to even tell me what your views are? Why?
      Just because I said they emphasize tawheed doesn't mean you should go off on a tangent

      Yes I wish you understand certain things, just because I admire certain qualities if the salafis doesn't mean j don't admure certain qualities if other groups like barelvis/deobandis etc etc

      Why are you being so forceful to ask for answers?
      I don't understand

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

        im not going to answer those quesitons, why? because i dont need to explain myself to anyone and i am not in court and not on trail
        On second thoughts, if you do not want to answer, you do not need to. But reflect on what I've said in my answers and listen to what the non-ps.Salafi Shuyukh have said on this. You are making a serious mistake if you fall for their slogans, and if you cannot answer those questions.

        People call to all sorts of things, but there is more to what they say behind the surface.

        Anyway, I apologise for pestering you on the issue my brother.
        Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
        "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
        Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

        Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
        1/116

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan
          Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

          for a start let me ask you are you an aalim or someone whos studied the deen as in a student of knowledge?

          no offence is meant but id rather take knowledge from a learned person rather then a fellow layman as its something you can appreciate

          im not going to answer those quesitons, why? because i dont need to explain myself to anyone and i am not in court and not on trail

          but i will let you know why i said what i said, reason being is whenever ive been in a salafi/ahle hadith masjid say for example green lane masjid, they always have a strong emphasis on tawheed, how can that ever be a bad thing? how cna building your foundation of tawheed be a bad thing? i mean regardless to if youre salafi/barelvi/deobandi etc etc anyone helping strenghting your tawheed should be an admirable trait

          please dont be offended with my post, by Allah i dont mean no offence but just understand where im coming from and my points, thanks brother jazakAllah khayran
          They call to Tawheed but they are not from its people. I am surprised, you really think I am trying to interrogate you, no I am not. You wished to understand these issues earlier and now you turn away and claim the ps.Salafiyyah are upon Tawhid? And when I ask you some basic questions - and provide you with my answers - you refuse to answer.


          No I am not a scholar or student of knowledge, this is not an issue where you are meant to be blindly following scholars such that you unable to indepedently explain what position you hold. You are supposed to understand things for yourself and must be able to explain and defend your own views. That's all I've asked you for - for you to explain what views you hold. That is what the six questions are. But you refuse to even tell me what your views are? Why?
          I didn't say 'salafiyyah are in tawheed', don't twist my words

          Please share the post where as you claim I said 'salafiyyah are upon tawheed' please

          I simply said they emphasize tawheed', whether I agree with their version of tawheed' is another thing but you are literally making a mountain out if a mole

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

            Why are you being so forceful to ask for answers?
            I don't understand
            It was wrong of me to be so forceful. We are from our father Adam Alayhis Salam and he was forgetful so I am forgetful. We shouldn't interrogate people like this, though that was not my initial intention. I realise it was wrong to incessantly pester you on the issue.

            Do not feel you have to answer.

            Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
            "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
            Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

            Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
            1/116

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

              I didn't say 'salafiyyah are in tawheed', don't twist my words

              Please share the post where as you claim I said 'salafiyyah are upon tawheed' please

              I simply said they emphasize tawheed', whether I agree with their version of tawheed' is another thing but you are literally making a mountain out if a mole
              Yes I noticed that, I misunderstood you. It was not my intention to twist any words.
              Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
              "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
              Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

              Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
              1/116

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

                Yes I noticed that, I misunderstood you. It was not my intention to twist any words.
                What a plonker.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                  Right, so you are following an opinion and shouldn't be involved in this discussion.
                  And all this time, so were you...


                  Comment


                  • This is a very good video. He covers a lot




                    This video seems to start at 2 hours & 40 mins in because that's where I've got to. But I'd recommend listening to it from the start.
                    Last edited by Fais; 26-03-21, 09:11 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Fais
                      This is a very good video. He covers a lot




                      This video seems to start at 2 hours & 40 mins in because that's where I've got to. But I'd recommend listening to it from the start.
                      Thanks I'm going to watch this in sha Allah, you finished the whole talk?

                      I do respect and admire shaykh asrar rashid, he's knowledgeable and wise Masha'Allah Alhamdulillah Allahumma Bareek 💯👍🤲

                      Comment


                      • @fais very interesting talk so far subhanAllah

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

                          Thanks I'm going to watch this in sha Allah, you finished the whole talk?

                          I do respect and admire shaykh asrar rashid, he's knowledgeable and wise Masha'Allah Alhamdulillah Allahumma Bareek 💯👍🤲
                          No. Still need to watch the last hour. I got to where he's talking about the bidah in the sub continent.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Fais View Post

                            No. Still need to watch the last hour. I got to where he's talking about the bidah in the sub continent.
                            he made an interesting point that ibn taymiyyah didnt rebel against the muslim leader/sultan against the mongols at the time unlike how IAW did against the muslim ottomans
                            (dont remember the timeline on the vid exactly where he mentioned this)

                            Comment


                            • Fais just finished the talk by shaykh asrar rashid, very interesting to say the least, some food for thought for sure but i still cant understand why there would be a need for tawassul or 'intermediateries' when you can go directly to Allah swt

                              im going to listen to this talk next in sha Allah, looks interesting

                              Dialogue Series 1: Refuting Salafis on Attributes of Allah

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8la_tMe7v8

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Fais View Post

                                No. Still need to watch the last hour. I got to where he's talking about the bidah in the sub continent.
                                As'salamu Alai'kum,
                                Fais Janu, how are you ?
                                "Europe died in Bosnia and was buried in Syria. Bodies of innocent children washing ashore are the
                                western civilization's tombstones"


                                Rajab Tayyab Erdogan

                                Comment

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