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Seeking intercession with the Prophet (s): Its ruling according to classical scholars

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  • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
    I'm asking questions about "seeking intercession with the Prophet " which is the topic of the thread. Seems like you just want to project your position without anyone asking you any questions at all.
    ​​​​​​Go and count the number of questions that you have brought and then dare to repeat your "any questions at all"-sentence again. If my answers don't make sense to you, then leave it at that.
    If something was allowed by the Jumhur of the classical scholars, then the one not making sense is the one acting as if their position has no basis at all.

    At some point you simply need to stop and also answer the questions of the other side and concentrate on the points that are mentioned.
    ​​​​​
    And you forgot the "... according to classical scholars"-part it seems. You think more of it like "according to AA al-UFi"!

    -_-

    Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 13-03-21, 03:25 PM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post

      ​​​​​​Go and count the number of questions that you have brought and then dare to repeat your "any questions at all"-sentence again. If my answers don't make sense to you, then leave it at that.
      If something was allowed by the Jumhur of the classical scholars, then the one not making sense is the one acting as if their position has no basis at all.

      At some point you simply need to stop and also answer the questions of the other side and concentrate on the points that are mentioned.
      ​​​​​
      And you forgot the "... according to classical scholars"-part it seems. You think more of it like "according to AA al-UFi"!

      -_-
      Well, according to the messenger of Allah as I said in my first post. I mean, the only authority on intercession would be the one you are seeking intercession from. Seems weird to rely on other opinions.

      Therefore, do you have other narrations other than the hadeeth of the blind man which has been shown to be invalid?

      If you are simply making taqleed then you shouldn't be discussing the subject at all.

      Comment


      • Taken from Dar Al-Ifta al-Misriyya (I edited some things):


        Supplication through the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ (al-tawassul)



        One of the concepts within Islam that has been misunderstood in the modern age is the concept of tawassul. We need to return to the original linguistic and legal meanings of this term before we can discuss the ruling of making tawassul through the Prophet.

        The linguistic and legal meaning of a go-between (wasilah): Linguistically, al-wasilah is a rank with the king and nearness. Someone acts as a go-between with God for someone if they do something that draws them closer to Him. The wasil is the one who desires God. The poet Labid said:

        I see people unaware of their worth,
        In fact, all who have an opinion are desirous (wasil) of God.


        Someone tawassala to someone else with a wasilah if they draw closer to them by some act or another. He tawassala to him with such and such, meaning he drew closer to him with the sanctity of a bond that makes him endeared. Al-wasilah is a connection, and nearness.

        The legal meaning of al-wasilah does not depart from this linguistic definition. The main concern of a Muslim's life is to draw near to God and attain His pleasure and reward. Part of God's mercy to us is that He has given us acts of worship and opened the door of being near to Him. Muslims draw near to God with all of the different means for doing so that God has legislated. When Muslims pray they are drawing near to God in their prayer, meaning they reach to God (yatawassal) with their prayer. Based on this, the Quran commands us, in its entirety, to seek nearness to God (wasilah).

        God mentions al-wasilah in the Quran in two places. The first is when He commands it saying, O ye who believe! Be mindful of your duty to God, and seek the way of approach unto Him [al-wasilah] (5:35). The second is when God praises those who seek to draw near to him through their supplications, Those unto whom they cry seek the way of approach [al-wasilah] to their Lord, which of them shall be the nearest; they hope for His mercy and they fear His doom. Lo! the doom of thy Lord is to be shunned (17:57).

        The four schools of Sunni jurisprudence are in agreement concerning the permissibility and even the preferability of making tawassul through the Prophet, and they make no distinction between his life and after his passing. The only person who differed (shadhdha) is Ibn Taymiyah, who claimed that there is a distinction between making tawassul through the Prophet during his life and after his passing, but his lone opinion (shudhudh) has no weight.
        We call upon the community to hold fast to that upon which its great Imams have agreed. The verse from the Quran that states, And if, when they had wronged themselves, they had but come to you and asked forgiveness of God, and asked forgiveness of the messenger, they would have found God Forgiving, Merciful (4:64), remains true after the passing of the Prophet. In another research, we related that which affirms the preferability of making tawassul through the Prophet and asking him to seek forgiveness on one's behalf. In what follows we will mention the evidence from the Quran and the sunna upon which the consensus of the four schools relied.




        Firstly, the evidence from the Quran:

        1) O ye who believe! Be mindful of your duty to God, and seek the way of approach unto Him, and strive in His way in order that ye may succeed (5:35).


        2) Those unto whom they cry seek the way of approach to their Lord, which of them shall be the nearest; they hope for His mercy and they fear His doom. Lo! the doom of thy Lord is to be shunned (17:57).


        3) And if, when they had wronged themselves, they had but come to you and asked forgiveness of God, and asked forgiveness of the messenger, they would have found God Forgiving, Merciful (4:64).

        The first verse commands the believers to draw near to God with all the various means of drawing near to Him, and making tawassul through the Prophet in supplication is one of the means of drawing near to God, which will be established in detail when we discuss the evidence from the sunna. There is nothing to indicate that this verse refers to one particular wasilah as opposed to another. The command here is general and applies to all forms of wasilah by which God is pleased. Supplication is an act of worship that is accepted as long as it is not for familial ties to be severed, or something that is sinful, and as long as it is not comprised of phrases that are in contradiction with theological principles and the fundamentals of Islam.

        In the second verse God praises those believers who have responded to Him and drawn closer to him by means of the wasilah of supplication. We will show how Muslims are to make tawassul to God in their supplications from the sunna.

        In the third verse God clearly calls upon believers to go to the Prophet and to seek forgiveness of God in his presence stating that their repentance is more likely to be accepted in this way. This verse still holds true.



        Evidence from the Sunna:

        1) According to Uthman ibn Hunaif, a blind man came to the Prophet and said, "Ask God to cure me." The Prophet said, "If you like you can be patient [i.e. and suffer your blindness] for that would be better for you." The blind man said, "Ask Him." So the Prophet told him to make ablutions well and to say this supplication, "O God, I ask You, and I turn to You through Your prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad, I have turned to my Lord through you concerning this need of mine so that it may be taken care of. O God, let him intercede on my behalf."1

        Both al-Hakim and al-Tirmidhi ruled that this hadith is authentic, and we do not know of anyone who has ruled that it is weak in the modern period among those known for being stern (tashadud); Sheikh al-Albani ruled that it is authentic.2 Nobody objects to this hadith, neither to its chain of transmission, nor to its body. This hadith is evidence for the preferability of this formulation in supplication since the Prophet taught it to one of his companions. God made the miracle of His prophet known by accepting the prayer of the blind man in the very same seating (majlis).

        In reality we should not have to relate this story of the hadith that occurred during the reign of Uthman ibn Affan in order to provide evidence for the permissibility of using this formulation in supplication after the Prophet's passing. If the Prophet taught one of his companions a formula for supplication, and it is transmitted to us with a sound (sahih) chain, that is evidence for the preferability of using this supplications at all times until God inherits the earth and all who are upon it. There is nothing to make this particular for that companion only, or to restrict it to the Prophet's lifetime. The basis of legal rulings is that they are absolute and general unless a particularization or restriction has been established in its regard.

        Al-Shawkani3 said, "There is evidence in this hadith for the permissibility of making tawassul to God through the Prophet with the belief that the one who acts is God. It is God alone who is the Giver and the Preventer; that which He wills is, and that which He does not will is not."

        Due to the fact that many people today are unaware of these methodological concepts we find that it is necessary to mention the story of that hadith which clarifies that this great companion counseled those who are in need to use this formula for supplication after the passing of the Prophet.


        2) The story of the hadith: A man used to come to Uthman ibn Affan with a problem, but Uthman would not pay any attention to him or address his problem. The man encountered Uthman ibn Hunaif and complained to him. Uthman ibn Hunaif told him, "Go to the place of making ablutions and make your ablutions, then go to the mosque and pray two cycles of prayer. Then say the following: 'O God, I ask You, and I turn to You through Your prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad, I turn to my Lord through you, so take care of my need.' Then mention your need.” The man departed and did as he had been told. Then he went to Uthman ibn Affan's door. The doorkeeper came, took him by the hand, presented him to Uthman ibn Affan, and seated him with him on the carpet. [Uthman] asked him, "What is your need?" So the man mentioned his need, and Uthman took care of it. Then he told him, "You did not mention your need until this hour. Whenever you are in need come to us."4 The man left and met Uthman ibn Hunaif and said to him, "May God reward you, he used to not pay attention to my need or even turn towards me when I addressed him." Uthman ibn Hunaif said, "By God, I did not speak to him, but I saw the Messenger of God, and a blind man came to him..."5 Then he related the hadith mentioned above.

        Abd Allah ibn al-Sidiq al-Ghumari said, "This narration has been related by al-Bayhaqi in Dala'il al-Nabuwwah from the chain (tariq) of Yaqub ibn Sufyan [who said]: we were told by (hadathana) Ahmad ibn Shabib ibn Sa'id, we were told by (thana) my father, according to ('an) Ruh ibn al-Qasim, according to Abi Ja'far al-Khatami, according to Abi Umamah ibn Sahl Hunaif, according to his uncle Uthman ibn Hunaif, who said that a man used to go to Uthman ibn Affan..." mentioning the hadith in its entirety. Then he said, "Yaqub ibn Sufyan is al-Nisawi, al-Hafidh al-Imam the trustworthy (al-thiqah), rather even more than trustworthy, and this chain of transmission is authentic sahih, so the story is very authentic. Its authenticity has also been agreed upon by al-Hafidh al-Mundhiri in al-Targhib vol. 3 p. 606, and al-Hafidh al-Haythami in Majma' al-Zawa'id vol. 3 p. 379."6 This story proves that which is proven by the hadith along with closing the door in the face of those who would attempt to claim that this hadith is reserved for during the lifetime of the Prophet. As we have mentioned, there is nothing to make it so, but God willing this will strengthen the resolve and supports the correct position.


        3) The hadith of going out to the mosque to pray: According to Abu Sa’id al-Khudri that Prophet said, “Whoever says, when going to prayer, ‘O God, I ask You by those who ask of You, and by my walking, for I have not gone out of insolence, pride, ostentation, or for a reputation. I have gone out of fear of Your displeasure and seeking You contentment. I ask You to preserve me from the fire and forgive my sins, for none forgives sins except You.’ God commands seventy angels to ask for forgiveness on their behalf and He turns towards them with His face until they finish their prayers.”7

        This hadith is authentic and has been pronounced as such by al-Hafidh Ibn Hajar al-‘Asqalani,8 al-Hafidh al-‘Iraqi,9 Abu al-Hasan al-Maqdisi the Sheikh of al-Mundhiri,10 al-Hafidh al-Dumyati,11 and al-Hafidh al-Baghawi.12 The hadith indicates the permissibility of making tawassul to God through good deeds, namely the person walking to the mosque in a state of ritual purity, and by those who ask.


        4) The hadith of Anas when Fatimah bint Asad Umm Ali died. It is a long hadith and at the end it says, “and he said, O God who gives life and death, and who is the living who never dies, forgive my mother Fatimah bint Asad. Recite her proofs to her and make her entranceway wide by Your Prophet and the prophets before me. Verily You are the Most Merciful of the Merciful.”13

        There is some discussion concerning the people in this hadith’s chain of transmission because it contains Ruh ibn Salah. Ibn Hibban considered him trustworthy, but Ibn al-Jawzi numbered him amongst those whose identities are unknown. On this basis there is difference of opinion concerning the hadith’s authenticity or lack thereof and its being attributed to the Prophet. Its meaning, however, is correct and it is supported by the authentic hadiths that have proceeded.


        5) The tawassul of Adam through our Prophet to ask for forgiveness. In the hadith of Umar ibn al-Khatab the Prophet said, “When Adam committed the sin he said, ‘O Lord, I ask You by Muhammad to forgive me.’ God said, ‘Adam, how did you know about Muhammad although I have not created him.’ Adam said, ‘Because when You created me with your hands and blew into me from Your Spirit, I raised my head and saw written on the pillars of Your throne, ‘There is no god but God, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God,’’ God said, ‘You speak truthfully Adam, he is the most beloved of creation unto Me. You supplicated to Me by him so I have forgiven you. If not for Muhammad, I would not have created you.”14

        Al-Hakim ruled that this hadith is authentic saying, “This hadith’s chain of transmission is authentic, and it is the first hadith that I mentioned to Abd al-Rahman ibn Zayd ibn Aslam in this book.”15 When he mentioned the story of Adam in his book Stories of the Prophets (Qisas al-Anbiya’) al-Hafidh Ibn Kathir said that it was false. Al-Hafidh al-Dhahabi exaggerated when he ruled that it is a fabrication due to the fact that Abd al-Rahman is in its chain of transmission. Abd al-Rahman is not a liar, nor is he accused, rather he is merely weak, and the likes of him do not make a hadith a fabrication. The most that could happen is that it would be weak. In any case we mention the difference between the hadith scholars out of a sense of academic duty. The hadith, if it is authentic, includes clear evidence that it is permissible to make tawassul through the Prophet in supplication. As for what may be unclear at the end of the hadith, namely the statement, “If not for Muhammad, I would not have created you,” I clarified it’s meaning in the answer to question 36.


        6) The hadith that says, “Assist me servants of God.”: According to Ibn Abbas the Prophet said, “God has angels on the earth other than the guardian angels who record the seeds that fall from trees. If one of you is afflicted by lameness in a deserted place he should call out, ‘Assist me servants of God.”16

        Concerning its chain of transmission al-Hafidh al-Haythami said, “It was related by al-Tabarani, and its narrators are trustworthy.17 The hadith contains evidence for seeking the aid of beings that we cannot see like angels and that God has caused to be an aid for us, and we may make tawassul through them to our Lord in order to achieve that end. It is not farfetched to make an analogy between the angels and the spirits of the righteous for they are bodies of light that remain in our world.


        7) The story of praying for rain through the Prophet by his grave during the rule of Umar. According to Malik al-Dar, who was Umar’s treasurer, “People were afflicted with a drought during the reign of Umar. A man went to the grave of the Prophet ad said, ‘O Messenger of God, pray for rain on behalf of your community for they have been destroyed. The Messenger of God came to him in a dream and said, ‘Go to Umar and greet him with peace from me. Inform him that they are irrigating. Tell him to appoint the intelligent wise.’18 The man went to Umar and told him. Umar said, ‘O Lord, I will spare no effort in my capacity”19

        This is an authentic hadith authenticated by al-Hafidh Ibn Hajar who said, “Ibn Abu Shaybah related, with an authentic chain of transmission from the narration of Ibu Salih al-Samman according to Malik al-Dar that, “People were afflicted with a drought during the reign of Umar. A man went to the grave of the Prophet and said, ‘O Messenger of God, pray for rain on behalf of your community for they have been destroyed.’ The Messenger of God came to him in a dream and said, ‘Go to Umar… And in al-Futuh Sayf narrated that the person who had the dream was one of the Companions, Bilal ibn al-Harith al-Muzani.”20 This narration was also mentioned by al-Hafidh Ibn Kathir who said, “This chain of transmission is authentic.21 The hadith has been authenticated by major scholars of hadith, so it is acceptable as evidence for the permissibility of asking the Prophet in a prayer for rain and supplication after his noble passing.


        8) The story of the Caliph al-Mansur with Imam Malik: When the second Abbasid Caliph Abu Ja’far al-Mansur al-Abbasi, asked Malik, “O Abd Allah, should I face the Messenger of God and supplicate or should I face the qiblah and supplicate?” Malik told him, “Why would you turn your face away from him when he is your connection (wasilah) to God and the connection of your father Adam until the Day of Judgement? Face him and seek his intercession, and God will make him an interceder [for you].”22

        This contains a sign that Malik took the hadith of Adam’s tawassul into consideration, and that he considered it a good thing to face the grave of the Prophet and seek his intercession.



        Due to all of this authentic and explicit evidence from the Quran and the Sunna, the scholars of the community, from the four schools and others, have formed a consensus concerning the permissibility and preferability of making tawassul through the Prophet during his lifetime and after his passing, and they agreed that this is not impermissible at all. We consider making tawassul through the Prophet to be preferable (mustahab) and that it is one of the formulations of supplication to God that are encouraged (mandub). No consideration is given to those who break with the consensus of the scholars like Ibn Taymiyah and those who repeat his words after him.
        Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 13-03-21, 06:59 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

          Could mean... there are different meanings?

          This still doesn't make sense and actually seems disrespectful. It's name-dropping like you would appeal to someone using 'emotional blackmail'. It doesn't seem like the one making the dua is repentant.

          Also, is this even intercession? It's simply a name drop... there is no intercessor or appeal for intercession in the wording.
          not sure how you came to the conclusion that its name dropping or emotional blackmail?

          i mean ive seen talks where its recommend to 'nag' Allah swt
          here is an example of bilal assad saying nag Allah and the more you nag Allah swt the more Allah swt lurves it
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU3x...hannel=Fathima

          for a start what is your opinion on 'nagging' Allah swt? also how is nagging any different to saying what Abu Sulayman said in the quote below

          O my Lord forgive me for the sake of your Prophet"

          Comment


          • Lol ...

            Comment


            • Emotional blackmail

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Fais
                Emotional blackmail
                Lool 😂😂😂

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
                  Taken from Dar Al-Ifta al-Misriyya (I edited some things):


                  Supplication through the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ (al-tawassul)



                  One of the concepts within Islam that has been misunderstood in the modern age is the concept of tawassul. We need to return to the original linguistic and legal meanings of this term before we can discuss the ruling of making tawassul through the Prophet.

                  The linguistic and legal meaning of a go-between (wasilah): Linguistically, al-wasilah is a rank with the king and nearness. Someone acts as a go-between with God for someone if they do something that draws them closer to Him. The wasil is the one who desires God. The poet Labid said:

                  I see people unaware of their worth,
                  In fact, all who have an opinion are desirous (wasil) of God.


                  Someone tawassala to someone else with a wasilah if they draw closer to them by some act or another. He tawassala to him with such and such, meaning he drew closer to him with the sanctity of a bond that makes him endeared. Al-wasilah is a connection, and nearness.

                  The legal meaning of al-wasilah does not depart from this linguistic definition. The main concern of a Muslim's life is to draw near to God and attain His pleasure and reward. Part of God's mercy to us is that He has given us acts of worship and opened the door of being near to Him. Muslims draw near to God with all of the different means for doing so that God has legislated. When Muslims pray they are drawing near to God in their prayer, meaning they reach to God (yatawassal) with their prayer. Based on this, the Quran commands us, in its entirety, to seek nearness to God (wasilah).

                  God mentions al-wasilah in the Quran in two places. The first is when He commands it saying, O ye who believe! Be mindful of your duty to God, and seek the way of approach unto Him [al-wasilah] (5:35). The second is when God praises those who seek to draw near to him through their supplications, Those unto whom they cry seek the way of approach [al-wasilah] to their Lord, which of them shall be the nearest; they hope for His mercy and they fear His doom. Lo! the doom of thy Lord is to be shunned (17:57).

                  The four schools of Sunni jurisprudence are in agreement concerning the permissibility and even the preferability of making tawassul through the Prophet, and they make no distinction between his life and after his passing. The only person who differed (shadhdha) is Ibn Taymiyah, who claimed that there is a distinction between making tawassul through the Prophet during his life and after his passing, but his lone opinion (shudhudh) has no weight.
                  We call upon the community to hold fast to that upon which its great Imams have agreed. The verse from the Quran that states, And if, when they had wronged themselves, they had but come to you and asked forgiveness of God, and asked forgiveness of the messenger, they would have found God Forgiving, Merciful (4:64), remains true after the passing of the Prophet. In another research, we related that which affirms the preferability of making tawassul through the Prophet and asking him to seek forgiveness on one's behalf. In what follows we will mention the evidence from the Quran and the sunna upon which the consensus of the four schools relied.




                  Firstly, the evidence from the Quran:

                  1) O ye who believe! Be mindful of your duty to God, and seek the way of approach unto Him, and strive in His way in order that ye may succeed (5:35).


                  2) Those unto whom they cry seek the way of approach to their Lord, which of them shall be the nearest; they hope for His mercy and they fear His doom. Lo! the doom of thy Lord is to be shunned (17:57).


                  3) And if, when they had wronged themselves, they had but come to you and asked forgiveness of God, and asked forgiveness of the messenger, they would have found God Forgiving, Merciful (4:64).

                  The first verse commands the believers to draw near to God with all the various means of drawing near to Him, and making tawassul through the Prophet in supplication is one of the means of drawing near to God, which will be established in detail when we discuss the evidence from the sunna. There is nothing to indicate that this verse refers to one particular wasilah as opposed to another. The command here is general and applies to all forms of wasilah by which God is pleased. Supplication is an act of worship that is accepted as long as it is not for familial ties to be severed, or something that is sinful, and as long as it is not comprised of phrases that are in contradiction with theological principles and the fundamentals of Islam.

                  In the second verse God praises those believers who have responded to Him and drawn closer to him by means of the wasilah of supplication. We will show how Muslims are to make tawassul to God in their supplications from the sunna.

                  In the third verse God clearly calls upon believers to go to the Prophet and to seek forgiveness of God in his presence stating that their repentance is more likely to be accepted in this way. This verse still holds true.



                  Evidence from the Sunna:

                  1) According to Uthman ibn Hunaif, a blind man came to the Prophet and said, "Ask God to cure me." The Prophet said, "If you like you can be patient [i.e. and suffer your blindness] for that would be better for you." The blind man said, "Ask Him." So the Prophet told him to make ablutions well and to say this supplication, "O God, I ask You, and I turn to You through Your prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad, I have turned to my Lord through you concerning this need of mine so that it may be taken care of. O God, let him intercede on my behalf."1

                  Both al-Hakim and al-Tirmidhi ruled that this hadith is authentic, and we do not know of anyone who has ruled that it is weak in the modern period among those known for being stern (tashadud); Sheikh al-Albani ruled that it is authentic.2 Nobody objects to this hadith, neither to its chain of transmission, nor to its body. This hadith is evidence for the preferability of this formulation in supplication since the Prophet taught it to one of his companions. God made the miracle of His prophet known by accepting the prayer of the blind man in the very same seating (majlis).

                  In reality we should not have to relate this story of the hadith that occurred during the reign of Uthman ibn Affan in order to provide evidence for the permissibility of using this formulation in supplication after the Prophet's passing. If the Prophet taught one of his companions a formula for supplication, and it is transmitted to us with a sound (sahih) chain, that is evidence for the preferability of using this supplications at all times until God inherits the earth and all who are upon it. There is nothing to make this particular for that companion only, or to restrict it to the Prophet's lifetime. The basis of legal rulings is that they are absolute and general unless a particularization or restriction has been established in its regard...
                  A couple of things wrong here.

                  1. The hadeeth is not general as already discussed

                  2. How on earth can the hadeeth be evidence of not just permissibility but 'preferability' when the messenger of Allah clearly states that patience is better than intercession? Preferable over what?!

                  I won't even go into the usage of the term 'God' in this article.

                  More later...

                  Comment


                  • AA al-UFi, no one is interested in your personal opinions. You are not a Faqih nor even near to it, so stop acting so boldly.
                    You clearly lack the tools and the sciences and you're just embarrassing yourself with this behavior.

                    ​​​​​Either refer to classical scholars (other than Ibn Taymiyya and his known followers, because their position was already mentioned) or stay silent.
                    ​​​​​

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
                      AA al-UFi, no one is interested in your personal opinions. You are not a Faqih nor even near to it, so stop acting so boldly.
                      You clearly lack the tools and the sciences and you're just embarrassing yourself with this behavior.

                      ​​​​​Either refer to classical scholars (other than Ibn Taymiyya and his known followers, because their position was already mentioned) or stay silent.
                      ​​​​​
                      Right, so according to the messenger of Allah in that hadeeth, it is preferable to seek intercession than it is to be patient despite the clear wording?

                      Like I said, if you are simply making taqleed then don't discuss!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post


                        More later...
                        Oh no ... Brace yourself.

                        Comment


                        • I cant help but think why are you being so persistant?
                          Why would someone keep posting and posting for months over the same subject? There are other subjects that the ummah would benefit more if we were so persistant.
                          This is very dangerous in my opinion as it can slowly change the niyah and lead to shirk.If anybody wants the intercession of Muhamad saws then it is very easy to do it.You know the duaa you have to say after adhan.No need to make duaa to Mohamed saws or ask him at the same time one asks Allah.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Predatorian View Post
                            I cant help but think why are you being so persistant?
                            Why would someone keep posting and posting for months over the same subject? There are other subjects that the ummah would benefit more if we were so persistant.
                            This is very dangerous in my opinion as it can slowly change the niyah and lead to shirk.If anybody wants the intercession of Muhamad saws then it is very easy to do it.You know the duaa you have to say after adhan.No need to make duaa to Mohamed saws or ask him at the same time one asks Allah.
                            i agree in a sense and ive already told brothee Abu Sulayman that he needs to relax a bit and not go overboard but some of his threads and posts have been very benficial for some of us but like you say i agree everything in moderation is better

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Predatorian View Post
                              I cant help but think why are you being so persistant?
                              Why would someone keep posting and posting for months over the same subject? There are other subjects that the ummah would benefit more if we were so persistant.
                              This is very dangerous in my opinion as it can slowly change the niyah and lead to shirk.If anybody wants the intercession of Muhamad saws then it is very easy to do it.You know the duaa you have to say after adhan.No need to make duaa to Mohamed saws or ask him at the same time one asks Allah.
                              He is passionate about the truth. It is the Sunnah. The hadith is authentic. Yet people like you want to call it shirk, la hawla wala quwwa ta billah. It is because of people like you that he has given a detailed explanation of this subject.

                              You do realize that a group of deviant Muslims killed many Muslims based on these false accusation of shirk. You do realize that this same group of Muslim made takfir on the Ummah of Muhammad. This group was founded by a guy from Najd Saudi Arabia. And the Prophet (saw) warned us about Najd.

                              And the Messenger of Allah, (saw) warned us about Nadj.

                              The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "O Allah! Bless our Sham and our Yemen." People said, "Our Najd as well." The Prophet again said, "O Allah! Bless our Sham and Yemen." They said again, "Our Najd as well." On that the Prophet said, "There will appear earthquakes and afflictions, and from there will come out the side of the head of Satan." (Bukhari)

                              This same guy accused the Ummah of Shirk, made takfir on them, even on the people of Mecca and Medinah, contradicted the prophetic hadiths.

                              The Messenger of Allah said, "I am not afraid that you would associate anything with Allah (shirk) after me, but I am afraid that you may be (allured) by the world". (Muslim)

                              This guy name is Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab, and his group is known as the Wahabis, in modern time they refer to themselves as Salafis.

                              And the Wahabis killed thousands of Muslims because of the philosophy of Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab. Yes, they are Muslim killers. The Wahabis preferred the philosophy over the Hadith. They preferred philosophy over deen. Some of the followers of Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab, will argue, well, not everything from Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab is bad, I mean, look at the Three Principles by Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab. Traces of that innovation is in that book.

                              Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab said, "Hijrah is migrating from the land of shirk to the land of Islam. Hijrah from the land of shirk to the land of Islam is an obligation upon this ummah and it continues until the Last Hour...." (the Three Principles)

                              If you reflect on this statement and what it entails. This book was written for the People of Mecca and Medinah, Muslims. He was calling Mecca and Medinah the land of shirk, and he was calling Nadj, the land of Islam.

                              The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "Shaytaan has lost all hope in anyone praying to idols in the Arabian Peninsula, but there are small sins amongst them.' ((Muslim). Shirk will no longer be an issue in the Hijaz.

                              The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "Madinah is like the kiln of the stove, burning out whatever filth is in it and putting in its place the goodness of Madinah." (Muslim). Yet, Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab equated it to the land of shirk. You see Madinah is purifying.

                              The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, "At the gates of Madinah stand guarding angels. Neither pestilence nor the False Messiah shall enter the city." (Muslim). Yet, Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab equated it to the land of shirk.

                              And Allah knows best.
                              My Blog ---> Reflections of the Traveler http://baraka.wordpress.com

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                                Right, so according to the messenger of Allah in that hadeeth, it is preferable to seek intercession than it is to be patient despite the clear wording?
                                Please read the Hadith properly and then you'll see your mistake. You read just one part of it, while disregarding the rest of it.

                                The man complained regarding his eyesight and our noble Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) told him that he could pray for him and that it's better if we would have patience.
                                Since the man couldn't bare it anymore, he said to our noble that he (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) should pray for him.

                                What did then happen? It's nowhere mentioned in the Hadith that our noble Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) actually prayed for him.
                                What is rather mentioned is that he (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) told him to do ablution, then pray two cycles and then supplicate to his Lord subhanahu wa ta'ala while using him (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) as a Wasila in it.
                                Now THIS is also what is better than what he was asking for!
                                ​​​​​
                                ​​​​​
                                ​​​​​​Imam Ibn Hajar al-Haytami (d. 974 AH) stated in his al-Jawhar al-Munazzam (longer quote posted HERE):

                                وإنما علمه النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ذلك ولم يدع له لأنه أراد أن يحصل منه التوجه وبذل الافتقار والانكسار والاضطرار مستغيثاً به صلى الله عليه وسلم ليحصل له كمال مقصوده ، وهذا المعنى حاصل في حياته وبعد وفاته صلى الله عليه وسلم ، ومن ثم استعمل السلف هذا الدعاء في حاجاتهم بعد موته صلى الله عليه وسلم ، وقد علمه عثمان بن حنيف الصحابي

                                The Prophet teached him that but did not supplicate for him, because he desired to achieve from him concentration and the toil of poverty, brokenness and desperation, seeking istighātha through him ﷺ, so as to attain for him the perfection of his objective. And such an implication is attainable in his life and after his death ﷺ; and therefore the Salaf have used this supplication in their needs after his death ﷺ.
                                `Uthmān ibn Hunayf taught it to a Sahābī...

                                - end of quote -
                                Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 14-03-21, 05:33 PM.

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